$23 Billion Lost in Iraq

[Dan.Linehan]

$23 Billion has been lost, stolen, or is otherwise unaccounted for in Iraq.

That's 23,000 Million. The BBC says that the missing money can't even be investigated until Bush is out of office.

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | BBC uncovers lost Iraq billions


To put that figure in perspective, immunizations for all the world's children against measles, whooping cough, tetanus, tuberculosis, polio and diphtheria would cost only 600 Million.

[Dan.Linehan]

Keeping in mind how much money can just disappear without any trace or accountability, it makes perfect sense that the current administration would be demanding to maintain 58 bases in Iraq. More money to launder.

[Lazarus]

ouch, my wallet

[anglocon]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

$23 Billion has been lost, stolen, or is otherwise unaccounted for in Iraq.

Not suprised really. So much money has been thrown at Iraq and Afghanistan that they are magnets for all kinds of dodgy profiteers. There are lots of claims as well that other money has been mis-managed and re-directed to pet projects.

I suspect that the gagging order is there so that Bush and cronies found to be too incompetent before they leave office. That should come out in the wash though over the next couple of years.

[escapee]

23 billion lost ? there are just paper or digital numbers created out of thin air to fund the reconstruction process. Still lost? reprint or recreate again with a few strokes on the keyboard.

I'm more concerned about the loss of human life,wastage of oil resource in combat mission, property destruction, pollution, and the consumer good inflation caused by that extra 23 billion "lost" dollars

Here is your 500 billion dollars in a piece of paper, go have fun with it ..

[joelyle]

The money was "converted" from the US Govt. (We the people...) to private enterprise. The blow back is the hidden tax of inflation/fiat money.

[Brutha]

The money was "converted" from the US Govt. (We the people...) to private enterprise.

No it's the money wasn't paid out to private enterprise but got "lost" somewhere.

23 billion lost ? there are just paper or digital numbers created out of thin air to fund the reconstruction process. Still lost? reprint or recreate again with a few strokes on the keyboard.

Don't underestimate what you can do with 23 billion.
Lost mean that the money either went into curroption or in some secret program where nobody wants to admit that the program exists.

The problem isn't so much that 23 billon is missing (even through that is in fact a problem), but that 23 billon went "somewhere" where they don't legally or morally belong.

You could use unaccounted money to bribe Iraqi politicans into allowing a continued US occupation.
23 billon don't just disappear but somebody uses them for some purpose.

[Dan.Linehan]

BBC documentary: Daylight Robbery - What Happened to the $23billion?

[Brutha]

There two issues:
Cost plus capitalism is just crazy.

If you run Iraq that corrupt Iraqis probably would throw out those companies in an instant if they wouldn't be protected by US military.

[Dan.Linehan]

The war profiteering is official. This article goes over four of twelve cases from a high level CIA whistleblower who has provided documents and testimony.

Exposing Bush Administration Corruption | BaltimoreChronicle.com

SueAnn Arrigo is the source. Her title was Special Operations Advisor to the Director of Central Intelligence (DCI).

Part of her job involved intelligence gathering on Iraq and Afghanistan—until August 2004, when she refused to spread propaganda about a non-existent Iranian nuclear weapons program and left. She followed in the footsteps of others at the CIA who resigned for reasons of conscience and became critics—most notably Ray McGovern, Ralph McGehee, and Phil Agee.

On May 16, 2008, Arrigo sent extensive government corruption and cover-up information to Henry Waxman, Chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee—in 12 separate cases. This article covers four of them, or about one-third of what Congress got. The 12 are explosive and revealing, but just the tip of the iceberg. They contain evidence of:

* government corruption and war profiteering;
* sweetheart deals and kickbacks;
* high-level types on the take;
* trillions of missing dollars.
* On September 10, 2001, Rumsfeld admitted that, "according to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions." Imagine the current amount, and its corrosive effect on the nation

[Dannyboy1]

I would ask all friends and relatives of Bush.

[Dan.Linehan]

Ask what?

