Free Speech

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I thought this article might be a jumping off point for a discussion of free speech:

Unlike Others, U.S. Defends Freedom to Offend in Speech

What do you think?

[Akashic_Librarian]

I very much agree, the article is very accurate in describing the foregin policy on these ideas. I think its summed up quite nicely in this wquote from the article:

“The problem with so-called hate speech laws is that they’re not about facts,” he said in a telephone interview. “They’re about feelings.”

This is I think identifies the main problem with European law, American Law does a damn good job, in this respect, by seperating fact and feelings. If a journalist has a proof of something, no matter how damaging it is to a social, ethnic, or religious minority then they have a right to say it aslong as they stick to facts. Here in the UK it's not so much like that.

If a journalist has proof, he has to be damn careful he uses it in a way that askews it from what it really means.

At the moment our biggest problems our the Lower-end of the social class, we call them Chavs and this hoodie culture they have going on, and Muslims.

I don't mean to say that ALL chavs are degenerate, knife wielding psychos, nor do I mean that every Muslim is a terrorist.

What I am trying to highlight is that we as a nation are afraid and confront and resolve the issues, our government is too afraid to stand up for itself, so our papers and televised news hours suffer...why? Because they are afraid to be jumped on by Do-gooders who can see the sorry state we are in.

We stand behind a smoke cloud of false relations, jokes like The Muslim Council of Britain and Anti Social Behaviour Orders (ASBOs), these are designed to give the illusion that a problem is being dealt with. When really it isn't.

Another example of a restriction on our freedom of speech is in my own school, something I have to deal with on a daily basis.

Because of my schools close proximity (unfortunately) to a economically (and as an extension socially and mentally) deprived area half, if not more, of the yearly student in-take is from either a harsh, broken or in someway unhealthy background. This means that more than half the school is off-limits to critisism because they're "Not acting of their own volition" or "The problem is being handled discretely to avoid upset"...actual quotes I have seen on teachers reports, maybe only slightly paraphrased.

Whilst I, in a way, empathise with their problems, they are not to blame after all, the problem is not being resolved because everyone is too afraid to say, out loud. "Listen, these kids ARE bad, whether its their fault or not, its OUR problem, they...are...bad and we can't just stand by and let them rule us through fear"

Similarly I will talk about my personal exprience with the local Muslim community - This is my own personal experience now, not mere speculation or hate mongering - At my school they are arrogant (yes all of them, I have yet to see one exception) they deal drugs, they sense their innate immunity to critisism because of their ethnic status and therefore wildly disrupt the Study Room, a quiet place for 6th Formers to study in peace, they shout, yell and make an unholy ruckus and it almost breaks my heart to see the poor teacher monitoring the room internally try and decide if they are justified in sending them out, simply because they are asian, however us white folks are straight to be sent out if we so much as whisper...that is no exageration.

I am all for freedom of speech. However people such as this make my blood boil:

“You are the only thing between racist, hateful, contemptuous Islamophobic and irresponsible journalism, and law-abiding Canadian citizens,” the lawyer, Faisal Joseph, told the tribunal.

Can I just point out that a phobia is an irrational fear. I am afraid of Islam, most certainly, I am afraid of all the main religions, but it isn't irrational, good heavens no.

You see White, Yellow, Black, and Tan colored people are the first in line to get kicked in the proverbial balls when it comes to racism, hate speech and crimes of "dubious moral centres", Brown people (the humble Asian and high-chance Muslim) is exempt from high-profile cases that could be seen as racially sensitive, and if the odd asian drug dealer, or murderer is caught...well they where brought up in a deprived area, or where drunk...You see everytime I get drunk I order a Hitman to come and kill my sister because she dishonoured and upset my patriarchal self-righteous pig-headed beliefs. Well at least Christians do that, Jews certainly do that, Sikh's are the worst for it to be honest and those damnable Hindus always out there killing people for honour...Musl...shhhhhhh THOSE PEOPLE don't hurt anyone, I mean they call it a religion of peace, isn't that enough hard, irreducible evidence for you?

Now in a my world, and my country, and my life that is a disgusting thing to say, its awful...It attacks Muslims, it in a way insults other religions (well it does if your an MP) and by God it doesn't acknowledge that ideological systems, no matter how violent or oppressive they are, deserve equal respect because as we all know, belief trumps fact...every time.

