Monsanto "Terminator" seeds mean you can't save seeds for next year

[schola]

Monsanto has developed genetically engineered seeds that make second generation plants sterile. This means farmers can't save seeds from their crops for next year's planting; an integral part of farming since Mesopotamia.

The call them "terminator" seeds, because they terminate the reproductive genes of the plants in second generations seeds.

This means farmers that buy from Monsanto have to buy new seeds every year, raising costs for farmers and us.

Companies like Monsanto are aiming to control the food supply. In times where food riots are becoming increasingly common, how can something like this be legal?

Genetic use restriction technology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is so dangerous and immoral, and dangerous!

In India, farmers are committing suicide in huge numbers. This is due to the increasing costs of pesticides, fertilizers and seeds like these.

India's suicide-prone farmers go back to basics

Monsanto has not been shy about enforcing its "patents" on genetically engineered plants. (How the hell can one patent FOOD??)

Monsanto Sues Midwest Farmers for Saving Soybean Seeds

PILOT GROVE, Mo. | Soybean farmer David Brumback calls himself a loyal customer of Monsanto Co. His product of choice: genetically engineered seeds resistant to pesticides and weed killers.

So when the biotech giant named Brumback and more than 100 other local farmers in a subpoena seeking five years of sales records, his first reaction was befuddlement. Then anger.

"With Monsanto, you're guilty until you're proven innocent," he said.

What say you? Do you think this is a dangerous development? What can and should we do about it?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I was also told by my Anthropology teacher (several years ago, college course) that these seeds often blow over into other farmers' crops causing them problems. Many of them are organic, non-GMO farmers and this renders their livlihood useless (it's now contaminated basically).

But Monsanto is huge. What can we do about this directly?

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

But Monsanto is huge. What can we do about this directly?

Stop funding them.

Buy all organic. Organic foods cannot be GMO.

[Dan.Linehan]

Great post schola. Thanks.

Also check out, Seeds of Deception and The World According to Monsanto.

Crucial topic.

[schola]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I was also told by my Anthropology teacher (several years ago, college course) that these seeds often blow over into other farmers' crops causing them problems. Many of them are organic, non-GMO farmers and this renders their livlihood useless (it's now contaminated basically).

But Monsanto is huge. What can we do about this directly?

Funny you mention that. I just found this article after I posted the thread:
Monsanto Prevails in Patent Fight

In a 5-4 decision, the court sided with the biotech giant, which sued Percy Schmeiser in 1997 after Monsanto agents found the company's patented gene in canola plants on his farm near Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. The court agreed that he stole Monsanto's seed, even though Schmeiser maintained that he inadvertently used seed that had blown into his field.

Personally I will make sure I don't purchase any seeds or fertilizer from them for my garden.

I'm interested in getting heritage seeds. Organic. Not genetically modified. Supposedly the fruits and veggies from these seeds taste better too.

Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds - 1200 Heirloom Seed Varieties!

[schola]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Great post schola. Thanks. Also check out, Seeds of Deception and The World According to Monsanto.

Thanks. I will check this video out.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Stop funding them.

Buy all organic. Organic foods cannot be GMO.

Agreed. That extends to all the evil corporations and governments in our world. Stop funding them. Stop patronizing them. We have to refuse to play the game. Opt out of the system.

We can't really fight these people. That legitimizes what they are doing. That empowers them. When you fight against them, you accept their reality and play the game by their rules.

I post a lot about this type of stuff in this forum, but I don't want to scare people. Just enlighten them. We need to start opting out of this corrupt system. Take our power back. However that is different than ignoring the reality of this world all together, which I see a lot of people trying to do.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by schola

Monsanto has developed genetically engineered seeds that make second generation plants sterile.

This means farmers that buy from Monsanto have to buy new seeds every year, raising costs for farmers and us.

Companies like Monsanto are aiming to control the food supply. In times where food riots are becoming increasingly common, how can something like this be legal?

This is so dangerous and immoral, and dangerous!

Is the motivation of Monsanto to control the food supply or just to be able to sell their seeds every year to the farmers?