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Ask what?

It's lining their pockets and the walls of their vacation homes and swimming pools. He hooked up all his business partners in Iraq. War is a huge opportunity for new business. I'm sure he used the money to fund alot of their transactions.

[Dan.Linehan]

The money has already been converted into hard assets.

We are talking land, weapons and employees - not swimming pools.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

The money has already been converted into hard assets.

We are talking land, weapons and employees - not swimming pools.

are the suppliers of the weapons (ex: Dick Cheney) so, indirectly it goes to their swimming pools.

[Dan.Linehan]

These folks are intent on natural resource control. Not vacations and swimming pools.

For example -- why do you think Bush would purchase 173,000 acres in Paraguay over top the world's largest freshwater aquifer?

*Hint* Not because it's a vacation spot.

[Still Growing]

I don't deny that its possible that Bush or Cheney may secretly profit off war but in the end they are small time players. Presidents come and go but the decision makers stay.

The big money makers buy and sell politicians like they are cattle. Politicians seek power and the special interests help put those in power that agree with them.

The special interests even go so far as to pay for pro think tanks to do a song and dance in front of the President so that he believes what he's doing is right. They infilitrate the CIA and other intelligence agencies. They fund so many people that they are the silent hand behind gov't.

People who think politicians are the ones with the power are naive. I see all of these reports speaking about Bush and Cheney like they are the ones calling the shots. Maybe they think they are but their not.

Its the silent hand of special interest... You know it and I know it.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

I don't deny that its possible that Bush or Cheney may secretly profit off war but in the end they are small time players. Presidents come and go but the decision makers stay.

The big money makers buy and sell politicians like they are cattle. Politicians seek power and the special interests help put those in power that agree with them.

The special interests even go so far as to pay for pro think tanks to do a song and dance in front of the President so that he believes what he's doing is right. They infilitrate the CIA and other intelligence agencies. They fund so many people that they are the silent hand behind gov't.

People who think politicians are the ones with the power are naive. I see all of these reports speaking about Bush and Cheney like they are the ones calling the shots. Maybe they think they are but their not.

Its the silent hand of special interest... You know it and I know it.

But, how are we going to affect the people who buy the politicians when they buy the lawmakers? They make it impossible for any nonaffiliated entity to even make a real run for office because they'll never have enough money to market their candidate.

[Brutha]

But, how are we going to affect the people who buy the politicians when they buy the lawmakers?

Going on the streets and lobby for campain reform, or work on some project like Change Congress — Home.

Having as much demonstatrions for campain reform as there are demostration at the moment for stopping the war in Iraq should be a resonable goal if you really think that this is the central problem.

I don't deny that its possible that Bush or Cheney may secretly profit off war but in the end they are small time players. Presidents come and go but the decision makers stay.

The big money makers buy and sell politicians like they are cattle.

The question is always to find a way of buying politicans.
Making sure that the person who holds an office financially profits from the decision that you want is a form of buying politicians.

Most of the time corruption isn't direct where the politican gets a bag of money for making a certain decision.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

I don't deny that its possible that Bush or Cheney may secretly profit off war but in the end they are small time players. Presidents come and go but the decision makers stay.

The big money makers buy and sell politicians like they are cattle. Politicians seek power and the special interests help put those in power that agree with them.

The special interests even go so far as to pay for pro think tanks to do a song and dance in front of the President so that he believes what he's doing is right. They infilitrate the CIA and other intelligence agencies. They fund so many people that they are the silent hand behind gov't.

People who think politicians are the ones with the power are naive. I see all of these reports speaking about Bush and Cheney like they are the ones calling the shots. Maybe they think they are but their not.

Its the silent hand of special interest... You know it and I know it.

Bump to this.

[Brutha]

Bump to this.