However everything in that little rant is fact, everything is based on actual evidence, actual police reports do claim that these are reasons for violence, and the humble White, Black, Tan, Yellow sucker just sits there and gets scolded, whilst the Muslim boy steals the last cookie.

Freedom of speech in my country isn't free. Its distorted to all manner of ridiculous sensibilities.

'forced to publish a rebuttal and made to compensate Muslims for injuring their “dignity, feelings and self-respect.”’

What is this? The Pope gets thousands of daily critics, I as an undecided non-but-maybe-a-believe get critisised daily, hell everyone on the planet gets their feelings hurt every now and then right...

Its natural and of course we should protect those feelings of others, that's just a sensible thing to do. However unlike the rest of the world, Muslims scream themselves up in to a blood-lust fury for anyone caught inciting even the slightest iota of what could be warped and perceived as something possibly linked to a half-insult of something that might be Islam, if you look at it through Brown-tinted spectacles. And that is why I defend peoples rights to insult them, but I also defend their rights to respectfully disagree. I DO NOT respect their rights to march on the street demanding medievil and barbaric punishment for someone sharing a right they love to indulge in - Freedom of Thought, action and speech.

When I say of freedom of speech, I don't mean the right to call fat people names, or push Muslim boys in the mud simply for being Muslim, or insulting George Bush and Tony Blair for what could be seen as a slightly homosexual relationship.

No...I defend civillised debate, arguments based on fact, truth and wisdom, not feelings (hurt or otherwise), nor ideological notions based on ancient law and text that is not socially relevant.

We as a planet and a species have a right to find the truth in all matters. I implore everyone out there who stands in their little fortress, cannons at the ready to obliterate any opposition to your neat and tidy little world of ideas, to step outside and we can all palaver in peace and honesty and maybe WWIII will be a joke we can make to our grandchildren who won't ever see a world at war.

[Brutha]

Yes, the US in fact has a stronger freedom of speech in a lot of areas.
I think that the freedom of speech is important and the US model works better than the European one.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

As for my opinion, I prefer the US model as well. However, I feel that along with all of the other freedoms our "free country" is taking away so rapidly, it will be a mere memory before long.

[Thur]

I live in the Netherlands, where there's a lot to do about the freedom of speech and press. But how does free speech live in the USA when religion is still a part of the government? How does free speech live with only two parties? How does free speech live, when all 'dangerous countries' are being attacked? Isn't that a form of free speech as well?
The article seems a bit singular to me, like the USA are the best place to be when considering free speech. I certainly do not hold all wisdom, but I'd like to spice up the discussion a bit

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Thur

I live in the Netherlands, where there's a lot to do about the freedom of speech and press. But how does free speech live in the USA when religion is still a part of the government? How does free speech live with only two parties? How does free speech live, when all 'dangerous countries' are being attacked? Isn't that a form of free speech as well?
The article seems a bit singular to me, like the USA are the best place to be when considering free speech. I certainly do not hold all wisdom, but I'd like to spice up the discussion a bit

I'm actually not sure how we've kept free speech this long in the form we have. We certainly have lost a lot of freedom in recent times, but I guess we just really like our freedom of speech? I'm not sure our system is the best (I wouldn't be able to say that anyway having never lived anywhere else), but I do like that we are able to express our views even when others don't like them.

[Brutha]

How does free speech live, when all 'dangerous countries' are being attacked? Isn't that a form of free speech as well?

No attacking countries hasn't that much do to with free speech.
Attacking other countries is a huge problem but it is a different one than the free speech problem.

Free speech is the right to say things.
Having a multiparty democratic system is very valuable, but that doesn't negate the fact that the right to say thngs is good.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Thur

I live in the Netherlands, where there's a lot to do about the freedom of speech and press. But how does free speech live in the USA when religion is still a part of the government? How does free speech live with only two parties? How does free speech live, when all 'dangerous countries' are being attacked? Isn't that a form of free speech as well?
The article seems a bit singular to me, like the USA are the best place to be when considering free speech. I certainly do not hold all wisdom, but I'd like to spice up the discussion a bit

You are so right.

Its interesting though... The US has free speech because those in power know that we can talk all we want but in the end they control both parties !

Americans can talk all they want but it changes nothing....

[Marco Polo]

They're quoting Mark Steyn! One of the bravest men alive IMO.