U.S. Dept. of Energy states Hydrogen can be produced by Electrolysis.

[infinitethoughts]

Millennium Cell Hydrogen on Demand System Showcased in PSA Peugeot Citroen Fire Truck at Paris Auto Show

EATONTOWN, N.J.--Oct. 2, 2002--Millennium Cell Inc. , a leading technology company that has created a proprietary technology to safely store, generate and deliver pure hydrogen, announced today that its Hydrogen on Demand(TM) fuel system powers the PSA Peugeot Citroen concept vehicle H20unveiled at the Paris Auto Show now underway.

This is back in 2002. 6 years ago and the U.S is still runnin down the "where can we get more Oil road".

Hmmmm.............Oh that's right. Hydrogen on Demand(TM) bypasses High costs to consumer Gas stations.

[infinitethoughts]

Jul 17, 2008
Solar and Hydrogen On Demand fuel cell boat prepares for voyage | Plenty Magazine. The world in Green.

Professional adventurer Mike Horn is preparing for a four-year eco-voyage on a high-tech boat, and he’s calling it the Pangaea Expedition. Horn, who cut his teeth gallivanting around the North Pole and traveling the length of the equator, plans to tour the world’s ecosystems and traverse about 100,000 kilometers, most of it by boat. Meanwhile, he’ll be offering periodic educational opportunities on board for teenagers around the world. As he ticks down the days until his official launch date this October, Horn is practicing sailing his ship by crossing the Atlantic (he reached Greenland last week).

[Dannyboy1]

Lose all that unsightly hair and go home with a cup of Hydrogen!

[infinitethoughts]

C'mon Detroit get with the damn program !

"While big Detroit automakers ponder a future plug-in car that goes 40 miles on a battery charge before its gas engine kicks in, Mr. Clifford's tiny ZENN Motor, a Toronto maker of low-speed electric cars, announced in March that it will build a new highway-speed (80 m.p.h.) model that goes 250 miles on a charge – and can recharge in just five minutes.

The reported breakthrough was made by ZENN's business partner EEStor, a Cedar Park, Texas, firm headed by respected computer industry veteran Richard Weir, who's named on the company's patent. The company is now nearing commercial production of its new "electrical energy storage unit" or EESU, Clifford says."

By Mark Clayton | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
from the April 16, 2008 edition
Ultracapacitors_ the future of electric cars or the 'cold fusion' of autovation? | csmonitor.com

Jan 9, 2008
Lockheed Martin Signs Agreement with EESTOR, Inc., for Energy Storage Solutions | Lockheed Martin

[infinitethoughts]

The National Hydrogen Association.
FAQ on Hydrogen and producing Hydrogen from water via Electrolysis.

The National Hydrogen Association | FAQ's.

[infinitethoughts]

Things are moving fast in the world of Powering a car purely by water.

Business Intelligence Middle East | The water-powered car race heats up still further |News, analysis, reports

"The Ethos Group of Switzerland reports that it has finished preliminary negotiations and CEO Peter Aldred is flying back to Manila to meet with Daniel Dingle for their next meeting on 8 August.

But the competition is now hot on their heals. An inventor from Sri Lanka, Thushara Priyamal Edirisinghe may have the ideal solution for the daily hikes in world oil prices. Thushara, a 25-year-old from Athurugiriya, is the creator of what could be a ground-breaking technology of powering a car by water, using an extremely low amount of electricity."

[infinitethoughts]

Mabbe not fast, just found out:

Looks like Ethos Group of Switzerland which has the website Daniel Dingle Foundation, apparently has no authorization on Dingel's water car plans. "Daniel Dingle Foundation" is unauthorized. | Daniel Dingel - Filipino Inventor.

For now, too good to be true with the water car.

[infinitethoughts]

University of New South Wales. Center for Materials Research in Energy Conversion. Working on extracting Hydrogen from water using Solar power.

Centre for Materials Research in Energy Conversion - Solar Hydrogen

UNSW: The University of New South Wales - Sydney Australia - News - Solar hydrogen - energy of the future

[infinitethoughts]

Running an Automobile on Hydrogen Using Water.