Monsantos seeds are typically superior and thats why farmers buy them. Its a free market and the farmers can buy their seeds from another company. The farmers are not forced to buy Monsantos seeds and its Monsantos right to make their seeds unreproducable.

[ogrekilleat]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

The farmers are not forced to buy Monsantos seeds and its Monsantos right to make their seeds unreproducable.

I would agree with you if and only if (1) plants didn't naturally propagate themselves to other locations (e.g. the fields of people who DIDN'T buy Monsanto seeds and do not want them AND (2) Monsanto was not able to collect "damages" from people whose fields are contaminated by Monsanto seeds.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

Monsantos seeds are typically superior and thats why farmers buy them.

I bet if you did more research you'd find this is far from true.

Again, check out Seeds of Deception.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

Is the motivation of Monsanto to control the food supply or just to be able to sell their seeds every year to the farmers?

I don't know their motivation. Do you?

Monsantos seeds are typically superior and thats why farmers buy them. Its a free market and the farmers can buy their seeds from another company. The farmers are not forced to buy Monsantos seeds and its Monsantos right to make their seeds unreproducable.

No it is not a free market. Who told you we have a free market in the United States? Companies like Monsanto collude with big government to enforce their monopolies.

Monsanto is enforcing its patents on people who didn't even purchase their seeds.
Epoch Times | Food Fights: Saskatchewan Farmer Tells of the Dangers of Bio-Tech Manipulation

Schmeiser's regionally adapted canola, which he had researched for 50 years, became contaminated with airborne pollen from fields containing Roundup Ready, one of Monsanto's product lines.

He took Monsanto all the way to Canada's Supreme Court after the agro-chemical company sued him for using its product without purchasing it. Schmeiser claimed he had never used the product. The Supreme Court found in Monsanto's favor because their Roundup Ready canola was protected by a patent.

Additionally their are a lot of free market economists who wouldn't necessarily support intellectual property laws in their current form today. Intangible property rights are a very fuzzy area:

Rethinking Patent Law - Gene Callahan - Mises Institute


How can a farmer buy seeds from somewhere else when Monsanto and a few other very large corporations have the market cornered?


Monsanto’s Monopoly Challenged in Munich : TreeHugger

Over the course of a single decade, Monsanto devoured dozens of seed companies (and their patents) to become the largest seed corporation in the world and the only soybean seed superpower. Back in 1996, Monsanto’s name didn’t even appear on ETC Group’s list of the world’s top 10 seed companies. Today, Monsanto tops the list and accounts for one-fifth of the global proprietary seed market. (See top 10 seed company list below.)

I agree that farmers should look somewhere else for their seeds but please don't be so flippant and assume that would be an easy switch to make.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by schola

I don't know their motivation. Do you?

Profit. The seeds have to be purchased every year and the farmers cannot harvest their own seeds.

Originally Posted by schola

No it is not a free market. Who told you we have a free market in the United States? Companies like Monsanto collude with big government to enforce their monopolies.

No the US is a free market for the most part however there are some industries that have monopolies. I am open to the idea that the gov't created a seed monopoly. Just give me a little evidence other than the seeds being infertile.

Originally Posted by schola

How can a farmer buy seeds from somewhere else when Monsanto and a few other very large corporations have the market cornered?

I have heard that Monsantos seeds yield bigger and more healthy crops. Is that true? If so then maybe the farmers are also buying Monsantos seeds because they are superior.

Just because Monsantos makes their seeds infertile doesn't necessarily mean that they are in on a conspiracy to control the world's food supply.

You said that I was flippant to assume that its easy to make a switch but maybe you're flippant that Monsantos is in on a food control conspiracy. I am not saying that they are not but I am saying that the motivation to make seeds infertile for profits is clear; any other accusation should be supported by some facts. Again, farmers have to buy seeds yearly from Monsantos and so therefore they keep a loyal customer. HP attempts to control consumer's ink cartridge purchases by not uniforming their cartridge supplies. Are they doing this for profit or are they in on a major conspiracy to control what the world's printing of documents and therefore control all future information? You see my point.

