Is going Green anti-Universal abundance?

[ogrekilleat]

If someone was truly grateful for what little they had, they would not hanker after more.

No matter how grateful I am for the food that's sustained me thus far, every few hours, I have powerful hankering for more.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by ogrekilleat

No matter how grateful I am for the food that's sustained me thus far, every few hours, I have powerful hankering for more.

Well, maybe LoA can help you manifest more - to help fill that bottomless pit.

There was a time when people thanked God at every meal for what they were about to receive.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Cantando

If someone was truly grateful for what little they had, they would not hanker after more.

Isn’t the whole ethos of LoA based on selling the idea of manifesting dreams? Why do some people dream? Because they are not happy with what they've got and they want more – enter LoA.

I'm not too much of a LoAist, I do try to understand what that mindset is.

I too have wondered about what makes someone dream. Or look for more. That is an interesting point to look at. Would the question would be "what makes one desire something they don't have?"

It it really necessary to not be happy with what you have to change or desire something else (not necessarily more)?

Does having the mindset, that one must be unhappy to want something else, work? Or is it easier to, and possible, to be happy but also desire something else?

Maybe most change comes for not wanting what you currently have. If you like your apartment and want a house - that says something about the apt. Right? It says you are growing out of the apt, that it doesn't give you what you are looking for, right? Maybe it doesn't say you don't like your apt, but it may say the apt is not fitting what you desire. just wondering out loud here...

[Mags]

Originally Posted by Cantando

There was a time when people thanked God at every meal for what they were about to receive.

Some people still do

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Mags

Some people still do

Well, I'm certainly glad it didn't die out with the Waltons!

Goodnight, John Boy!
Goodnight, Jason!
Goodnight, Ben!
Goodnight, Ellen!
Goodnight, Erin!
Goodnight, Elizabeth!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Well, maybe LoA can help you manifest more - to help fill that bottomless pit.

You can't fill a bottomless pit!

As the Abraham/Hicks books say, you will never be done. You will always have desires and contrasts.

[Ak47]

Originally Posted by Cantando

It will be interesting to see how it pans out. I wonder where we will draw the line between what is ‘wasteful’ and what is ‘not needful’, for example, with regard to the leisure industry - the vast amounts of energy required to run theme parks, cinema complexes, shopping malls, etc. Could we see an abstemious, puritanical attitude prevailing?

I am a big believer in that, more or less... if you are not happy, you cannot hope to make other people happy. While i cannot truthfully say that this is true or false, i think it is quite reasonable. While it is admirable, I don't think pure altruism is necessary to lead a "good" life. Besides, if someone cares about others, they deserve to enjoy themselves sometimes. Neh?

I think this is just a case of the golden mean; virtue. We shouldn't live our lives so frugally that we do not enjoy ourselves, just so future generations can have all the fun! However, we should be careful not to "over-do it," and have so much fun that we screw the prospect of being able to at least maintain our current state of "civilization." Really, we should be working on improving our civilization (in this case, energy producation), which we are. It's hard to say if we're doing enough or not though. That is really the arguement.

Oh well, that's my two cents.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Angela

You can't fill a bottomless pit!

As the Abraham/Hicks books say, you will never be done. You will always have desires and contrasts.

Exactly! LoA is a bottomless pit - desiring more and more for all eternity. Not my idea of heaven, hell perhaps!

The eye is not satisfied with seeing,
Nor is the ear filled with hearing.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Exactly! LoA is a bottomless pit - desiring more and more for all eternity. Not my idea of heaven, hell perhaps!

well, I think you and I might think of desire differently, Cantando.

I like how the Hicks's describe pure desire: fresh, eager anticipation, like a child's. This is a heavenly state.

I think many people think of desire as a stressful thing -- like something's wrong or lacking and must be fixed before satisfaction can be present. Constant craving with no gratitude or sense fulfillment; no allowing. I'm with you that that is hell!

[Jennihul]

Having grown up in a poverty mentality home with poverty mentality mom and dad and relatives and in a blue collar town, my only saving grace was that my mom, as frugal as she was, managed to have very wealthy friends. But I KNOW how poverty mentality feels. Not good.

My parents chose for us a beautiful home, in shabby disrepair, in a well-heeled neighborhood so that even though it took close to ten years to make the house liveable, we all had a good perspective on how life SHOULD be, not just how my relatives saw life after having lived through the Depression.