In a suburb of Toronto, Canada, a small company called Rothman Technologies, Inc., has in fact discovered not one but two viable methods for breaking down ordinary water into hydrogen and oxygen. Neither method involves the need to spend a billion dollars. They are simple answers. The existing engines in our automobiles could work with these systems with very little alteration and no need for an external support infrastructure like the one now provided by gas stations, and which would be required by fuel-cell technology.

The first process shown to us by Rothman Technologies uses water, salt, and an extremely inexpensive metal alloy. The gas that results from this process is pure hydrogen, a fuel that burns without the need for external oxygen — and gives off no pollution whatsoever.

--> The environment is experiencing tremendous problems at the moment, and one of the most serious of these is that we are losing our oxygen. The oxygen content of the air is becoming so low that it threatens our very existence in some areas. The normal oxygen content of our air is 21 percent. But in some places it is only a fraction of that! In Tokyo, Japan, for example, the oxygen content of the air has dipped to 6 or 7 percent. If it reaches 5 percent, people will begin to die. Tokyo has even put oxygen disbursement centers on its street corners, so that people can get emergency oxygen if they need it.

Brown's gas, created through an electrolytic process, actually may contribute oxygen to the air supply, rather than leaving it the same (as with fuel cells and pure hydrogen), or consuming it (as with fossil fuels). It is for this reason that we feel it will be the future technology of choice for running our vehicles.

[infinitethoughts]

Simple experiment any one can do that shows the hyper-conductivity and storage capabilities within plain water.

YouTube - Burning water!!

[infinitethoughts]

Older news.

Breakthrough on-demand hydrogen fuel generator may make hydrogen cars safe and practical
Monday, May 28, 2007 by: David Gutierrez | Key concepts: magnesium, hydrogen and hydrogen vehicles

"The Arizona-based company Ecotality has announced plans to produce a device that generates hydrogen on demand for vehicle fuel cells, thus eliminating the many problems associated with hydrogen production and transport and bringing hydrogen cars closer to the realm of the practical.

The Hydratus, developed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory at the California Institute of Technology, generates hydrogen from magnesium and water in a chemical reaction that takes place at temperatures between 400 and 600 degrees Celsius. The byproducts of the reaction are water and powdered magnesium oxide.

[infinitethoughts]

MIT Creates Cheap Hydrogen from Solar Power | Hydrogen Cars and Vehicles

August 1st, 2008

[ar81]

Originally Posted by Brutha

At the moment we neither know which way is the best way to store energy nor which is the best way to produce our energy in the future.
There is a good argument to be made that you should use a large energy mix to create the energy, because you become less dependent on events that reduce the efficency of one energy source.

But at the moment we should as society also experiment with a large number of different ways to store energy.
Hydrogen is one of them. But you don't get it somehow for free while you drive.
You have to use energy derived from other sources to get your hydrogen.

You are used to pay for everything. And you probably are used to pollution.
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe.
Water covers majority of surface of Earth.
Unlike fossil fuel the byproduct is not polluting.

If you split H2O into H2 and O2, you find that O2 is something you can breath. Then, you have H2.

If H2 is combined with O2 again it makes a very powerful bipropellant that is used by space shuttle SSME (Space Shuttle Main Engine) in the form of LOX (Liquid Oxygen) and LH2 (Liquid hydrogen). It provides a very high specific impulse, higher than JP4 jet fuel.

The problem of H2 is that the reaction is very powerful and therefore it is very flammable. But there are ways to make it safer. One of those is not to produce H2 until you need it.

H2 can be used as fuel, or it also can be used to absorb CO2 in a space station using Sabatier reaction.

I believe H2 is the way to go. Nuclear power requires water to cool down the reactor. So during summer or hot season you should have to turn it off like it happened in France before.

[Brutha]

If you split H2O into H2 and O2, you find that O2 is something you can breath. Then, you have H2.

You need as much energy to split H2O into H2 and O2 as you get from "burning" H2. You lose a bit of energy along the way as heat but you won't get additional energy in the process.
If you want to lunch a spaceshuttel the price of the energy that you need to split the H2O is pretty cheap compared to the other costs that you have when you want to build spaceshuttels. That doesn't mean that it's a cheap way to fuel other vehicals.