Yes, you hould always remember that the media reports about stories that are easy to tell.
It's very easy to get angry about Chaney for having a financel interest in a high haliburton price.
It's not so easy to write a story about a complex net of different think thanks.
Nobody wants to read a newspaper article in which there are 100 different names of people in it from people who sit in some think tank to bankers, to people in the administration, to employees of companies etc.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

But, how are we going to affect the people who buy the politicians when they buy the lawmakers? They make it impossible for any nonaffiliated entity to even make a real run for office because they'll never have enough money to market their candidate.

First of all there are three steps that must be done before the others can be done.
1. Campaign finance reform
2 Severe regulations over lobbist
3. Regulate the news industry's stock ownership because currently they are controlled by special interests.

If you did the above three things you'd have less special interests in Washington and the press would be free to report things that the US people don't currently know. Once that's done the following could then be worked on.

4. Taking the Federal Reserve out of private bank hands and putting it into the hands of publicly traded banks.
5. Stopping said private banks from owning shares in any media outlets
6. Stopping said private banks from owning shares in Halliburton and other gov't contracting agencies
7. Creating a law that politicians cannot be former employees of healtcare companies, or other gov't regulated industries.
8. Life without parol for anyone in Federal Gov't caught taking a bribe or financing from private interests. This would get their attention.

A lot people think its companies like Microsoft or other businesses that they understand paying lobbist. Its true that they do but its really more complex than that. Its private funds and private banks that own shares in our Federal Reserve and then also own shares in NBC, CBS, Halliburton, Exxon and so on. Its not Exxon the company sticking it to the American people its the big share holders who own shares in Exxon but also own shares in the news outlets and in defense companies. There is an investor cross breeding of power and control. Its much more powerful than Exxon as a company.

People see these corporations as catering to the shareholders but which shareholders. Your grandma that has $1,000 in Class C shares or the $2billion in Class A shares and a seat on the board for one of your employees to represent your group as a shareholder?

The special interest system isn't really understood by most and its at the private and investor level that it all happens. We think of our gov't and these companies as having policies and systems in place and we think of our President as being a decider but the real deciders have so much money that they own interests in all of it; on both sides and even in our media. This is so powerful that it can shift tides in the gov't, corporate America and even in popular opinion.

Every year some of the wealthiest people in the world get together and have a meeting about the world economy and its not even reported on any US news station. Wouldn't you think that type of subject would make news? Why does it make news in London, in India, in South America but it doesn't make news in the US? Often US congress people attend. Did you know its illegal for congress people to meet behind closed doors with representative with other country's without creating a record or report? Imagine a meeting with some of the top corporations in the world, representatives from various countries and banks meeting and it not even making the news. The meeting is called the Bildaberg group. Youtube it. Its not a conspiracy theory that they meet and I am not drawing any world domination conclusions. I'm simply asking why its not a major news event? Are the news channels told not to report it? And by who? Thats my only question.

You can look at companies like GM and see that they invested over $1 billion in Hydrogen technology. It was partially funded by the US Gov't and by our tax dollars. Now, lets say you own shares of GM, do you think that betting it all on Hydrogen was a good bet? Maybe, maybe not but lets say your private investment bank had $1 billion invested in GM and $4billion invested in Exxon. Now as a shareholder who has influence with the gov't and as a shareholder with a major stake in GM and in distributed energy would you say its a good investment? So you see, special interests not only infilitrate the gov't but they infilitrate the companies as well. Even if GM's bet makes them fold as a company and Toyota's bet on Hybrid Techology turns out to be more feasible (which currently it is), the private equity group's investors may still profit but you as a Class C shareholder in GM would loose. Its you who bring's the fool's money to the table with your retirement but its the special interests who will always profit. Its about leveraging investments between industries and hiring lobbists to do it.

I'm probably boring most of you with this but I really don't think your average person really understands how the big guys do it. They don't see the game being played. We just sit in front of the TV and watch the news being fed to us by the same guys who are profiting off printing our money, off every weapon, off healthcare, off oil and so on. Thats why we have a two party system folks; so the special interests can control us. We're sheep consumers who should shut up, consume and keep plugged in to the crap they're feeding us. Call me crazy and just go back to sleep; you'll rest better not knowing how bad it really is.

[Brutha]