Iraq War 5 yr aniv. marks ~85,000 civilian deaths

[andyoyo]

Lots of news regards to the 3000+ US troops that have died in Iraq, while a staggering amount of Iraqi civilians, estimated around 85,000 human deaths have been the outcome of the choice to Invade 5 years ago in 2003. Read more...

Also in the news, Bush argues Iraq War worth it stating "Five years into this battle, there is an understandable debate over whether the war was worth fighting ... whether the fight is worth winning ... and whether we can win it. The answers are clear to me: Removing Saddam Hussein from power was the right decision and this is a fight America can and must win."

Forum required biased personal opinion: Ron Paul 2008

[Amadeus]

Thousands of civilians died during the Korean War. Ask South Korea if they would prefer to go back to the way it was before we went over there.

Millions of civilians died during WW2. Ask Poland, Germany, Russia, France, etc. if they would prefer it the way it was before the US stepped in.

Ask Kuwaiti civilians if they are glad the US came over after Saddam attacked them in the early 90s.

How many of those civilians that died are you talking about in Iraq were planted there to shield the terrorist at schools, places of worship, hospitals, etc.

[andyoyo]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

Thousands of civilians died during the Korean War. Ask South Korea if they would prefer to go back to the way it was before we went over there.

Millions of civilians died during WW2. Ask Poland, Germany, Russia, France, etc. if they would prefer it the way it was before the US stepped in.

Ask Kuwaiti civilians if they are glad the US came over after Saddam attacked them in the early 90s.

How many of those civilians that died are you talking about in Iraq were planted there to shield the terrorist at schools, places of worship, hospitals, etc.

I know very little of the Korean war, but I do know it is unfair to compare WWII with the Iraq war. The German Nazis had a genocide of the Jewish race, and killed millions of innocent lives. Even then, I would not think the Japanese (Hiroshima & Nagasaki) would agree with you

I also know very little about Kuwait in the 90's and the 'real' situation in Iraq, if you've been there I'd leave to hear your insight.

I don't see how it's logical to generalize an entire nations thoughts into one, sadly I cannot ask the countries of the past.

[Amadeus]

It has been fully documented that Saddam murdered thousands of his own people and Iranian civilians with WMDs. So I can compare what was going on in Iraq to Germany. An Iraqi life is worth just as much as a Jewish life.

I've never been to Kuwait, but had about a dozen Kuwaiti classmates from college in the mid-90s and they told me that before we went over there after Saddam went into Iraq they tortured, raped, and murdered their civilians.

But isn't it funny that you can barely find a spec of news about the Iraq war now. When American soldiers were dying it was plastered all over the news. Since the surge you can't buy a paper that has news about it. I guess the media bias has been made apparent.

[Brutha]

The real difference to WWII is that the US didn't start WWII but Germany did. On the other hand the Iraq war was started by the US.

I also think that it was right to defend Kuwait in the 90's when Iraq started that war.

At the moment the reduction of violence in Iraq is brought by paying and given weapon to some groups. The problem is that those groups don't support the Iraqi government.

To get a real democracy you need acceptance of the government.

[Barcs]

It has been fully documented that Saddam murdered thousands of his own people and Iranian civilians with WMDs.

Are you talking about the gassing of the Kurds? There is no concrete proof that Saddam even did that. Everyone just assumes he did, while many believe it was Iran. They tried to convict him with that at the trial but could not due to lack of evidence. They tried to get him with a lot but failed, except for that one incident that he was executed for. I'm not saying he was a good guy or anything, but he had an interest in preserving his country and crushing rebel groups. Can you really blame him for that? I'm sure the same thing would happen here minus the gassing and torturing (or maybe not), if we had rebel groups trying to fight against the government. There's no question that the Iraq region was better back then than it is right now. The future may be different, but my motto is "Fighting for peace is like having sex for abstinence". It's counter productive. Saddam was anti-terrorism, anti Al Queda and anti-Taliban. He could have been an ally. Him being in power, balanced out the region. Now it is all lopsided and Iran has all the power. The war was a mistake, and every reason given to invade was false or fabricated. That alone speaks volumes.

