Fight back on Oil Co's. Gas at almost $5.00 now.

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Here's a good article.
Science's Worst Enemy: Corporate Funding | DISCOVER Magazine

Thanks. Though the shift from 60-40 government to 60-40 corporate is of some concern, this doesn't support a disregard of peer reviewed science. Rather, the appropriate course of action would be to scrutinize the ambitions of the people involved in a particular piece of research. As always, never rely on a single study.

Oxygen therapy is a biggie. Last I heard one had to go to Mexico for treatment. (This may have changed.) Cancer cells cannot live in an oxygen rich environment.

There's even a cheap way to inhale oxygen, (food grade hydogen peroxide, which is water with an extra oxygen atom attached.)
Prostate cancer cured by inhaling H202.

80 years ago in India, it was used to cure a pneumonia epidemic.

Hydrogen peroxide? Ingest hydrogen peroxide? No. This is not only wrong, it is dangerous. This probably goes back to Otto Warburg's 1930 Nobel prize in which he discovered anaerobic cancer cells. He hypothesized that, perhaps, oxygen could be used to treat cancer. Subsequent research found that cancer can grow in oxygen rich environments as well as oxygen poor environments. The total oxygen increase that could be attained throughout the body through this method would be limited, probably less than a 10% increase.

Food grade hydrogen peroxide (30%) is caustic. It can burn the skin. Ingested, it can cause vomiting, internal burns of the throat and stomach, and, in severe cases, death. Injected hydrogen peroxide of this concentration would increase oxygen, but would create air bubbles in the veins, leading to embolisms.

The two links you posted were to sites that had case studies. The second failed to provide any sources through which one could verify the information, and contained a number of scientific misstatements and errors. One quick example is that H2O2 is used by white blood cells. The mechanism is actually superoxide released in small amounts. Superoxide, in large amounts, is also toxic. One of the sources the second page cites as support is a Baylor University of Medicine study: "And more recently, doctors at Baylor University proved the effectiveness of hydrogen peroxide therapy against many more diseases, including clogged arteries."

Two things here: First, if there is such a conspiracy by universities, why would Baylor be studying it? Did a research team not get the memo from the corporations? Secondly, the page lied. The article is available for free here: Arachidonic acid metabolites, hydrogen peroxide, and EDHF in cerebral arteries -- You et al. 289 (3): H1077 -- AJP - Heart and Circulatory Physiology The team did not research the effectiveness of hydrogen peroxide therapy at all, much less on "many more diseases". Rather, they tested for a correlation between vasodilation and various substances to try and discover a yet-unknown vasodilator for treating circulatory diseases. It had absolutely nothing to do with inhaling hydrogen peroxide and, even if it had, would have been evidence against the theory.

Kumbucha tea, from the Tibetan mountains. Which is green tea fermented. The fermentation process vastly increases the potency of the extreme health benefits of green tea.

This company was created because it's founder's Mother beat breast cancer by drinking it.

Looks interesting. A cure for cancer, though? Many people with cancer recover, and we're not entirely sure why some people do and others die. One person surviving does not scientific credibility make. The site sells the product, and so has a direct monetary interest in advertising their case study.

Case studies along do not prove scientific fact. I'll stick with verifiable, repeatable results.

But these cures have no monetary value, (H202 costs pennies on the dollar to produce) hence are of no use to the present Financial Medical Infrastructure.

Trust me, if it worked, they'd find a way to patent it, restrict it, and sell it for thousands of dollars a pop.

LOL.....The deafening silence of Corporate funded scientific community. But I'll not get into that.

I will. I have friends who work doing medical research. Some of them are corporate funded, some are not. These people some of the most passionate, caring friends I have. They care little for financial gain; two took substantial, upper six figure pay cuts to work looking for cures. They'd gladly sacrifice more to help their patients. Even though they are working in research, they have to watch people slowly die as they take samples, run tests, and pray for a cure. The notion that they're covering up simple cures because of some corporate masters is off base to the point of insulting. It also disregards the deafening silence in reputable journals overseas and reputable independent research labs.

But it is out there, if one looks.
Sepp Hasslberger: Pogue, Hydrogen - Stories of Suppression

Directory:Suppression - PESWiki

Curious. The stories are interesting. I've picked two at random from PESWiki: Ken Rasmussen and Charles Nelson Pogue. For Ken Rasmussen, I did a search of newspapers from the county where he lived and was supposedly confronted. Nothing in any newspapers. Nothing in any of the police notices. He was run off the road, his life and family threatened, and he did... nothing. Except tell people who would plaster it on the internet, of course...
As for Charles Pogue, I'll let the non-corporate funded snopes take this one: snopes.com: Miracle Carburetor

If these stories were true, it would take tens of thousands of people participating in a conspiracy, all of whom would have sufficient documentation to blow it wide open. If they did so, they'd have wide-reaching support from all corners. They'd be a world hero. It is unrealistic to think such a conspiracy exists.

[infinitethoughts]

Thoughtaddict.

Your method is to trust studies, and thats fine. Your choice.
I never rely on studies. Too many "vested interests", from both sides. (Pro and con.)
It's the atmosphere we live in, Profit at all costs.

The philosophy I use in my life is listen to my intuition and intelligence. Hasn't failed me yet.

