Here is the country the US wants to murder people in.

[Dan.Linehan]

Some images of Tehran, Iran that you won't see on the news.

This is the country the Bush administration wants to bomb, destroy and murder civilians in.

These are the people Bush has labeled as terrorists: normal, everyday people like you and I.

Peacetrain - Images of Iran

We might as well be ramping up to bomb Colorado.

[wolfgang]

If the US people could vote on invading and dropping bombs - would Iraq have happened?

Would the people of USA actually tell the government to do what it did and wants to do next?

Is USA still a government of the people, for the people?

[Amadeus]

This is the country the Bush administration wants to bomb, destroy and murder civilians in.

Good God Dan you are fanatical! When did the Bush administration state that we were going nuclear bomb Iran? Slick willie Clinton bombed Iraq during his administration and we accidentally bombed the Chinese embassy killing civilians. I bet you anything that you didn't blog about this or mention this when it happened in 1999. If it happened today you would ignore it. Hilary Clinton recently said she would blow Iran off the map if it threatened Israel. The hypocracy!

The people of Iran for the most part are good people. The majority of them are under 30, but there is no doubt that their government is radical and would love to destroy Israel. Do you have something against Jews Dan? If Israel were populated with 100 percent homosexuals would you feel any differently? Israel's prime minister has never threatened to destroy Iran. If we were to launch an attack on Iran it would be strategically. Would civilians accidentally die? Of course. But it wouldn't be like a carpet bombing on the Iranian civilians like the Germans and British did to each other in WW2.

[Joeschmoe]

Oh yea, Dan is thinking narrowly.

I love that response, "What do you have against Jews?" Obviously someone who thinks that we shouldn't take aggressive action against Iran is anti-semitic. <sarcasm>.

Where did you get nuclear bombs from anyway?

[schola]

Originally Posted by Joeschmoe

Oh yea, Dan is thinking narrowly.

I love that response, "What do you have against Jews?" Obviously someone who thinks that we shouldn't take aggressive action against Iran is anti-semitic. <sarcasm>.

Where did you get nuclear bombs from anyway?

You don't like nukes? What do you have against nuclear bomb workers?

[Joeschmoe]

Obviously my real intention is to make nuclear scientists' kids starve to death.

[Amadeus]

Oh yea, Dan is thinking narrowly.
I love that response, "What do you have against Jews?" Obviously someone who thinks that we shouldn't take aggressive action against Iran is anti-semitic.

Joe you find something wrong with my post yet you completely ignore Dan's title HERE IS THE COUNTRY THE US WANTS TO MURDER PEOPLE IN. It's obvious you have a horse in this race and you decide to ignore other's stance on things. So when Dan says the US wants to murder people in Iran does he mean every, man, woman, and child wants to kill Iranians?

[schola]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

So when Dan says the US wants to murder people in Iran does he mean every, man, woman, and child wants to kill Iranians?

Dude, this isn't the Sean Hannity forums. Strawman fallacies like that won't fly here. I mean, sure there are a bunch of wacko libs in these parts, but they are not stupid.

[Amadeus]

schola you are taking what I said point blank, why shouldn't I?

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by schola

Dude, this isn't the Sean Hannity forums. Strawman fallacies like that won't fly here. I mean, sure there are a bunch of wacko libs in these parts, but they are not stupid.

Its not a liberal forum either Schola. Its about Personal Development for Smart People. It would be rational to say that there are both intelligent people who are Dems and Reps. Altough not every position they take is always the right one.

Dan makes many political statements which are extremely liberal and Amadeus makes statements which are extremely right wing. I don't agree with either of them in many posts I read that they write.

Amadeus was obviously offended by the post's title and the assumption that Bush wants wipe out all Iranians.

Humans are funny animals that usually can only see data that supports their position.

If you've never been to Iran or been around Iranians you should. Its a country full of great people. But you should also know that Ahmadinejad's approval rating in Iran is almost as low as Bush's here in the US.