I will tell you how I'll believe that Monsantos is in on a world food conspiracy. Show me that private bankers who have a monopoly on the USD own a controlling share in Monsantos and I'll buy it. Quite frankly I don't know why more people are pissed that 13 private banks charge the US gov't interest on printing a fiat currency. Why do we pay interest to private banks in London, NY and Israel to print money for the US gov't? Why do they control our money supply, this is beyond understanding ?!

[Lauxa]

problem: Big corporations trying to control the genetics of the food supply
solution: "Open source" plant breeding

A new approach to plant breeding | Open Plant Breeding Foundation

But obviously you can't try to implement this until you are willing to become a farmer. Unless you are willing to take an active hand, all you can do is to support organic farmers, if you can afford it.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

Profit. The seeds have to be purchased every year and the farmers cannot harvest their own seeds.

Being the only source for farmers to buy seeds from, i.e. controlling the food supply, would result in a hefty profit for a corporation like Monsanto. That is reason enough to attempt this feat. I believe there are more sinister intentions as well.

No the US is a free market for the most part however there are some industries that have monopolies. I am open to the idea that the gov't created a seed monopoly. Just give me a little evidence other than the seeds being infertile.

The US has a free-er market than most European countries, which are basically socialist states. But we do not live in a free market. Not even close. Realize that you are on the opposite side of the fence from Austrian economists like Murray Rothbard and Nobel Prize winner Friedrich Hayek. The Austrians are the authorities on free market economics. They hugely critical of government economic policies in America and would never say we have a free market.

You can't have a free market and a huge government. It's impossible. Monopolies are a direct result of big government, StillGrowing. Big government stifles competition through heavy taxes and regulations.

I have heard that Monsantos seeds yield bigger and more healthy crops. Is that true? If so then maybe the farmers are also buying Monsantos seeds because they are superior.

I don't know. Does it matter? If you can't get your seeds from any place else it doesn't matter.

You said that I was flippant to assume that its easy to make a switch but maybe you're flippant that Monsantos is in on a food control conspiracy. I am not saying that they are not but I am saying that the motivation to make seeds infertile for profits is clear; any other accusation should be supported by some facts. Again, farmers have to buy seeds yearly from Monsantos and so therefore they keep a loyal customer. HP attempts to control consumer's ink cartridge purchases by not uniforming their cartridge supplies. Are they doing this for profit or are they in on a major conspiracy to control what the world's printing of documents and therefore control all future information? You see my point.

It is in every corporation's nature to get as large a market share as possible. (Side note: That is impossible without big government. Monopolies hardly ever form in a truly free market, but that is irrelevant to this issue.)

Controlling the supply of a product is a monopoly. What was Rockefeller attempting to do with his monopoly on oil in the early 1900s? Was he not attempting to control the supply of oil in the United States? That is a corporation's nature. That doesn't mean corporations are bad. It is what they do.

Whether genetically modified crops are better or not, well that depends on who you ask right? Do you believe the USDA or FDA, which have members who worked for the Monsanto corporation are going to bad mouth their former employer? Are they really going to look into the possible dangers of these crops?

Do you trust the corporately funded studies that say these plants are safe?

Farmers have to use these GM seeds because they can't compete in the market without them. That is the reason organic costs so much more. So in the end, it is up to us, the consumer to make the right choices, not the farmer.
Monsanto and the Roundup Ready Controversy - SourceWatch

I will tell you how I'll believe that Monsantos is in on a world food conspiracy. Show me that private bankers who have a monopoly on the USD own a controlling share in Monsantos and I'll buy it.

Good question. That is an interesting idea that I hadn't thought of. Turns out the Rockefeller Foundation (as in the mega-rich banking and oil family) works very closely with Monsanto and funds Monsanto's research.

