Survivalists...Really?

[Restrikted]

I just got done reading an article about survivalists, which made the front page of digg. I don't know about you, but isn't this whole thing just a few problems happening all at once coupled with waaay too much paranoia?

Okay, first off the oil supply. There hasn't been a decline in oil production or anything. The world is actually producing more oil now than ever before. The only reason prices are so high is because the speculators are making the prices rise. It's all in the mentality of the situation. If you think the prices will rise and there will be an oil crisis, the prices will most definitely rise and there will be a crisis. I personally hope we get to a million dollars a barrel, then our government will actually kick into gear and start to really try to make a cost efficient alternative fuel source.

Then on to the whole rising cost of food thing. Do you wanna really know why your food costs more money now? One word, PRIUS. The government, in it's infinite wisdom, decided it would be a good idea to make sure we are producing 36 billion gallons of biofuel by 2022, 15 of which is to be made from corn-based ethanol. Economics 101, if you start to use more of America's cornfields for producing ethanol instead of feeding it's people, the prices are going to go up, not just in the corn-based food, but in almost everything. Farmers will start to produce less wheat because it's more profitable to plant corn, driving those prices up, the cost of feeding chickens and cows and pigs goes up, pretty much affecting the entire market.

Why are the survivalists so tweaked from these two problems, thinking the world's economies will come crashing to the ground? Isn't it time to start thinking about solutions instead of just running for the hills?

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by Restrikted

Why are the survivalists so tweaked from these two problems, thinking the world's economies will come crashing to the ground? Isn't it time to start thinking about solutions instead of just running for the hills?

Oh, there are solutions. (We don't need so much corn if we're not using it to feed cattle) They have been "thought up" and are just being ignored.

First off, biofuels are not the answer for the US. You would need to cover the whole country with biofuel crop to keep those gas guzzlers fed.

"Turning plants such as corn, soybeans and sunflowers into fuel uses much more energy than the resulting ethanol or biodiesel generates."

The jury is still out, too, on whether hemp biofuel would make any more sense. Sure, after removing the oil, it would also make for very nutritious food. I think that alone makes it worth a shot. Too bad marijuana is the "Devil's Drug" or whatever.

The problem is that the crises is being manufactured for the profit of the people that own a.) the corn b.) the oil and c.) the money. They're all working together because they're all essentially the same people!

It's only going to work that way because they want it to. It used to be a problem only of nations (The US stock market crashes) but in this day and age it is now a global one because of the reach of the US and the power its people have and don't even realize.

[JSB]

This site claims that oil prices are being artificially driven up by Iran and Venzuela to benefit themselves and hurt the US economy. I don't vouch for it's accuracy, but it is an interesting article, and if true, I would expect some sort of US retaliation (economic or military) within the next few months.

Iran & Venezuela use oil tankers to manipulate global markets | World-Check

[JSB]

Originally Posted by Dave Kaminski

Oh,

First off, biofuels are not the answer for the US. You would need to cover the whole country with biofuel crop to keep those gas guzzlers fed.

I would have to agree that biofuels, as currently produced, are not an answer for the US, but I think that in the long term, biofuels are definitely the answer. Corn to ethanol is a disaster, but switchgrass or high-cellulose agricultural waste to ethanol could be very productive, as they aren't food-based; switchgrass can also be grown on land that is unsuitable for food-crop production. Eventually, I believe that algae based biodiesel will end up producing a large percentage of fuel worldwide. It has a far higher potential yield per acre than any other biofuel, and can be cultivated in wastewater ponds.

Also, expect synthfuel (oil from coal) to make an appearance, though it is not a good long-term solution due to high pollution from mining and distillation. It may however, be a useful "holdover" as we transition to fully renewable biofuels or all-electric vehicles.

[Restrikted]

I know that there ARE solutions, I'm just trying to make a point for these people to simply not start panicking about an impending armageddon. It's a big deal, but not THAT big a deal where you change your entire lifestyle.

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by Restrikted

I know that there ARE solutions, I'm just trying to make a point for these people to simply not start panicking about an impending armageddon. It's a big deal, but not THAT big a deal where you change your entire lifestyle.

If there are already solutions, and they're not being implemented, is that not reason for panic?

If someone were about to shoot you, and you knew you could step out of the way, but you waited too long, you'd get shot!

[Angela]

panic: a sudden overwhelming fear, with or without cause, that produces hysterical or irrational behavior, and that often spreads quickly through a group of persons or animals.

How exactly would panic help?

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by Angela

How exactly would panic help?

Don't be so quick to think of the word in it's standard definition, Ang - open up that mind I know you can do it!

Panic! It's more beautiful than anything. The way it's defined is to mean that the actions are irrational by CURRENT STANDARDS.

Panic in these times would be nothing short of beautiful, in my opinion. TEAR EVERYTHING DOWN AND START ANEW! Irrational, yes, by society's standards - but by the standards of human kind? I think not!

The current infrastructure NEEDS rebuilding! Torch what we've got and build back up! The lack of "logic" from a conventional sense is what inspires me to think it would work moreso - how can we take our definitions from such a broken source!?!?!

[Angela]

Spoken like a true anarchist, Dave. No, thanks to fear-based destruction.

You go right on ahead, though.

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by Angela

Spoken like a true anarchist, Dave. No, thanks to fear-based destruction.

