Questions about American Revolution

[Lauxa]

A couple of hundred years ago, a bunch of guys decided that they were living under tyranny. Over-taxed, under-represented, they decided to take matters into their own hands, form their own government, and fight the guys who said they couldn't do this.

So, were they justified in this or not? This is a big question, because if the answer is "yes" it implies that any people living under tyranny should maybe do the same thing today. And then the question becomes how to define tyranny and how to tell if you are living under one.

How does this fit in with "raising your consciousness" and intention manifestation and all that? Does IM imply that if the American forefathers had just intended to be free of the British government, they could have found a peaceful solution?

"Freedom is never free" they say, and indeed, throughout history, moving to a state of higher freedom has always involved violent conflict. Is freedom worth fighting for?

[Dave Kaminski]

Maybe?! Of course they should.

Fighting, sure. Depends on the context, though, and the 'fighting' involved.

Revolution would be much easier if we could dissipate their tools of control. If the government had no one fighting for them (the army) and no form of control in their hands (the news) then they would be much easier to dissolve.

If we can get the people in the army and the people in the media to want to peacefully revolt then we can much more easily create a revolution, IMO.

[viscapes]

Ghandi certainly showed us that peaceful revolution is indeed possible - something that most people before him doubted. Certainly with the shifting moral zeitgeist moving further towards the principals of freedom, liberty, justice and peace then it should be easier now than it ever was.

Did the leaders of the American Revolution need to fight? Yes. Is Freedom worth fighting for? Of course it is. Do we still have to fight for it? Certainly not in the majority of cases. Do we have to protect it? Yes we do, with everything we have.

[Brutha]

I am not completly against revolutions but you should keep in mind that fighting is very dirty.
Civil wars kill a lot of people and you certainly can't really protect innocent people from getting hit from time to time.
If you fight a government like the USA activly with weapons you also destroy a lot of civil liberties if you don't succeed.
If you get a bomb to blow of every week in the US, you will get legislation that is much more severe than the patriotic act.

A fight could also turn the US into a hallow state with wouldn't recover.

"Freedom is never free" they say, and indeed, throughout history, moving to a state of higher freedom has always involved violent conflict.

That is just false.
Gandhi succeeded without violence.
The Berlin Wall also fell without violence.

Is freedom worth fighting for?

It certainly is. But you should also keep in mind that the word freedom means different things to different people.
One of the reasons the US fights in Iraq is to etablish ecomnomic freedom that allows US firms to make money in Iraq.

Al Quaeda also fights for freedom. The religious argument is basically that you aren't free if you follow an other authority than god (or Allah).
Martin Luther also fought more or less for that kind of freedom to surrender yourself to god.

In the US you could change something if you would get a majority of US citizen behind you.
Change Congress — Home is an example for a movement that could indeed change something when it would get a lot of support from American citizens.

[Lauxa]

People always like to bring up how Gandhi effected political change through non-violent methods. However, Gandhi had a lot of "supporters" who were violent, even though he condemned their actions. The same is true of MLK. How can we know that non-violent methods would have succeeded without this violence? Perhaps this is just a myth perpetuated by those in power who would rather face non-violent opposition. Or perhaps it is like viscapes says and human morality is evolving to a point where a peaceful appeal is now possible.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

A couple of hundred years ago, a bunch of guys decided that they were living under tyranny. Over-taxed, under-represented, they decided to take matters into their own hands, form their own government, and fight the guys who said they couldn't do this.

Yes this is how our history is taught to us but its not exactly true.

These bunch of guys didn't just meet up as individual farmers or something like that. They were financed by the Bank of North America which had very wealthy bankers from Europe as the share holders.

The American Revolutionary War was one between the UK and the Private Bankers fighting for control of the future business and wealth to be sucked out of the US and the common people like you and I.

Visit Banking in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The war was won and the US then became the preferred free capitalist vehicle that is ran and controlled by special interests.

To this day our Federal Reserve is privately owned under a very similar system.

History has been distorted beyond belief.

I recently spoke to a friend of mine who has a degree in Economics and he didn't even know that our Federal Reserve is privately held. I referred him to the Fed's own website. After doing research he was shocked to say the least.

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

Yes this is how our history is taught to us but its not exactly true.

These bunch of guys didn't just meet up as individual farmers or something like that. They were financed by the Bank of North America which had very wealthy bankers from Europe as the share holders.

