Palin - Being VP after two talks

[Brutha]

Without wanting to be judgemental, I don't understand why McCain picks someone as a VP who he talked two only two times beforehand.

Picking a VP seems to be one of the most important decisions that a president makes.
Considering that McCain won enough delegates for the nomination a while ago I would assume that he spends a bit of time after that point talking to his potential VP picks on a weekly basis to get to know them better.
Say investing 1 hour each for ten potential candidats.

I don't want this thread to turn into a pro or against Palin/McCain-thread.
Can somebody explain to me the reasoning for investing so little time into picking a VP?
It's not like McCain remembered two weeks ago: "Gosh, I had totally forget that VP thingy in the last year, I so let me quickly take a look at the available persons." isn't it?

[Angela]

My feeling is that John McCain had very little to do with that decision.

[coollikeme]

Its hard to know everyone in your party. So he listens to the suggestions from his team. Then McCain makes the final decision. It not necessary to know your Vice President at the time, because you have to find the right person that fits in to your strategy. When the time is right.

[surferboy]

Without wanting to be judgemental, I don't understand why McCain picks someone as a VP who he talked two only two times beforehand.

Barcs

You don't understand why McCain picked Palin? Are you serious? Maybe he picked her because it will get him the presidency. Haven't you seen what is happening? Obama can't stop talking about her, and she is the VP pick!!!!!! When people talk about her experience, almost immediately they start thinking about Obama's experience or lack there of. There has literally been a 20 percent shift favoring McCain among white women. There has been a huge shift towards McCain from Hillary supporters (even a little shift in McCain's directions from Hillary is golden for the Maverick.) I'm not saying that this is right or even that this is what I want to happen. It's just a fact. Barcs, we know you are a smart man, talk to us and not through us. You know why McCain picked Palin, whether moral or immoral, for VOTES!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by surferboy

Barcs

OOOPS! Surferboy, you've got a bad case of mistaken identity!

I think maybe McCain agreed to Palin because he's just an exhausted old man who is sick and tired of being the puppet of the republican machine, but he's caught up in the running-for-president game and really, how does an exhausted old man get himself out of a fix like this?! He agrees to take on this hot young(ish) "not flat busted" babe whom he's pretty sure the country would never be willing to take on as president when he croaks. This lets him off the hook with at least some small amount of dignity, and he can get back to a life he's suited for: golf with George, canoodling with that thin angry woman with the nice wardrobe, reminiscing about the old war days.

It's a win-win situation!

[surferboy]

I think maybe McCain agreed to Palin because he's just an exhausted old man who is sick and tired of being the puppet of the republican machine, but he's caught up in the running-for-president game and really, how does an exhausted old man get himself out of a fix like this?! He agrees to take on this hot young(ish) "not flat busted" babe whom he's pretty sure the country would never be willing to take on as president when he croaks. This lets him off the hook with at least some small amount of dignity, and he can get back to a life he's suited for: golf with George, canoodling with that thin angry woman with the nice wardrobe, reminiscing about the old war days.

Angela

McCain is in his early 70s, why do you assume he will die within 8 years? He has the best healthcare in world. Why do you assume he is sick? Skin cancer is nothing. Hell I had a small touch of skin cancer in my 20s. Why do you bring up Sarah Palin's looks and the fact that she is a woman? She has just as much experience as Obama and she is only running for VP. Your statistics are just wrong. McCain gained points when he added Palin. You need to ask yourself if you questioned John Kerry when he put John Edwards on the ticket in 04. John Edwards was only a Senator for 2 years and he wasn't even going to win his seat in the Senate in NC if he were to run again. If you didn't question this choice of Kerry then you are being more like a robot or just voting for a Democrat just because your parents or friends always voted for a Democrat.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by surferboy

Angela

McCain is in his early 70s, why do you assume he will die within 8 years? He has the best healthcare in world. Why do you assume he is sick? Skin cancer is nothing. Why do you bring up Sarah Palin's looks and the fact that he is a woman? She has just as much experience as Obama and she is only running for VP. Your statistics are just wrong. McCain gained points when he added Palin. You need to ask yourself if you questioned John Kerry when he put John Edwards on the ticket in 04. John Edwards was only a Senator for 2 years and he wasn't even going to win his seat in the Senate in NC if he were to run again. If you didn't question this choice of Kerry then you are being more like a robot or just voting for a Democrat just because your parents or friends always voted for a Democrat.

