Obama vs. McCain -- how would you vote?

[Tasaio]

Assuming Obama gets the Democrat nomination (likely) and McCain gets the Republican nomination (almost certain), how will you vote?

[Tasaio]

Vote Obama.

He's not perfect, but he'll do. Better than McCain on all the issues.

[schola]

I wouldn't count out Hillary just yet. She's still very much in this race.

Between Obama, Clinton, and McCain, I'd vote for Obama.

[A2K89]

Third party (depends) or not at all.

I don't care to choose the lesser of two evils. Either way people will be jumping to rip off their Obama or Mccain bumper sticker 2-4 years after the election.

Oh and I think its pretty obvious no Republican will be President, by nominating Mccain the Republicans seem to be just giving the democrats the election. It will be amusing after the Democrat is nominated though, and all the dems start acting all proud for being able to dominate whacko Mccain in a debate.

[coollikeme]

Obama I don't know what his policies are? Does he even have any?

[schola]

Originally Posted by coollikeme

Obama I don't know what his policies are? Does he even have any?

CHANGE
© All Rights Reserved Obama 2008

[frankfortpost]

Obama or McCain?

Socialism and Socialism?

I'll pass.

[Barcs]

I'm voting 3rd party this go around, but if I had to choose, I'd pick Obama by a mile over both Hillary and McCain. We definitely need change right now. I'm pretty sure it's almost guaranteed that a democrat will take this election after the past 8 years we've had, and quite frankly I don't think McCain has a chance.

[Lola]

Obama, Obama, Obama.

[Gabo]

While I greatly dislike Hilary, Obama's style of campaign frightens me.

Rather than gaining support by his policies and past decisions, he whips his followers into a fervor with ambiguous positive ideals, almost reminiscient of a revivalist preacher.

Obama's supporters remind me of cultists more than political activists. They shout and scream in favor of vague ideas that don't even resemble the Senator's actual voting record.


Personally, I couldn't care less whether Obama or McCain wins.
They both support the national ID card, the Patriot Act, the Homegrown Terrorism Act, pre-emptive nuclear strikes, and other horribly intrusive policies.

As of now I will be casting my vote for Ron Paul, because he is the only candidate that stands up for freedom and peace. Faced with an intentional blackout by the media, I feel that asserting my freedom by voting for Paul is the best thing to do.

[Amadeus]

Yea I would vote for Barrack Hussein Obama because he has so much experience..........and he has such a long successful track record in Congress....I guess. He makes women in the front row faint and then there is that youtube video "yes we can". That is good enough for me. He talks so well and his words about words are breathtaking (laughing my ass off).

[oberlee]

Obama. I don't LIKE McCain's policies, but the only good thing about having an evil jackass in office is that anyone else--even McCain--will be an improvement. I mean, he's intelligent at least.

Anyway, Obama has a lot of policies. You just need to read and listen and watch more things than "Yes we can" videos. His marketing tactic is "change" but he has specific policies like any other candidate. He has a great one--don't know how plausible--about offering scholarship college $$ to youth in exchange for community service.

However, we can't count Hillary out. She's good in all the way Obama's not, and vice versa. I like them both, but being a young, liberal-ish woman living in Oakland, Obama speaks right to my heart.

And, um...he has a GREAT track record. Look him up. He's made a huge difference since he's been in the Senate.

[Amadeus]

Huge difference? Like.......what????

[Gabo]

Originally Posted by oberlee

His marketing tactic is "change" but he has specific policies like any other candidate.

That is precisely the problem.
His policies are just like any other candidate.
And the other candidates have horrible policies like endless war and violations of our liberties, things he seems to go right along with.

He has a great one--don't know how plausible--about offering scholarship college $$ to youth in exchange for community service.

I hate what the modern "community service" movement has done to volunteering. It used to be that people volunteered because they wanted to help others, especially those at a disadvantage.

Nowadays people seem to think that we have to give rewards, perks, and benefits in order to seduce people into volunteering. It undermines the whole point of volunteering in the first place, which used to be giving help to others and asking nothing in return.

I am a college student myself, and I pay for it by working as I go to school.
Anyone with a determined mindset that is willing to put in the time can pay for their school by working, and doing so does not put further strain on the massive federal budget.

And, um...he has a GREAT track record. Look him up. He's made a huge difference since he's been in the Senate.

Here is the track record I care about:

Voted YES on the Patriot Act
Voted YES on renewing the Patriot Act
Voted YES on Real ID

That about does it for me. He is clearly a pro-establishment, anti-freedom candidate, just like any other. Anyone that votes for such tyrannical bills does not deserve my vote.