Poverty mentality is anti-LOA. Being cautious with money, careful not to pollute or live to excess or overstep your place in the world is not anti-LOA.

The easiest way to figure out if something is anti-LOA is by how it makes you FEEEEEEEEEEL doing it. If rejecting Walmart makes you feel good because they abuse their workers and ruin small town economies on a global scale and you feel good recycling and buying clothes on consignment because they are in too good shape and shouldn't just be thrown away...you are being pro-LOA.

If you feel guilty, sad, bad or martyrish being frugal or that you will be punished if you don't worry every second about the world and the state of things, you are being anti-LOA.

Doing what is good for my home, my planet and the people and species on it does not make me feel bad in the least.

Jennifer

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

Poverty mentality is anti-LOA. Being cautious with money, careful not to pollute or live to excess or overstep your place in the world is not anti-LOA.

The easiest way to figure out if something is anti-LOA is by how it makes you FEEEEEEEEEEL doing it. If rejecting Walmart makes you feel good because they abuse their workers and ruin small town economies on a global scale and you feel good recycling and buying clothes on consignment because they are in too good shape and shouldn't just be thrown away...you are being pro-LOA.

If you feel guilty, sad, bad or martyrish being frugal or that you will be punished if you don't worry every second about the world and the state of things, you are being anti-LOA.
Jennifer

I see what you are saying, but what if, for example, I feel good leaving a few lights on at night so my kids feel safer moving about the house. If I start thinking about Green issues and say, "Uh Oh, I'm wasting electricity here, I'd better start switching the lights off", then my kids and I would start to feel less good. Similar examples may start to appear and the poverty mentality would begin to creep in.

Where do we draw the line?
If I feel good leaving every single light and appliance switched on in the house, then, according to your post, that is pro-LoA.

[Somi]

Originally Posted by Cantando

I like to think there is infinite abundance in the universe and there is plenty of everything for everyone. However, I started a new job 3 months ago and they are very keen on saving. Staff go around switching off lights, computers and coffee machines when they are not in use. It’s not worth trying to get anything out of the stationery cupboard as you have to go through a load of admin just to get a paper clip.

My question is: how does a belief in universal abundance square up with green issues, saving energy and reducing pollution?

I think we still need to be concious and only use the resources as much as we need!

As Gandhi said "there is enough in the world for everyone's need but there is not enough for everyone's greed".

I think if we all only use stuff only as much as we geniuinly need then everyone will live a happy life

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Angela

well, I think you and I might think of desire differently, Cantando.

I like how the Hicks's describe pure desire: fresh, eager anticipation, like a child's. This is a heavenly state.

I think many people think of desire as a stressful thing -- like something's wrong or lacking and must be fixed before satisfaction can be present. Constant craving with no gratitude or sense fulfillment; no allowing. I'm with you that that is hell!

Hi Angela.

Eager anticipation in the present moment, in the expectation that the next moment will be joyful, is a valid spiritual teaching which has been around for thousands of years - from Buddhism, throught to Christianity and through many other belief systems.
It this is your principle understanding of LoA, then that's fine. I have no problem with that.

Part of the problem with LoA, however, is that it re-packages the word 'desire' for its own use. Desire just means wanting something.

The classic case is a child on Christmas Eve, eagerly anticipating the arrival of Santa with his presents. But, what came before the anticipation?
The child, previously, saw a toy in a shop window and wanted it. There are numerous reasons why he might have wanted it - selfish, altruistic, who knows?

On Christmas morning, there are numerous factors involved in how that child might react to receiving the present:

He may accept it with gratitude.
He may see his brother with a 'better' present and want that one instead.
The present may not meet his expectations - again, he may accept it or reject it.
He may not receive a present - how does he react to that?
His house may burn down during the night.

If we throw a general blanket over all thes factors and possibilities, and say, 'Well, it's all LoA acting in one way or another', then it ultimately becomes meaningless.

It's a bit like saying, 'God is everything - physical and non-physical, including everything we conceive in duality: good, bad, right, or wrong', and ...? It just doesn't really mean anything.

We can't possibly analyse all the factors, and combinations of factors, involved. To simply believe that every person attracts whatever comes, or can manifest whatever they want, is, in my opinion, somewhat facile.

[7 Secrets of Manifesting]

That's a very deep perspective you have.

I think going green is a good thing. Let's keep it simple here.

