You are all powerful; Now How Do You Solve The Sweatshops Problem?

[Nicketas]

What can be done about Indonesian sweatshops?

Indonesia is a country that is very rich with resources. The only reason these sweatshops exist is due to corporate dominance.

What will or can you do RIGHT NOW to make a dent in this problem?



(Of course, One obvious solution is to stop buying clothes that were made in indonesia.

This is extremely easy to do and not as inconvenient as one might think, as you can find plenty of nice looking clothes in numerous other brands of equal quality.

Its no more difficult than checking the ingredients labels on the food you eat. However, I would like us to get REALLY creative here on this one....)


Now let's get really creative, Here's another question:

If you had unlimited resources, how would you solve this problem?

[Apollia]

Unlimited resources, eh?

I think I'd just start tons of businesses to compete with the sweatshops, and pay the workers lavishly generous wages. That would probably put the sweatshops out of business, since who would ever work for a sweatshop when they could go somewhere else and be well-treated and well-paid?

[Apollia]

No, wait a moment. Actually, if I were really all-powerful and had unlimited resources, I'd make the world into a utopia where no one would ever have to work.

Maybe that's not creative enough, though - it's a bit vague and undetailed.

Oops, I just realized I overlooked a question.

What will or can you do RIGHT NOW to make a dent in this problem?

I'll continue to almost never buy new, non-used clothes. Furthermore, I'll eventually get around to learning more about this problem, and perhaps sometime I'll put something up on my website encouraging people to not buy clothes made in sweatshops.

Apollia

[Jennihul]

Co-op America: Economic Action for a Just Planet


Jennifer

[Apollia]

Wonderful link, thanks!

Apollia

[Brutha]

Just not buying Indonesian closes will probably help nobody in Indonesia. People will just lose their jobs.

You would punish business in Indonesia that pay a far wage just as much as those who don't. As a result no Indonesian business would have an incentive to choose to pay fair wages.
If I had a lot of resources to throw at the problem I would try to make it transparent in which factories there are good conditions and in which factories there aren't.

If you boycott companies that produce in Indonesia on principle they have no incentive to improve.
If you on the other hand give them clear goals as measured in average wage increase, union right and worksafety conditions and you punish those companies that don't meet them and instead buy from companies that might meet the targets you create incentive to change.

Fashion designer find there brand extremely important. If you could know whether Adidas is more friendly than Nike to their workforce you could force them to compete on that level.
Which Nike manager wouldn't want demonstrations that say buy Nike instead of Adidas to improve conditions of the poor?
That would be effective Nike marketing and worth millions which Nike would pay to get that advantage.

The strategy of opposing every company that produces in Indonesia won't help Indonesia. Because it has no hope of changing how those companies operate and those companies are extremely powerful.
On the other hand, creating a market for more fairly produced clothes might be a winning strategy if you could focus enough resources to get enough information to decide which companies are better than others and you could get the people who demonstrate against free form of product that is produced in Indonesia to follow your strategy.

Senators Push Law Banning Sale of 'Sweatshop' Imports sounds also like a strategy that could work.

[Jennihul]

Just write emails. Tons and tons.

I had a protracted battle with Land's End and LL Bean because they had supposedly the higher end of "conscience" with regard to their manufacturing processes and values. But only ONE item in LL Bean's catalog was made in North America. A knit hat. Made in Canada. Besides the fact that they answered some of the basic questions very badly with regard to working hours, age of workers and basic pay scale.

They charge a pretty penny for their items. When they made the shift from US work force ($4.60 per hour minimum to $11.00 approximate maximum) to a completely foreign workforce ($1.60 per DAY average), did their prices reflect that ENORMOUS savings? Heck no. Profit. Profit. Profit. They didn't answer my queries about that at all.

Coop America will teach you what to ask for in your emails. Pester until you start getting good answers. Remember you aren't only a conscience speaking, you are a customer speaking.

Jennifer

[Barcs]

All powerful eh? If that was the case, I'd snap my fingers and it would be fixed (along with a crapload of other things!) Wouldn't any benevolent all powerful being do this?

[Jennihul]

Sometimes it's not a lack of power but the fact that these circumstances are much more complex than they appear to outsiders. Pampered outsiders, to boot.

What if the equally powerful being in Indonesia that works in that sweatshop actually manifested work for himself and his village? Just because we judge it as unacceptable, maybe it's exactly what he wanted and needed. What if it is a steppingstone for him to move onto the next step in HIS path?

It's easy to sit in the ivory tower and judge other things as bad. What's worse than no job in a country where a few cents per day can make or break your LIFE? Where the remedial medical care provided by your US employer beats the heck out of no medical care?