Surferboy, I'm afraid you undermined your own credibility by
a) calling the OP by the wrong name (observational skills? )
b) referring to Palin as "he" (which actually you might be right about)
c) telling me my statistics are wrong (I didn't quote any statistics! )
d) reading things in to my post that I didn't say.

d.1) I didn't say John McCain would die within 8 years, or that he's sick -- I said he's an old exhausted man who is sick and tired (of being the puppet of the republican machine). It's his strategy, surferboy! He doesn't plan to die!

d.2) Sarah Palin's looks are part of the strategy -- let's face it, he is hot, in a sort of "why Miss Palin, you're Beautiful!" - take down your hair and remove your glasses sort of way. He's a beauty queen! And proud of his not flat bust! You can't be a breast-proud beauty queen and not expect things to come up (sorry) during a campaign! That would be like getting breast implants and expecting everyone to stick to eye contact.

oh, yeah and

e) you are living in the past, and making assumptions about moi! How do you know I was even a U.S. citizen during the '04 election? You don't, that's how!

[Patty]

I agree with Angela, that McCain had little to do with his VP pick decision.
Recalling the '04 race, the Republican strategy was to attack their opponent's strength. They attacked Kerry's war record. Going back further, when Bush was running for his first term as Governor, they attacked Anne Richardson's strong-female persona by insinuating that she was a lesbian. Sadly, these Rovian tactics worked in the past. With Palin's image, they are taking the young, fresh, exciting factor of Obama's candidacy and spinning it around so that the Dem campaign cannot criticize something that is his presumed weakness: lack of experience. Very mind bending, yet a clear pattern if you stop and think about it. I smell Rove in this VP pick. I like to think that Americans have smartened up since then and can see a political maneuver for what it is and, hopefully, will take it for the insult to our intelligence that it is! This is a serious thing - to pick someone for pure media, political reasons and to hell with the best way to tackle our country's needs once the office is claimed.

[Brutha]

It not necessary to know your Vice President at the time, because you have to find the right person that fits in to your strategy.

To find the right person you have to search by talking your strategy through with different persons.
I don't think that I know after two talks with a person whether that person would want to follow the same strategy that I am.
I would want to talk with the potential candidates a lot about every issue to make sure that they have the same or similar opinions or at least would want to share my strategy. I don't see how you can do that in two talks.

You don't understand why McCain picked Palin? Are you serious? Maybe he picked her because it will get him the presidency.

Not exactly. I don't understand why he didn't go through a good process and planed ahead.

If he would have known four month ago that Palin would be his VP he could have made different choices in his campain and the way he framed the debate.
From a strategic perspective it doesn't make sense to decide (or seek information to make the decision by talking to potential candidats) something like that within one or two weeks before the convention if you know long before that you have to make the choice.

So that leaves two choices:
1) McCain is simply unqualified to do personal decisions, because he doesn't think in advance about them or doesn't invest a significant amount of time into making good decisions in that field.
Making good personal decisions is one of the most important things that a president has to make, so it would be very bad for McCain if he is bad in that area. He didn't even lie about having talked more to her, which he could have to prevent that perception from forming.
2) He didn't made the decision.

2) seems to be a more plausible explantion at the moment, but it also doesn't look good for him.

[Thur]

I guess I'm an bit of an outsider in this discussion, since I'm from the Netherlands and not really into the American system but here's my thoughts:

First of all I think the choice for Palin was a choice from a marketeer's point of view (Same as Obama's choice for Biden). They all expect their flaws to be covered by the good points of their running mates. Once they're installed as president no one (at least not abroad) looks at the VP. The president is responsible for the image of the USA.

Secondly there's too much money involved. Since religious (christian) organisations seem to be wealthy in the USA, it's important to have them covering your back. A choice like Palin helps a lot in this perspective.

This opinion might seem a bit short-sighted to you, so I'd really like to see your comments.