Compresed air doesn't pollute either directly.
Lithium Ion batteries also don't pollute as long as they get recycled afterwards.
Neither compressed air nor lithium ion batteries have a energy denseity that make them a viable choice for spaceshuttels.
Finding something that works for spaceshuttels is a different problem then the problem of finding a good fuel for vehicals.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Brutha

You need as much energy to split H2O into H2 and O2 as you get from "burning" H2. You lose a bit of energy along the way as heat but you won't get additional energy in the process.
If you want to lunch a spaceshuttel the price of the energy that you need to split the H2O is pretty cheap compared to the other costs that you have when you want to build spaceshuttels. That doesn't mean that it's a cheap way to fuel other vehicals.

Not as I see it. The commercial Hydrogen On Demand units that are sold and people are using now, uses 1.2 volts from the battery.
Punch HHO - Ultra High Output HHO Cells

The result is 130 octane Hydroxy gas that is supplemented to lower Octane gasoline. Thats 130 octane fuel.

1.2 volts to achieve 130 octane burnable Supplemental fuel (not direct fuel) ? In my book thats a system that is highly energy efficient.

Now if you want to power a vehicle directly from Hydrogen. Use solar panels to power the process of electrolysis, which splits water into hydrogen and oxygen. Transfer to a storing device, which can then be used to run fuel cells. Use these fuel cells to power your electric car or a Blue tec Engine.

Sponsored by Mercedes Bens and it's Blue Tec engine, this is exactly what Mike Hunter and his Pangaea Expedition is doing.

Solar and hydrogen fuel cell boat prepares for voyage — Plenty Magazine

Here you have free power. Free energy. Period.

[Brutha]

1.2 volts to achieve 130 octane burnable Supplemental fuel (not direct fuel) ? In my book thats a system that is highly energy efficient.

That argument is flawed because you only produce a low amount of Hydroxy gas that way. Octane is no measure that tells you how much of the gas got produced.
According to very basic chemic princibles you just can't create more energy than you put into the system that way.

Once you have build solar panels they create free energy. That has nothing to do with Hydroxy gas being somehow free energy.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Brutha

That argument is flawed because you only produce a low amount of Hydroxy gas that way. Octane is no measure that tells you how much of the gas got produced.
According to very basic chemic princibles you just can't create more energy than you put into the system that way.

Once you have build solar panels they create free energy. That has nothing to do with Hydroxy gas being somehow free energy.

No. The argument is not flawed. The argument is being misunderstood. Who is saying anything about "creating more energy, then you put in"?

Not me.

In the case of commerical HHO generators, I specifically underlined that is it supplemental fuel.

Further, in my previous post, I've shown you a practical application that is presently in use. It is simply conversion of energy. No one is saying anything about Overunity.

Once again. Mike Hunt in connection with Mercedes Benz, is using the Hydrogen on Demand, to generate Hydrogen which is then stored. Which then powers the Blue Tec engine. No other fuel is needed.

Of course it's free energy. I'm not understanding your points. The system they use is completely self contained, with no outer power source needed.

[ar81]

Originally Posted by Brutha

You need as much energy to split H2O into H2 and O2 as you get from "burning" H2. You lose a bit of energy along the way as heat but you won't get additional energy in the process.
If you want to lunch a spaceshuttel the price of the energy that you need to split the H2O is pretty cheap compared to the other costs that you have when you want to build spaceshuttels. That doesn't mean that it's a cheap way to fuel other vehicals.

Compresed air doesn't pollute either directly.
Lithium Ion batteries also don't pollute as long as they get recycled afterwards.
Neither compressed air nor lithium ion batteries have a energy denseity that make them a viable choice for spaceshuttels.
Finding something that works for spaceshuttels is a different problem then the problem of finding a good fuel for vehicals.

Yes, you need that amount of energy and you have losses.
But think of this...

You may find problems to store lots of electric energy because of the limitation of design of batteries, while if you separate H2 and O2 you have the energy being stored.

H2+O2 is a very high octane fuel because of its specific impulse.
Shuttle uses is not because of its cost (cheap or expensive) but because of its specific impulse.
Other fuels like JP4 or Kerosene provide lower thrust because they have a lower specific impulse.
Kerosene is a hydrocarbon which requires oil. Electrolysis requires water. With increasing oil prices even solar energy is now profitable.

The problem of H2+O2 is that the optimal performance takes place if bipropellant is very cold, but even if not cold the reaction is still very powerful.