I'll keep posting what I find about this technology as more and more comes out, which it will. Anybody interested, use common sense, find a good installer, see if they have a guarantee, ask questons, etc.

One thing to remember is, there are now Auto repair shops installing it, and I'm sure they're not going to ruin their reputation installing something that is a scam.

(Btw- With the food grade H2O2, I forgot to say you dilute it to 3%, my mistake, and yes you can inhale it with absolutely no problems, because it's food grade and you're inhaling the mist. I've been doing it off and on for years with extremely amazing benefits.)

So I'll end it here, Thoughtaddict, otherwise you an I will have an infinite regress discussion that'll get nowhere.

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

I never rely on studies. Too many "vested interests", from both sides. (Pro and con.)

You're right. I do rely on peer reviewed science and the power of verifiable results. I'd rather rely on something working when it has worked hundreds of times before. It is, perhaps, a result of my philosophy background and experience in criticizing inductive reasoning. Perhaps part of it has to do with my work in law offices, observing how scammers love a good, but legally barely relevant, case study, and often the lawyers had to justify those case studies with some scientific evidence.

I'll keep posting what I find about this technology as more and more comes out, which it will. Anybody interested, use common sense, find a good installer, see if they have a guarantee, ask questons, etc.

I'd recommend following the adage caveat emptor. If anyone does buy one of these items and is financially harmed as a result, they should find a good class action lawyer who will work on a contingency fee basis.

One thing to remember is, there are now Auto repair shops installing it, and I'm sure they're not going to ruin their reputation installing something that is a scam.

I'm skeptical of this claim. If the profit motive is high enough, people will do just about anything. A quick story: I worked for a lawyer representing a doctor. The doctor was accused of committing fraud. He had made claims that products he was selling were effective as *ahem* male enlargement products. The pills had no effect, but he made several hundred thousands of dollars selling them online. He was found guilty and, among other penalties, his medical license was revoked. His reputation? Well, it wasn't worth the speedboat, huge house, cars, and lavish lifestyle.

(Btw- With the food grade H2O2, I forgot to say you dilute it to 3%, my mistake, and yes you can inhale it with absolutely no problems, because it's food grade and you're inhaling the mist. I've been doing it off and on for years with extremely amazing benefits.)

So I'll end it here, Thoughtaddict, otherwise you an I will have an infinite regress discussion that'll get nowhere.

Ah. A 3% hydrogen peroxide solution is probably okay, as long as you don't have concentrated amounts on mucous membranes for an extended period. The oxygen therapy proponents generally talk about using a 30-35% solution injected, ingested, or exposed to mucous membranes. People have been seriously injured with such treatments. It is good to hear you're not one of them.

I agree that this discussion probably won't bear much fruit. My posts were mainly geared toward presenting the other side of the debate, one based largely around the laws of physics. While it has been enjoyable, I think we both sufficiently understand each other to agree to disagree.

Be well.

[infinitethoughts]

I'll keep posting what I find about this technology as more and more comes out, which it will. Anybody interested, use common sense, find a good installer, see if they have a guarantee, ask questons, etc.

Originally Posted by ThoughtAddict

I'd recommend following the adage caveat emptor. If anyone does buy one of these items and is financially harmed as a result, they should find a good class action lawyer who will work on a contingency fee basis.

Good solid advice, ThoughtAddict. Which, now that I think about it, is actually in the long run a good way to prove whether this technology works or not.

Originally Posted by ThoughtAddict

I agree that this discussion probably won't bear much fruit. My posts were mainly geared toward presenting the other side of the debate, one based largely around the laws of physics. While it has been enjoyable, I think we both sufficiently understand each other to agree to disagree.

Be well.

Likewise. Very enjoyable.
Take care.

[schola]

infinitethoughts,

I've noticed that the basis for your position on this free energy stuff seems to be that you believe their are corporate interests who are suppressing these new technologies. I agree that their are greedy corporations with less than honest intentions and we should treat their actions with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Yet I don't understand how you cannot also apply this same level of skepticism to these "little guys" who might be grade A bullshitters interested in ripping people off, just like the big businessmen.

I personally treat every claim with skepticism, which is why every guy who comes along claiming to have discovered a "free" energy source has to try very hard before to prove it to me before I would be convinced.

Most of these people are crackpots or charlatans. I'm sure there are honest-to-God geniuses among those we label crackpots, but there is a difference between someone like Tesla, who proved himself by producing many real, workable technologies, and some dude who appeared once on a local TV news station and was never heard from again.

Stanely Meyer for example never produced any reproduce-able technologies even though he had many interested investors before he died. He was even successfully sued by some of these investors for fraud when he never came through on his promises.

The truth is, there are going to be people with ulterior motives on both sides of an issue.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by schola

infinitethoughts,

Yet I don't understand how you cannot also apply this same level of skepticism to these "little guys" who might be grade A bullshitters interested in ripping people off, just like the big businessmen.

Schola. I have.

Originally Posted by ThoughtAddict

I'd recommend following the adage caveat emptor. If anyone does buy one of these items and is financially harmed as a result, they should find a good class action lawyer who will work on a contingency fee basis.

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Good solid advice, ThoughtAddict. Which, now that I think about it, is actually in the long run a good way to prove whether this technology works or not.