No offense Dan and Amadeus but you are both so bias you can't see all the facts.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Is USA still a government of the people, for the people?

No.

[Dave Kaminski]

Dan made this thread to open awareness to those who have only seen the pictures on the news of Tehran.

It looks like the only people responding to it already know about a.) the "harm" the US is doing or b.) the "good" the US is doing.

This thread was more for those silent viewers out there who don't necessarily think to Google this stuff on their own. If they're not in the US, they probably already know that Iran is much like many civilized(lol) countries. If they are from the US, though, he may be opening the eyes of some whose are usually only subjected to that which they see on the news.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

Its not a liberal forum either Schola. Its about Personal Development for Smart People. It would be rational to say that there are both intelligent people who are Dems and Reps. Altough not every position they take is always the right one.

Don't get me wrong. I like Sean Hannity. I turn him on when I need a laugh everyone now and then.

I think Steve needs to get his own radio show like the conservative radio pundits.

He could call all the bad guys "Low-Cons" and we could all call in and say a little catch phrase like "Live Consciously Steve." And we could rant all day about how the Low-Cons are just friggin' DESTROYING the country and complain about how corrupt and hypocritical the Low-Cons are, while we turn a blind eye to the bad things our own guys are doing. And he could give away free stuff to callers like a cheap shirt with "Live Consciously" on the front of it (which, by the way is 100% High-Consciousness made thank you very much)


Sorry, I will stop derailing this thread now.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by schola

He could call all the bad guys "Low-Cons" and we could all call in and say a little catch phrase like "Live Consciously Steve." And we could rant all day about how the Low-Cons are just friggin' DESTROYING the country and complain about how corrupt and hypocritical the Low-Cons are, while we turn a blind eye to the bad things our own guys are doing. And he could give away free stuff to callers like a cheap shirt with "Live Consciously" on the front of it (which, by the way is 100% High-Consciousness made thank you very much)

Love it.

Thanks for the laugh!

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by schola

Don't get me wrong. I like Sean Hannity. I turn him on when I need a laugh everyone now and then.

I think Steve needs to get his own radio show like the conservative radio pundits.

He could call all the bad guys "Low-Cons" and we could all call in and say a little catch phrase like "Live Consciously Steve." And we could rant all day about how the Low-Cons are just friggin' DESTROYING the country and complain about how corrupt and hypocritical the Low-Cons are, while we turn a blind eye to the bad things our own guys are doing. And he could give away free stuff to callers like a cheap shirt with "Live Consciously" on the front of it (which, by the way is 100% High-Consciousness made thank you very much)

You act as if there are no liberal radio or TV pundits currently. You are also assuming that the liberal side is not hypocritical just like the Sean Hannities of the world.

I view myself to be independent but often falling on the left side with some issues and the right side with other issues. I think there is a growing population of those that are neither liberal nor conservative.

As an Independent I don't have much choice on who to vote for... I guess all I have are blogs like this to point out how both liberals and conservatives are hypocritical.

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

You act as if there are no liberal radio or TV pundits currently. You are also assuming that the liberal side is not hypocritical just like the Sean Hannities of the world.

I view myself to be independent but often falling on the left side with some issues and the right side with other issues. I think there is a growing population of those that are neither liberal nor conservative.

As an Independent I don't have much choice on who to vote for... I guess all I have are blogs like this to point out how both liberals and conservatives are hypocritical.

All you need to do is observe people to see the hypocrisy.

All you need to do is act with honesty and introspection to eliminate it.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

I guess all I have are blogs like this to point out how both liberals and conservatives are hypocritical.

I find most people to be hypocritical in one way or another.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

You act as if there are no liberal radio or TV pundits currently. You are also assuming that the liberal side is not hypocritical just like the Sean Hannities of the world.

Ha, I think you are jumping to conclusions.