[Brutha]

First of all I think the choice for Palin was a choice from a marketeer's point of view (Same as Obama's choice for Biden).

It's not about whether Palin is good or isn't, it's about McCain not having spend enough time to judge whether she is.

[Angela]

I don't think McCain has the intellectual capacity or education to even ask the right questions for an interview with a prospective vp candidate. That's why I don't believe he chose her. My very strong feeling is that she was chosen for him by the RWMC that has been running this administration. Perhaps they allowed McCain to voice his opinion, but that was just a nicety.

One of the things I like least was put on display yesterday during the Charlie interview, when he asked her about the Bush Doctrine and it was clear that she had no idea what the Bush Doctrine is. I don't care about that, but as she has done in other instances when she's caught with her pants down, she bs's and blusters her way through her own darkness.

The other thing I really, really don't like about her and her cohort is that their way of dealing with being caught in a lie or inconsistency is to simply repeat the lie or inconsistency over and over again, apparently with the intention of getting people to buy their crap simply by bludgeoning them with it.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Angela

My feeling is that John McCain had very little to do with that decision.

That's it.

[coollikeme]

seems to be working. He leads in the polls, so to me it sounds like a lot of people agree with his decision. 70% of the people in the USA want to drill for oil. So who better to pick then a VP that lives in one of the most important energy state in the world. Who would understand Alaska better the Palin, also it shows that McCain is showing that he can change. To me and his new found voters. That sounds like real change to me. So Palin did not know the Bush doctrine, I think its better she does not know. This way you come in with fresh eyes and your own thoughts. Not knowing the Bush doctrine is another way of change. If you so-called Bush haters really wanted change then wouldn't getting rid of the Bush doctrine or not knowing it better? Sounds like a great decision by McCain no matter who made it..

[Angela]

Originally Posted by coollikeme

So Palin did not know the Bush doctrine, I think its better she does not know. This way you come in with fresh eyes and your own thoughts.

So, you think it's better if our vice president is ignorant of what came before her?

[Brutha]

McCain is showing that he can change.

The problem with that idea is that I want a leader that thinks about changing before he actually changes.
Decisions like that shouldn't be made in short time frames but thought out before the are made.

In addition changing in a direction where one can count on heavy campain donations from the oil lobby isn't necessarly a sign that someone knows how to change his position in a good way.

Not knowing the Bush doctrine is another way of change. If you so-called Bush haters really wanted change then wouldn't getting rid of the Bush doctrine or not knowing it better?

Ignorance isn't bliss.
A politican needs to understand a variety of different way of making politics to gain a perspective that allows making good decisions.

[coollikeme]

what the people want. Ask the voters check out the polls, Its working. Obama does what the left wants, and in the end that is why he will lose. Also not picking Hillary was a bad move. This is coming from a person that didn't like Hillary, That was a bad move!!!! If Palin didn't no the doctrine at the time, its really no big deal, she can learn it later. Most people Understand that. Also it was a tricky way it was asked by a Obama a** kissing TV analysis, from a left leaning station most voters can figure that out. I am tired of the Dems going out of there way to attack women candidates. From what, it looks like to me. specially after picking Biden before Hillary is that the left is in control, not Obama.

[Brutha]

Also not picking Hillary was a bad move.

After the way Hillary run the end of her campain working together with her would have been difficult for Obama.
Giving political power to your opponents in your own party is problematic.

It would also publically put the focus again on the differences between the policy ideas of the two and Hillary would have had to explain in the press why Obamas are better.
Altanativly Obama could move a few of his position in the direction of Hillary. That's all problematic.

I can understand that strategic choice to not go with Hillary.

Being populistic and picking Hillary might also have advantages but I respect the judgement that those advantages aren't greater than the cost.

On a purely strategic side the problem with picking someone like Palin who doesn't know about the Bush doctrine is that there will probably a lot of more embarasing mistakes in interviews from now on till the election.

That's political gambling.

Biden on the other hand is professional enough to not say anything that distracts from Obamas message.
I don't like the Biden choice on political grounds but I understand it on a strategic level.

specially after picking Biden before Hillary is that the left is in control

Why do you think that the left prefers Biden over Hillary?