You go right on ahead, though.

It's not anarchy at all!

I'm voting to re-establish with the primers of love and peace.

Creation.. destruction.. creation.. destruction..

[Angela]

If you tear everything you see down in your panic, I think your panic will be your building material.

If you want to rebuild with love and peace, you're going to have to start with love and peace.

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by Angela

If you tear everything you see down in your panic, I think your panic will be your building material.

If you want to rebuild with love and peace, you're going to have to start with love and peace.

The collapse of the Berlin Wall was not a move of love and peace?

I think you're tying destruction and hate/fear together - that, I believe, is called prejudice.

Kali would say otherwise! Destruction and love are one and the same. I love freedom - time to break down anything that halts it!

[Angela]

No, I'm just seeing the connection between this particular fear and destruction. Not prejudice. Evaluation. It's not hard to see, Dave, when you revel in "the beauty of panic."

Well, like I said, you just go right ahead with your plan to destroy and rebuild everything. Looks like you've got an ally in Christian223! He's got some reference material you can use -- including the bible.

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by Angela

No, I'm just seeing the connection between this particular fear and destruction. Not prejudice. Evaluation. It's not hard to see, Dave, when you revel in "the beauty of panic."

Well, like I said, you just go right ahead with your plan to destroy and rebuild everything. Looks like you've got an ally in Christian223! He's got some reference material you can use -- including the bible.

Haha hitting me with the Bible huh? Not exactly what I'm going for...

It's not my plan it's just an idea - the current infrastructure rewards complacency and literally ignores those in poverty and works to hold down entire countries of people.

Destroying would work - a lot of things don't need rebuilding once destroyed though. Anarchy has such a negative connotation - I can see how panic does, too.

Maybe I'll have to rethink my nomenclature (which I never do!) to get my point across further, as I really do see some worth in this theory.

Ron Paul asked for it when he said he'd tear down the fed and cut the government way down, and I imagine you were on his side; I'm just not so good as he at holding my passion back. It engulfs me in these situations.

I can see why you'd want to keep it standing; you know, it's comfortable and all. Honestly though, one way or another, when it crashes, more people will awaken. Is this not the goal? To break more people free?

What more could we want of our fellow human than for them to be able to experience all that life has to offer? Do you not think we will find greater depth in ourselves if they break free, through the sheer power of collective consciousness?

[garentee]

As long as farmers are PAID through subsidies to not farm certain tracts of land there will be this kind of pressure. Remove the subsidies and the small farmer will prosper even more, and the playing field will actually be more level. It is important to support those farmers that do not take those subsidies. I myself refuse to take those subsidies (not that anyone has ever offered). I do not know the exact figure of land that is not farmed due to the subsidy program, but I am sure it is more than ten percent.
There are no easy answers to the energy situation. In my humble opinion, there needs to be several new technologies implemented. The reality is that there WILL be these technologies because there is a lot of $$to be made off of them.

[Brutha]

The collapse of the Berlin Wall was not a move of love and peace?

Yes, it hadn't much to do with panic.
People demonstratic orderly every monday and after some time they got through with their demands.

That not what people in the US did after Bush got into office through the court after the first time.

You didn't had the support amoung the American people then to stand up for principles and you don't have it nowadays either.

Destroying would work - a lot of things don't need rebuilding once destroyed though.

Assuming that you are the one who will decide what gets rebuiled and what doesn't is a huge error.
Once you create panic, why shouldn't the people with the power be able to decide how everything gets rebuild?

[Dave Kaminski]

OK Guys without going back and editing I will say here that PANIC WAS A POOR CHOICE OF WORD, because you're having a tough time looking past that word choice.

I'm using panic as a sense of awakening in the common populace. Sort of how V in V for Vendetta created "panic" and rallied people behind him through it.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Dave Kaminski

OK Guys without going back and editing I will say here that PANIC WAS A POOR CHOICE OF WORD, because you're having a tough time looking past that word choice.

Dave, that has the ring of a Hillary Clinton apology: "I'm sorry you guys are too stupid to get what I'm saying." (I know you don't mean that, though.)

Listen, there's a lot of political and other infrastructure that I would like to see dismantled and something better be constructed in its place. And possibly it's going to take some emotional wellspring to get people speaking and acting together effectively to make a difference. And I think it's like romantic relationships -- if you break up with rancor and upset, you'll bring that rancor and upset, or some distorted version of it, into your next relationship. That's just not the kind of difference I want to make. But as I said a couple of times, go for it if it inspires you!

By the way, the bible comment was referring to Christian223's thread in which he links to some biblical and other predictions of impending crises. I thought you might have seen it.

[Dave Kaminski]

Yep I have seen it, but your implicit suggestion of the Bible sounded more like a prod (which might have been a smart one) because I'm not exactly pro-Christian (breaking down the idea of the existence of 'Hell' is another thing I'd like to do).

I'm not saying you're too dumb at all; just the opposite - I don't know the words to use to express what I'm looking to do. Probably because I don't find any words that mean destruction with a positive connotation.

[schola]

I personally hope we get to a million dollars a barrel, then our government will actually kick into gear and start to really try to make a cost efficient alternative fuel source.

I think you will suffer a lot more sitting around waiting for da gubment to fix everything for you than ignorant old Jim Bob with his cabin in the mountains. At least Jim Bob will have food and water.