85,000 is a lot of innocent people for a war like that. You know something is going wrong when the majority of casualties are innocent civilians.

[escapee]

YouTube - The Iraq War: Legal or Illegal?

The Iraq war is obviously illegal as per International law. But that will not matter to most people in the state. What will matter the most is whether the governor of the NY state commits sinful behaviors like calling prostitutes .....

Prostitution is more sinful than Illegal war In ....

[Dan.Linehan]

What do we have to show for the war after five years?

Between 600,000 and 1.2 million Iraqi civilians dead.
20% of Iraqi population displaced.
Two million Iraqi refugees living in neighboring countries.
Iraqis seeking asylum at an all-time high.
70% of Iraqi women don't have enough food to feed their family.
66% of Iraqi women report that violence against women has increased in the last five years.
75% of Iraqi women report that girls in their family are not allowed to attend school.
25% of Iraqi women are optimistic about the future.
Almost 4,000 US troops killed in combat.
More than 29,000 troops wounded.
At least 145 Iraq veteran deaths by suicide and thousands of attempts.
Over 500 amputees (this does not count fingers and toes).
Over 7,500 Iraq veterans diagnosed with Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI).
Approximately 28% of combat troops who have returned with PTSD.
300,000 Iraq veterans who are expected to develop some sort of mental health problem requiring treatment.

[escapee]

And the blow Job was a more impeachable offense than the list posted by Dan...

We are living in a strange world.

Impeach Blair campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Ibanez]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

Thousands of civilians died during the Korean War. Ask South Korea if they would prefer to go back to the way it was before we went over there.

Millions of civilians died during WW2. Ask Poland, Germany, Russia, France, etc. if they would prefer it the way it was before the US stepped in.

Ask Kuwaiti civilians if they are glad the US came over after Saddam attacked them in the early 90s.

How many of those civilians that died are you talking about in Iraq were planted there to shield the terrorist at schools, places of worship, hospitals, etc.

Your analogies are terrible. Preemptive war is a whole different issue.

[Amadeus]

They are perfect anologies because we didn't have to go over to Korea during the Korean War or Europe during WW2, but we did and the World is a better place. Our national security wasn't threatened over there in Asia, but we went over there anyway. Maybe one reason they call the Korean War the Forgotten War is because it was a great democracy spreading success for the US that the media shys away from anything that makes this country look good.

[escapee]

A better examples that resemble the oil war in Iraq would be the Vietnam war or Afghanistan for the old soviet Union in which resources and precious life wasted for achieving nothing. ( unless you regard Dan's list as an achievement )

WWII may also come close if you view it in a slightly different angle, where Hitler and the Japanese imperial army launched their ill fated "pre-emptive strike" on Europe and Pearl harbour respectively. With that, the entire world turned against them !

Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ( "A great intention" that was rejected by Asia in WWII, Are we seeing something similar in the Persian gulf ? )

During World War II, many countries occupied by Japan were run by puppet governments, which manipulated local populations and economies for the benefit of Imperial Japan, backed by this conception of a united Asia absent of, or opposed to, European influence. It was an Imperial Japanese Army concept which originated with General Hachiro Arita, who at the time was Minister for Foreign Affairs and an army ideologist. "Greater East Asia" (大東亜, Dai-tō-a?) was a Japanese term (banned during the post-war Occupation) referring to Northeast Asia, Southeast Asia and surrounding areas.

[Ibanez]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

They are perfect anologies because we didn't have to go over to Korea during the Korean War or Europe during WW2, but we did and the World is a better place. Our national security wasn't threatened over there in Asia, but we went over there anyway. Maybe one reason they call the Korean War the Forgotten War is because it was a great democracy spreading success for the US that the media shys away from anything that makes this country look good.

The North began the war so it still doesn't add up.

[The David]

Nothing like half a decade to make you stop and think, "Oh. . .wait. We were supposed to finish this years ago."

I remember taking a current events course back in Fall 2005. In August, the toll of American deaths was something like 1800, which was a question on the test. During the final, the correct answer was 2100+.

You can hardly even measure the civilian deaths. Very sad.