Oh, the irony!

[Marco Polo]

The point being, if you wanted to kick them where it hurts, you should stop snuffing out torches all over the globe that don't even mean anything. and boycott their products instead. Thank you.

(please let me know if you can't see the full image above)

[Jennihul]

Excellent post.

Do you think it's really possible that Americans are THAT completely unaware of their hypocricy?

I would give you the hands clapping smiley and the thumbs up smiley but they are at my other favorite forum.


Jennifer

[Erebos]

Is that from the Economist? It looks like Kal's drawing.

To be fair, public protests and an Olympics boycott would catch the media's attention far better than merely a merchandise boycott. Not to say it has no faults, it's still the more effective way of getting your voice heard and raising awareness.

[Still Growing]

Funny cartoon but the US population buying Chinese products even though they disagree with Chinese gov't policy is no more ironic than other countries eating McDonalds and watching American movies even when they disagree with the US gov't policy.

This is a case of double irony.

[Marco Polo]

Still Growing, you're probably making too much distinction b/w government and economic interests. A giant boycott of all things American would leave your country in ruins - including your government. SO when economic interests are attacked, the government is all ears.

Without corporate taxes (who derive profits from foreign countries) how could whackjob presidents fund their stupid wars? Boycotts would be a fully rational strategy, at least if America wasn't such a globalized corporate hub eager to outsource their jobs all over the world.

The way I see it, when you buy a product you are "voting" for
a) the company itself and
b) the country (incl. govt) that it came from

Not suggesting we launch economic warfare against a country like China but... ah well i just wanted to post the cartoon.

wow, this is really one of the few forums where some guy comes and drops a line, like 2 weeks after the thread dies... lol

[Still Growing]

I'm not sure I understand.

A boycott of Chinese products because we disagree with their gov't's policy is not the same as other countries boycotting the US if they disagree with the US policy?

How is it different? Please explain.

[Marco Polo]

No, they're exactly the same in principle.

I was just making the point that targeting America, for various reasons really but mainly it's global reach, would be a great deal more complicated if not impossible. The damage internationally would be too extensive. If, say, a small European nation boycotts McDonalds, that's thousands upon thousands of jobs lost within the country itself which may result in a broader weakening of the EU.

Targeting domestic Chinese firms might be somewhat more realistic is what I'm saying.

Take the example of an even smaller economy under attack - the Middle Eastern boycott of Danish goods after the cartoon riots... the Danish gov't knew they had a stake in this (probably b/c they appropriate insanely high taxes from these firms), so they themselves stepped in and tried to resolve the issue. That's just one small example.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Targeting domestic Chinese firms might be somewhat more realistic is what I'm saying.

But if you target the Dollar store it would affect jobs, American importers and so on. If you target Walmart it would have an affect on those working at Walmart and also the shareholders.

Also you are missing my point... You are speaking about American potentially boycotting Chinese made products due to China's gov't actions. I'm saying that if the same happened and Europe, for example, boycotted American products due to the US gov't actions that would be the same logic would it not?

[Marco Polo]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

But if you target the Dollar store it would affect jobs, American importers and so on. If you target Walmart it would have an affect on those working at Walmart and also the shareholders.

Yes, and if we could miraculously find a way to collapse those corporations, your government would not be apathetic, believe me. That's 90% of America's supply chains right there...

By the way, fill me in: how would an international boycott of these particular firms be even remotely possible, given that (most of) their demand and private investment stems from America itself?

Originally Posted by Still Growing

Also you are missing my point... You are speaking about American potentially boycotting Chinese made products due to China's gov't actions. I'm saying that if the same happened and Europe, for example, boycotted American products due to the US gov't actions that would be the same logic would it not?

When I wrote "No, they're exactly the same in principle" in my last post I was answering that very question. Sorry if that was unclear.

Edit: Demand-side boycotts might be terribly inefficient (although strictly speaking not irrational). This cartoon is merely pointing out that many of these stupid morons running around snuffing out torches may indirectly be funding the Communist Party, or better yet the Chinese entrepreneurs operating from Lhasa! Come on, that's F_U_N_N_Y.

I mean, we could go on forever saying "well just look at the corresponding irony of x, y and z instead" but as long as you're not refuting the irony itself then you're just reinforcing my point.

[Still Growing]

Marco Polo,
Oh I see......., your point is that Americans are the butt of the joke. The typical American in the cartoon is a hypocrit. That is your point isn't it.

You see, by using the word "ironic" I thought you were an American who was simply saying that Americans SHOULD boycott Chinese products (according to your own words). My point was that its not a good idea for Americans to boycott Chinese products due to political reasons because the same could be done to America.

The reason I said its double irony is because its Ironic that Americans would speak out about Chinese policy while buying Chinese products (which the cartoon points out) however its also ironic that you suggested that Americans should boycott Chinese products and not expect other countries to boycott American products. That would be a case of double irony. That was my only point. There's no need to debate the feasibility of said boycott only the irony of the concept.

I think the position you are coming from is more about American Hypocrisy. If you had stated that Americans yelling to free Tibet and judging the Chinese gov't while buying Chinese products was hypocritical then I would have fully understood your position and had no need to point out that not buying Chinese products is also ironic...

I am not refuting the irony in the cartoon; you couldn't be further off mark.

[Marco Polo]

The butt of the joke is anyone who indirectly funds the regime or Lhasian entrepreneurs while rallying against them. But since there was a U.S. flag in the cartoon our discussion went off on a tangent about America specifically (of course the torch snuffers were actually French, but yeah).

Thanks for your clarification on the rest.

By the way, I'm not American - I think you knew that already, but I might as well clarify. Couldn't discern whether that was sarcasm in your 2nd paragraph...