I am making assumptions because I omitted criticism of another group of people in my post? Maybe I just don't care to write any more on the subject? I suppose if I were to be intellectually honest, I could make sure I criticize every pundit that has ever spoken on radio, but that would be a very long post.

Maybe Dan is the same. He has his reasons for choosing to focus on the Republican party. We are currently living under a Republican Presidency, so maybe that is why? That doesn't mean he is being intellectually dishonest or biased.

Talk radio is strictly a conservative phenomenon, unless you consider that miserable failure Air America. That is why I chose the words that I did. Anyone who knows talk radio would understand what I meant.

If you feel there is no one on these boards holding Democrats and liberals responsible, take up the job yourself! Don't criticize others for not doing it.

[Still Growing]

Schola,
You said "This isn't the Sean Hannity forums...". I am only saying that its not the liberal forums either. I am also saying that both sides are hypocritical.

If you feel that I am jumping to conclusions on your position then there must be a failure in communication.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I find most people to be hypocritical in one way or another.

I read most of the posts you make Aspiring and they usually jump off the page at me. I especially found it interesting about your support for communism and dislike of capitalism.

Do you think that Liberals are probably equally as hypocritical as conservatives?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

Do you think that Liberals are probably equally as hypocritical as conservatives?

Sure. Like I said, I think most people are hypocritical about something.

And, admittedly, sometimes I do think conservatives are more hypocritical than liberals. But that's most likely because I favor a more liberal view and therefore notice it more in the "opposition." I'm not perfect either as I am sure it quite clear .

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Sure. Like I said, I think most people are hypocritical about something.

And, admittedly, sometimes I do think conservatives are more hypocritical than liberals. But that's most likely because I favor a more liberal view and therefore notice it more in the "opposition." I'm not perfect either as I am sure it quite clear .

I saw you stand up for freedom of speech in the thread about Canada outlawing anti abortion protestors.

I love to see a person have principles that are balanced even when its not in their interest. Well done.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

I saw you stand up for freedom of speech in the thread about Canada outlawing anti abortion protestors.

I love to see a person have principles that are balanced even when its not in their interest. Well done.

Thanks.

Anything else I say will sound way too self-congratulatory.

[Brutha]

I view myself to be independent but often falling on the left side with some issues and the right side with other issues. I think there is a growing population of those that are neither liberal nor conservative.

Dan is someone who wrote that he donated money to a republican (Ron Paul).

Neither schola (also a Ron Paul supporter) nor Dan are really on the democratic party line but rather independent and are rather Republican because they supported a Republican candidat and if I understand the us system right you have to register with a party to vote in primaries.

Do you think that Liberals are probably equally as hypocritical as conservatives?

It are strange times when somebody who fights for a gold standard is called unconservative.

You said "This isn't the Sean Hannity forums...". I am only saying that its not the liberal forums either.

But it's a forum in which promoting war isn't equal to promoting peace.

[Still Growing]

Brutha,
I don't care who spent money where. I don't need categories or labels to disagree with something someone says.

I am taking quotes I read that I disagree with and making points.

The two points I have made here are:

1. Its neither a liberal nor conservative controlled blog. Everyone can post their opinion. Do you agree?
2. In my estimation both liberals and conservatives can both be hypocritical at times. Do you agree?

Brutha, you and I have history. You misunderstand me, I explain, you misunderstand again, I explain then finally you can see that we agree. I find myself agreeing with almost everything you say but you disagreeing with almost everything I say because you misunderstood what I was saying.... Whew ... Oh Brutha.

[Brutha]

1. Its neither a liberal nor conservative controlled blog. Everyone can post their opinion. Do you agree?

Yes, I and other moderators agree that everyone can participate, otherwise Amadeus posts wouldn't be here.

In my estimation both liberals and conservatives can both be hypocritical at times. Do you agree?

Yes, you are right (I haven't don't have a problem with hypocritcals and read someone who calls himself a hypocritical like Andrew Keen but that is another matter).