Electrolysis is used to produce oxygen inside the shuttle, and you get a remnant of H2.
Using Sabatier reaction you can use H2 as carbon dioxide absorber. So if you ask me if it is too energy demanding or expensive, I would say that if it was that case, they would not use it. NASA has a very tight budget, about 1/4 of what it had during Apollo program, once you remove inflation. So they need to make the best use of their tight budget.

I recall that during the first shuttle missions they used lithium hydroxide canisters which were disposable. That CO2 absortion method is far less efficient than Sabatier reaction for it requires more mass.

[infinitethoughts]

Conversion kit to run engine in final testing phase.

United Nuclear - Hydrogen Fuel Systems

United Nuclear is currently in its final testing phase, and will shortly be producing Hydrogen Fuel System Conversion Kits & Hydrogen Generators for several late model, fuel injected, Gasoline powered vehicles.

[Brutha]

Shuttle uses is not because of its cost (cheap or expensive) but because of its specific impulse.

Exactly. The cost isn't important for the shuttle.
Factors like weight and a specific impulse are more important for shuttles.
For cars cost is more important than the specific impulse.

You may find problems to store lots of electric energy because of the limitation of design of batteries, while if you separate H2 and O2 you have the energy being stored.

There different ways to store energy. I don't know which one will be used for cars in 20 years, since I don't know what kind of new technology will be invented till then.

Kerosene is a hydrocarbon which requires oil. Electrolysis requires water.

Hydrocarbons can also made from ethonal or the way Craig Venter wants them to make via a specially designed bacteria.
In addition the difference between transforming hydrocarbons into kerosene and doing electrolysis is that electrolysis needs external energy.

Electrolysis is used to produce oxygen inside the shuttle, and you get a remnant of H2.

Where did you get that information from?
I don't think it makes sense to not do the electrolysis process at earth, since you don't get new water anyway while you are up there.
The space station might recycle waste from the astronauds that way, but it doesn't make sense for other water to be electrolysed up there.

Of course it's free energy.

Solar cells provide (once they are built) free energy. That hasn't much to do with electrolysis.

[ar81]

I got confused. When I wrote space shuttle uses electrolysis I was thinking about space station. My mistake.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Solar cells provide (once they are built) free energy. That hasn't much to do with electrolysis.

Sure it does. (I've already said this, but I'll repeat again. )

As I've referenced above in the Mercedes Benz sponsored Pagaea Expedition, Solar power provides the voltage needed to generate Hydrogen from water via Electrolysis.

The hydrogen generated is then stored in Fuel cells. These fuel cells then are used to power either a Hydrogen engine or an Electrical engine.

This is FREE energy, (once the system is built) You are not at the mercy of Petroleum companies. You are OFF the grid.

[infinitethoughts]

And this: (from United Nuclear website)

Our Hydrogen Conversion Kits accomplish the task by using a solar array or wind turbine (or both, depending on customer's physical location) to power the Hydrogen Generator. This home Hydrogen generator remains in your garage and is about the size of a dishwasher.

The Hydrogen generator connects to your water line and the solar array (or wind generator) provides the necessary power to run the generator.
When you park you car in the garage at night, you plug your car into the generator.

Using the available pressure in your water line, the Hydrogen Generator pumps the Hydrogen it has produced during the day into the Metal Hydride storage tanks in your vehicle, safely storing the gas until you're ready to drive.

[infinitethoughts]

Here are other ways to produce cheaper Hydrogen vs. what Petroleum companies, Mr. Bush and Schwarzenegger, would have you believe and pay $5.00 a liter on their Hydrogen Highways.

Petroleum companies are more then happy to lead us to to believe that Hydrogen can only be generated through their expensive process and using their product.
Pertroleum.

(Schwarzenegger already has pushed to open 24 existing Hydrogen refueling stations, from California up to Alaska.)

Only through knowledge can we weed through the disinformation we are fed concerning these issues.
It's always about money. Follow the money trail, and the truth reveals itself.

Home/Industry Hydrogen Catalytic Generators. Using chemical reactions and water to produce Hydrogen.

Boron

Hydrogen from Water using Boron - Chemical process allows for rapid liberation of hydrogen from water. The resulting boron oxide can then be regenerated to boron using renewable energy. Does require distribution infrastructure.