In 1999 the Rockefeller Foundation told Monsanto to stop research on a terminator gene because of the PR fall-out. Monsanto listened. Does this prove how much sway they have over the company? Monsanto later bought the technology from someone else of course.
And what do ya know? The Rockefeller Foundation has a huge interest in 3rd world agriculture.
The Rockefeller Foundation - Agriculture (East Africa)

Quite frankly I don't know why more people are pissed that 13 private banks charge the US gov't interest on printing a fiat currency. Why do we pay interest to private banks in London, NY and Israel to print money for the US gov't? Why do they control our money supply, this is beyond understanding ?!

Agreed. I've done my research. I know how the international bankers truly run the show. We're on the same side man.

I just want to show how this cabal of international bankers control other things besides the money supply. They control everything. Government. Multinational corporations. The media. They are obviously attempting to control the food supply.

We're marching towards one world government and this is just one of the many ways they are implementing it.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

But obviously you can't try to implement this until you are willing to become a farmer. Unless you are willing to take an active hand, all you can do is to support organic farmers, if you can afford it.

If there is no market for it, they won't grow it. So yes, buy organic. We consumers have all the power.

Cool website by the way. I like how the Open Source movement has shifted into the real world.

[Still Growing]

Schola,
After my post I did some research on Monsantos. Wow I had no idea what kind of company I was defending. Here's a list of some of the products they have brought to market.

1. saccharin
2. caffenine. Introduced it to Coke to create addicted consumers.
3. Nutra sweet
4. Assisted with development of first nuclear weapon
5. Ammonium nitrate
6. Agent Orange

It would seem that Monsantos has a long history of producing products that control or create addictions over the US population.

Furthermore I trust no company that has affiliations with the Rockefellers. Their entire premise of business is to control the sheep. Some famous Rockefeller quotes.

1. Competition is a sin.
2. I always tried to turn every disaster into an opportunity. I think he was referring to other's disaster.
3. I do not think that there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcomes almost everything, even nature.
4. I would rather earn 1% off a 100 people's efforts than 100% of my own efforts.
5. The way to make money is to buy when blood is running in the streets.
6. "You know, gentlemen, that I do not owe any personal income tax. But nevertheless, I send a small check, now and then, to the Internal Revenue Service out of the kindness of my heart."
7. "The end goal is to get everybody chipped, to control the whole society, to have the bankers and the elite people control the world."
8. This present window of opportunity, during which a truly peaceful and interdependent world order might be built, will not be open for too long - We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.
9. Bilderberger Meeting: The world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government
10. My congratulations on the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the October Revolution.
11. Everything is in place - after 500 years - to build a true 'new world' in the Western Hemisphere." And what happens if we don't pass NAFTA? "I truly don't think that 'criminal' would be too strong a word" for "rejecting NAFTA.

If you listen carefully to people they will tell you their exact plans even if its not in their interest to do so.

[Brutha]

No the US is a free market for the most part however there are some industries that have monopolies. I am open to the idea that the gov't created a seed monopoly. Just give me a little evidence other than the seeds being infertile.

They patent some genes in their plants.
A patent is a government guarenteed monopol for a certain thing.

Genes already exist in nature and a company that patents a gen only does the job of figuring out what the gen does, but doesn't really have to create a new gen.

There are also problems with loss of diversity amoung crops through gen manipulated seeds.
That makes it more likely that a new disease kills a lot of crops in a single year.
Diversity is important to increase crisis resistence.

Last genmanipulating to have stronger pesticides or resistence against some vermins doesn't sound like a good idea.

On the other hand I don't have something against gen manipulating that is used to increase the size of some crop or to increase the concentration of vitamins if it's done in a way that doesn't decreae diversity to much.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

Schola,
After my post I did some research on Monsantos. Wow I had no idea what kind of company I was defending. Here's a list of some of the products they have brought to market.

1. saccharin
2. caffenine. Introduced it to Coke to create addicted consumers.
3. Nutra sweet
4. Assisted with development of first nuclear weapon
5. Ammonium nitrate
6. Agent Orange

I didn't know they were responsible for those products too. Thanks for the info.

[Still Growing]

I was arguing that its a free market earlier and that you were being paranoid about Monsanto.

Thank you for opening my eyes on this subject.