But what has that to do with this thread? It seems that you see people as being on the liberals/democrats camp.
Pointing to liberal talk show hosts matters only when you associate any political loyality to schola.
I know that you are enough inside the politcal system to have political loyalities as you say to independent blogs (I have them too, while not so much to American politcs but to Eurpoean).
But someone like schola is more an independent indepentent.

In general this site is very far out of the mainstream.

But someone like schola doesn't take societies mainstream leftish position. The classic liberal hyprocritical talkshow host you are thinking about isn't in scholas's camp.

I don't understand scholas post as pushing to the left but as pushing against strawman fallacies.

I don't care who spent money where. I don't need categories or labels to disagree with something someone says.

If you use capitalised Liberals, that's a label.
As a Eurpoean calling left people liberal is always seems a bit strange given classic liberals such as Adam Smith or modern ones like Milton Friedman.
As a European or Canadian on the left you are in big trouble if someone thinks that you are neoliberal.

I find myself agreeing with almost everything you say but you disagreeing with almost everything I say because you misunderstood what I was saying.... Whew ... Oh Brutha.

In the other thread you complained about people who do categorise and tread people how are nearer on their side as special and agree with them on every point.
I know that you are probably one of the people in this forum you is the nearest to my political views, but I still think that discussion is useful.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Brutha

It are strange times when somebody who fights for a gold standard is called unconservative.

It seems like the US has such a limited political spectrum compared to Europe. Our labels are completely wacky. Our Republicans and Democrats actually agree on almost everything that matters (I think they are wrong too, but that's another story.)

Classical Liberals were free market, small government promoters. That changed in the 1930s with FDR and the "New Liberals." Then the "conservatives" rose up to oppose them, but although they called themselves conservatives, they were closer to the classical liberal philosophy than the new liberals. These days in the United States we'd probably call them libertarians.

NOW, seventy years later our political spectrum has moved even more left and become more constricted. Our "liberals" are actually socialists. And our "conservatives" are just socialists with an authoritarian bent. Geez. So confusing.

While I don't agree with the organization of most European governments, I appreciate that there is more variety and less taboos. "Socialist" is a curse word here.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

Schola,
You said "This isn't the Sean Hannity forums...". I am only saying that its not the liberal forums either. I am also saying that both sides are hypocritical.

If you feel that I am jumping to conclusions on your position then there must be a failure in communication.

I agree with you so maybe there is some miscommunication.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by schola

It seems like the US has such a limited political spectrum compared to Europe. Our labels are completely wacky. Our Republicans and Democrats actually agree on almost everything that matters (I think they are wrong too, but that's another story.)

Classical Liberals were free market, small government promoters. That changed in the 1930s with FDR and the "New Liberals." Then the "conservatives" rose up to oppose them, but although they called themselves conservatives, they were closer to the classical liberal philosophy than the new liberals. These days in the United States we'd probably call them libertarians.

NOW, seventy years later our political spectrum has moved even more left and become more constricted. Our "liberals" are actually socialists. And our "conservatives" are just socialists with an authoritarian bent. Geez. So confusing.

While I don't agree with the organization of most European governments, I appreciate that there is more variety and less taboos. "Socialist" is a curse word here.

I agree that the two party system is no good. The special interests L O V E this because its so easy to keep these guys in their pocket. I also completely agree that the conservatives are not conservative anymore. Its a joke.

I'm not a big fan of socialism and I much prefer capitalism but since when did non compete gov't contracts, neputism, and special interests have anything to do with capitalism. The US is capitalistic at the lower levels but when it comes to oil, healtcare and weapons....capitalism is DEAD.

We should start with campaign finance reform, have gov't financed elections and chase the lobbyists out of Washington.

[Ninja]

And you also don't see the gay couples who have fled to my country because they faced death in Iran. The city looks lovely on the outside, but what goes on behind closed doors?

I think it is wrong for the US to go on a killing spree, but those in glass houses should not cast stones.