Purdue Organosilane
Purdue Announces Hydrogen from Water, Organic Material - Purdue researchers have developed a novel technique for producing hydrogen from water. It requires only water, a catalyst based on the metal rhenium (REE-nee-um) and an organic liquid called an organosilane, which can be stored and transported easily. (PESN; Aug. 31, 2005)

AllH2
AllH2 - The cell is a combination of magnesium, aluminium and stainless steel. It weighs .061 lbs. and has a lifetime shelf life. It's dimensions are 3" X 12" X 1/4". This cell when immersed in seawater releases hydrogen gas.

Safe Hydrogen LLC
Safe Hydrogen LLC is developing a hydrogen fuel that can be distributed using the existing gasoline infrastructure utilizing magnesium hydride slurry as a pumpable hydrogen fuel. Hydrogen is generated -only when needed - by mixing the slurry in a compact mixing device with water.

Hydrogen Power, Inc
Hydrogen Power, Inc Produces Hydrogen from Water - Hydrogen Now involves a chemical reaction between water, aluminum, and a catalyst to produce hydrogen on-demand. AlumiFuel powder, consisting of aluminum and catalyst can be easily transported and stored. The aluminum “splits�? the water freeing the hydrogen and creating a benign byproduct of aluminum hydroxide. (The Energy Blog; December 28, 2006)
Hydrogen Power Inc - Hydrogen Now™ combines aluminum, water and an environmentally-friendly catalyst to create a water split reaction.

AirGen Corporation
AirGen Corporation - AGC’s technology involves a chemical reaction created by the mixture of water, metals and nanosized colloidal metal catalysts to generate hydrogen and oxygen gas using a thermal and/or electric energy source. The low process temperature required can be supplied by renewable sources and the only consumable is water.

Global Hydrofuel Technologies
Global Hydrofuel Technolgies - has developed a method for producing hydrogen-on-demand from aluminum-assisted water split reaction, hydrogen suitable for any application and without the need for hydrogen storage or distribution. As well, the byproduct of the process can be recycled and reused in the process.

[Brutha]

Only through knowledge can we weed through the disinformation we are fed concerning these issues.
It's always about money. Follow the money trail, and the truth reveals itself.

Home/Industry Hydrogen Catalytic Generators. Using chemical reactions and water to produce Hydrogen.

Some people might want to drive far away from there home where they have their Hydrogen refuelling station.
If you want to make it a standard where everyone drives hydrogen cars that need refuelling stations you need them on the road, whether or not people have some at home.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Some people might want to drive far away from there home where they have their Hydrogen refuelling station.
If you want to make it a standard where everyone drives hydrogen cars that need refuelling stations you need them on the road, whether or not people have some at home.

I agree 100%. The Hydrogen infrastructure is needed for long distance.

With the options I've outlined above, it's good to know that one will not be at the mercy of Rip off pricing, by them making sure to keep Petroleum in the equation (their Petroleum).......when driving around town.

[escapee]

Bad news for hydrogen car.

An Australian researcher has warned that the drive to put cleaner, hydrogen-fuelled cars on the road will stall unless new reserves of platinum are found.

"Existing reserves would meet less than 20 per cent of the world's platinum demand if all cars went hydrogen."

World 'needs Australia's platinum to build cleaner cars' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

I tell you what, I'm gonna get more bicycles .

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by escapee

Bad news for hydrogen car.
World 'needs Australia's platinum to build cleaner cars' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

I tell you what, I'm gonna get more bicycles .

Naw, I wouldn't say that. Don't forget this is just one researcher saying this.

Hydrogen is the most abundant substance in the universe. You can make hydrgone from practically anything.

Actually I find it very "strange" why this researcher would even say this.
Very suspicious in my mind. But then again there is a Behemoth Industry that is not too happy about Hydrogen taking over their monopoly of the last 80 or so years........

[escapee]

Hydrogen is the most abundant substance in the universe. You can make hydrgone from practically anything.

Platinum is not .

[Brutha]

Hydrogen is the most abundant substance in the universe. You can make hydrgone from practically anything.

The article is not about producing Hydrogen but about uses it in fuel cells build on platin.

A nice article about making hydrogen:
'Major discovery' from MIT primed to unleash solar revolution - MIT News Office
'Major discovery' from MIT primed to unleash solar revolution - MIT News Office | Beyond the Beyond from Wired.com has nice commentary on the article.