Jennifer

[Freelancer]

No, wait a moment. Actually, if I were really all-powerful and had unlimited resources, I'd make the world into a utopia where no one would ever have to work.

Oh please for the love of god no that would be so incredibly boring.

[escapee]

Bring back the gold standard and fixed exchange rate so that there would be little incentive for the big elite corporation to exploit the valuable resources and man power of the developing world.

Meanwhile, the government of both the developed and developing nations must continue to pursue a real free market capitalism to ensure high innovation, competition and efficiency to increase the standard of living of the people. A high standard of living = Spending and consumption ( A real gold standard would prevent/minimize unproductive/excessive spending and speculative investment like what we have seen now !) A stable democratic government would be an added bonus to reduce wastage and corruption to the minimal level.

[Apollia]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

Oh please for the love of god no that would be so incredibly boring.

If it were incredibly boring it would not be a utopia...

But, OK, I guess it was a little presumptuous of me to just assume that everyone else would actually want to live in a utopia. Sorry about that.

Barcs wrote:

All powerful eh? If that was the case, I'd snap my fingers and it would be fixed (along with a crapload of other things!) Wouldn't any benevolent all powerful being do this?

It would be very tempting. But... I guess a benevolent all-powerful being who isn't a free-will-denying control freak might want to respect people's wishes to live whatever way they please.

[Still Growing]

I agree with Brutha in his statements here. By simply not buying clothes in Indonesia it would not help them...

I spent a lot of time in Indonesia and know first hand of the situation there. In many cases if the kids were not working on clothes they would be working in fields or elsewhere. In addition to providing money for their families working with clothing is often preferred over other types of jobs.

Lets not forget that there are much larger issues such as child prostitution and starvation in the world. I view tackling these issues as being a higher priority than the sweat shops.

Currently there are a lot of pressure on companies to assure that their vendors are staying in line. There are still a lot of problems but it is improving. A lot of wealthy people in the Western world view these 10 and 12 hour working days as being abusive. I agree but the only thing worse is being at home for those 10 hours with no food. Its a sad situation with no easy answers but it seems that the spotlight on the subject is helping.

[Jennihul]

The worst thing would be if no one cared enough to even evaluate their choices at all.

Transparency in business dealings is never a bad thing. The more people that ask these questions of the companies they purchase from, the less evil they can sneak in.

China is finding this out the hard way. Poor things. Imagine the culture shock of the pseudo-communists being boycotted by the capitalists.

The universe has a sense of humor.

Jennifer

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

China is finding this out the hard way. Poor things. Imagine the culture shock of the pseudo-communists being boycotted by the capitalists.

The universe has a sense of humor.

Jennifer

I agree with you Jen about transparency in business, etc.
As for China its slightly different that what our media portrays. To listen to the news you'd believe that China is an oppressive, child laboring, evil communist country who is killing America.

It is true that the gov't is communist in nature but it is changing. It is also true that child labor exists but China is changing very rapidly. The country is becoming more wealthy and more capitalistic by the day.

I have been in many factories in China and its more common for the factories to have dorms with plenty of food, water and most factories do not have any underage workers. The country is so huge and there is poverty in areas, so the bad is inevitable. Interestingly enough, I've seen equal or worse poverty right here in the US.

China is changing rapidly and capitalism is spreading like cancer. I don't see China being communist in 100 years. It takes time for change to happen.

There was a time in history when China was more civilized than the Western world and we were viewed as smelly barbarians. In our trades we got many port areas addicted to Opium and created an epidemic that enables us to get the upper hand.

I am not disagreeing with you per se, but if you visited China you would find happy families, hardworking and honest people, order in society and opportunities rising by the day. I spoke with one young guy (about 25) who got a job in the city working for a factory and everymonth he sends money home to his family in the countryside. He told me about there not being work in the country and about water being re-routed to the cities and it hurting his small farm village. Listening to his dreams and plans I can tell you that China is full of people just like you and I.

[Lauxa]

Okay, if I had the power and resources, I would make public the tax filings of every corporation. I am not sure exactly what information is in the tax filing, but I'm sure there is a lot that dedicated people could ferret out if it were available. Also, I would place RFIDs in every item (already being done for many items) that would reveal statistics about its manufacture and could be readable by a hand-held device, such as a cell phone. Maybe there would also be additional information available over an internet connection (available on many cell phones).

Now, when a person is actually at the store, they could scan the available items and get information to make slightly better and more humane choices. This would increase the pressure on corporations to be more humane and gradually we would be offered better options altogether.

[The David]

Originally Posted by Nicketas

Now let's get really creative, Here's another question:

If you had unlimited resources, how would you solve this problem?

The 'unlimited resources' part just kind of eliminated any chance for creativity.

How about we just use the Pavlinic Method and promote the entrepreneurial spirit in Indonesia?