The American Revolutionary War was one between the UK and the Private Bankers fighting for control of the future business and wealth to be sucked out of the US and the common people like you and I.

Visit Banking in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The war was won and the US then became the preferred free capitalist vehicle that is ran and controlled by special interests.

To this day our Federal Reserve is privately owned under a very similar system.

History has been distorted beyond belief.

I recently spoke to a friend of mine who has a degree in Economics and he didn't even know that our Federal Reserve is privately held. I referred him to the Fed's own website. After doing research he was shocked to say the least.

I think I offended some people talking about the Revolutionary War a few years ago (it's still not something my knowledge is too sharp on, I like ancient history much more). I said something along the lines of "It sounds to me that what happened in reality would be similar to, today, if Bill Gates and a handful of other rich elites decided they no longer wanted to pay taxes to the (US) government, and so led people into a revolt that would just end up having the people pay taxes to Bill Gates and his crew instead of the government they were paying them to before. Of course, they'd have plenty of stories about "glory" and "honor" so the masses wouldn't even notice. No one seemed to like my comparison on an emotional level (it could be wildly historically incorrect though, I'm not certain).

[Lauxa]

I thought that originally there was no central bank for the United States, then at some point it was started, then Andrew Jackson dissolved it during his presidency, then it came back after the Great Depression to "stabilize" the economy?

You know, I never thought to look into the financing behind the American Revolution. I will look at that Wiki site you listed, Still Growing, and if you have any other resources on this I would be interested to see them.

[Still Growing]

Lauxa,

Our current Federal Reserve has 13 private banks that own this company. One of the banks is the Rothschild bank. Let me give you a quote...

"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws." Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.

Over history many bankers discovered that religion and monarchs are bad for business. The UK's control over the US would have empowered the monarch but instead the wealthy banks took control over the US.

For some more interesting quotes go to:
Who Has Said What About the Creation of the Money Supply by the Private Banks - About Money - Money - Money Reform Party

I am not a conspiracy theorist but I am a realist. When it involves finance most people become mentally lazy and they fall back on what they were taught in school. If you simply look at the facts that lay before us you probably will be surprised by what you dig up...

I'm a serial entrepreneur and I feel that I have a knack for spotting the flow of money... I am by no means a victim of the system and I'm not bitter. I know how their mind's work. If you follow the money you'll find the puppet masters who are pulling the strings. Its a simply concept.

People give to much legitimacy to their gov'ts and think that it couldn't happen here. If you look at old empires like Rome's you'll see murder, espionage, treason, and controlling the masses with wine and show. This world is all about sheep herders and sheep. The sheep herders have evolved so that they are sitting up in the house and behind the scenes. The sheep wake up every day and go through their motions not seeing or even believing that the sheep herder is controlling them. He decides what pastures they graze or when their wool will be cut. Its a very complex system and all the sheep know is that as long as there is grass and water they stay in line. On some days we all feel like our wool has been taken by somebody to somewhere. The sheep see the truck load of wool being driven off but they go back to grazing pretty quickly. If sheep could talk I would imagine one talking about breaking free or going on about that damn sheep herder but all the other sheep would probably just baaaaaa.

[viscapes]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

People give to much legitimacy to their gov'ts and think that it couldn't happen here. If you look at old empires like Rome's you'll see murder, espionage, treason, and controlling the masses with wine and show. This world is all about sheep herders and sheep. The sheep herders have evolved so that they are sitting up in the house and behind the scenes. The sheep wake up every day and go through their motions not seeing or even believing that the sheep herder is controlling them. He decides what pastures they graze or when their wool will be cut. Its a very complex system and all the sheep know is that as long as there is grass and water they stay in line. On some days we all feel like our wool has been taken by somebody to somewhere. The sheep see the truck load of wool being driven off but they go back to grazing pretty quickly. If sheep could talk I would imagine one talking about breaking free or going on about that damn sheep herder but all the other sheep would probably just baaaaaa.

That's a great analogy. I find that for 2-3 days of the month I'm the sheep trying to convince the others about the wool pinching herders. I get all frustrated and then I go back to grazing and baaaa'ing my way through life again.

You have to hand it to those herders, they're good.

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by viscapes

You have to hand it to those herders, they're good.

I think that's what "Baaaaa." translates to.