[Jennihul]

Originally Posted by Cantando

I see what you are saying, but what if, for example, I feel good leaving a few lights on at night so my kids feel safer moving about the house. If I start thinking about Green issues and say, "Uh Oh, I'm wasting electricity here, I'd better start switching the lights off", then my kids and I would start to feel less good. Similar examples may start to appear and the poverty mentality would begin to creep in.

Where do we draw the line?
If I feel good leaving every single light and appliance switched on in the house, then, according to your post, that is pro-LoA.

Well, just replace your bulbs with compact fluorescents and leave them on.

If there is a purpose and the purpose isn't mean or selfish or evil, then doing it isn't anti-anything. Your kids feel better with a couple lights on. NBD. There are also nightlights that use barely a penny a month. LED lights are also very low energy users.

I'm sure you, like I, keep an eye open for ways to be careful with resources. I also keep my porch lights on all night because I live at the end of a somewhat dark cul-de-sac and the one streetlight is not that bright. Without lights my house looks dark and gloomy and there is another house sort of kitty corner behind mine that has a long gloomy driveway and seems like an invitation to robbers when all the lights are out. It's something I have to do. So I use compact fluorescents and save a bundle of energy.

In fact, every lightbulb in my house that can be converted to compact fluorescent has been.

I don't feel like I have sacrificed anything. But I am doing my part.

Jennifer

[Barcs]

Well, just replace your bulbs with compact fluorescents and leave them on.

If there is a purpose and the purpose isn't mean or selfish or evil, then doing it isn't anti-anything. Your kids feel better with a couple lights on. NBD. There are also nightlights that use barely a penny a month. LED lights are also very low energy users

Exactly. My roommate uses night lights when his kids are over and it barely raises the electric bill at all.

I think the whole light on outside all the time thing is a little over paranoid though. Majority of robbers do not break in when people are home. I prefer my area dark to be honest. I used to have neighbors that did that and it was really annoying having that light shining toward my house when I'm trying to sleep.

[Jennihul]

Nah. It's totally a must. Having the porch lights on. Trust me. It's better for me. It doesn't shine in anyone's house more than the streetlight does or the other neighbors who leave theirs on or the ones with those huge spotlights on every side of their homes.

Jennifer

[Barcs]

Yeah, it's really those big spotlights that are so bothersome. I used to live on a lake and the guys directly across would always have their flood light on and it totally ruined the atmosphere. I could barely see any stars at all and it was just too bright. At least you have the florescent lights that don't consume as much energy. If you want to save even more you could set up a censor light that only activates when somebody is in the area and triggers it.

[Jennihul]

Yeah. I'm not a huge fan of those spotlight, security lights.

They have some that are motion detectors which would be a better choice. But the blinking on and off in a windy night would piss me off more, I think.

I like landscape lights. Nice low voltage uplights into a bush so you see the bush lit, not the light itself. Does wonders for security without being obtrusive.

I have a recessed porch and the lights are on either side of my door so it's not very glarey.

Jennifer

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by fwellers

Kinda curious how one gets a theory of universal abundance, when it's obvious the earth's natural resources are limited. Maybe there's more 'abundance' somewhere else in the universe, but here on earth, there is only so much.

This is an incorrect statement.

For example, when water goes down the drain does it disappear? Natural Resources are not limited... This is a common misconception...

A lot of people think the oil is about to run out. This is also incorrect; just oil that is cheaply obtained because it is so close to the top.

Air is also not limited.

I do agree that polution and taking care of the air is important since we need a clear sky to let the good rays shine through.

But to say "Here on earth there is only so much" is a PC statement to make but its simply not true.

Matter is not created nor destoryed... basic Physics.

[Still Growing]

Humans are funny animals... don't cha' think?

Imagine a monkey with its arms folded and chin turned up in discust as another money litters his banana peel into the river.

If you can really see yourself as the dumb animal you are you'll realize that most actions we take and most comments we make are so rediculous.

Vegans wearin leather shoes.
People debating about light bulbs while their 19" monitor and computer is burning energy.
Hollywood actors driving a Prius but still owning a private jet

I incourage you to sit at the mall and watch all the other funny monkeys walking around drinking venti lattes with recycled cups then going to the clothing store to buy the latest trendy clothing.

I am a materialist, I like coffee, I do the same things that I'm laughing about here.

I just know I'm a funny dumb money with an ego.

Don't you?