[Nelson]

personally i wanted Ron Paul to win the republican nomination but it doesn't seem like the representtatives are following the voice of the people. Looks like they wern't counting on my vote to get them re-elected

Anyways, between those choices I'll definitely vote McCain. While I defintely prefer Obama's Iraq version McCain is offering tax cuts out the yin-yang. (Unfortunately, we Americans are gonna need some tax cuts if either of these guys gets elected).

P.S. I'm only saying I'll vote McCain for this exercise - I'm still voting Ron Paul no matter what the damn ballot says.

[Sam988]

First, I'm not from the US... But I would go for McCain, since his liberal views about technology (like stem cell research) resonate better with me. The more funding for technology, the better.

[Tasaio]

Originally Posted by Sam988

First, I'm not from the US... But I would go for McCain, since his liberal views about technology (like stem cell research) resonate better with me. The more funding for technology, the better.

...

WHAT?

What are you talking about? Surely you have the candidates mixed up?

McCain opposes embryonic stem cell research that uses cloned human embryos, but supports research using human embryos left over from fertility treatments. In 2006, McCain supported a trio of Senate bills designed to increase federal funding for adult stem cell research, ban the creation of embryos for research and offer federal support for research using embryos slated for destruction by fertility clinics.

Obama supports relaxing federal restrictions on embryonic stem cell research. He voted for the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005, which was vetoed by President Bush. The bill would have allowed federal funding to be used for research on stem cell lines obtained from discarded human embryos originally created for fertility treatments.

I'm guessing that you've been misinformed.

[Barcs]

Here is the track record I care about:

Voted YES on the Patriot Act
Voted YES on renewing the Patriot Act
Voted YES on Real ID

I'm pretty sure if you check all 3 candidates in the running you will see the same exact thing. That's a shame and partially why I'm going 3rd party (probably Nader) this year.

[Gabo]

Originally Posted by Barcs

I'm pretty sure if you check all 3 candidates in the running you will see the same exact thing. That's a shame and partially why I'm going 3rd party (probably Nader) this year.

There are still 5 candidates running:

Clinton
Obama
McCain
Huckabee
Paul


Of the 5, four of them do vote the exact same way.
Paul is the exception, which is why he gets my vote.

[coollikeme]

Gabo: Ron Paul never counted. What a waste of time he was..

[WanderingOak]

All I have to say is 'is this the best we can come up with?'. If I had the choice, it would be 'none of the above'. McCain wants to keep us in Iraq bloody well neigh on forever, so he's right out. Hillary Clinton is the one who got us involved in Bosnia, picking sides in a regional civil war, and more than likely, she'll do it again in Kosovo, or worse, Iran. As for Obama, charisma will probably win him the election, because that is one thing that neither Hillary or McCain has. However, charisma, hope, change, or chanting 'yes we can' won't mean squat once he is in the White House. I don't think he has the experience required to do what is necessary to right the economy and get our foreign policy screwed on straight.

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by Gabo

That is precisely the problem.
His policies are just like any other candidate.
And the other candidates have horrible policies like endless war and violations of our liberties, things he seems to go right along with.


I hate what the modern "community service" movement has done to volunteering. It used to be that people volunteered because they wanted to help others, especially those at a disadvantage.

Nowadays people seem to think that we have to give rewards, perks, and benefits in order to seduce people into volunteering. It undermines the whole point of volunteering in the first place, which used to be giving help to others and asking nothing in return.

I am a college student myself, and I pay for it by working as I go to school.
Anyone with a determined mindset that is willing to put in the time can pay for their school by working, and doing so does not put further strain on the massive federal budget.



Here is the track record I care about:

Voted YES on the Patriot Act
Voted YES on renewing the Patriot Act
Voted YES on Real ID

That about does it for me. He is clearly a pro-establishment, anti-freedom candidate, just like any other. Anyone that votes for such tyrannical bills does not deserve my vote.

You are honestly awesome. Way to keep focus on the things that matter. Clearly no chance of Ron Paul sadly & he was the only one I'd've liked to see in office. I'm seriously considering relocating because the US clearly isn't the place I'd like to raise a child.

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by Gabo

That is precisely the problem.
His policies are just like any other candidate.
And the other candidates have horrible policies like endless war and violations of our liberties, things he seems to go right along with.


I hate what the modern "community service" movement has done to volunteering. It used to be that people volunteered because they wanted to help others, especially those at a disadvantage.

Nowadays people seem to think that we have to give rewards, perks, and benefits in order to seduce people into volunteering. It undermines the whole point of volunteering in the first place, which used to be giving help to others and asking nothing in return.

I am a college student myself, and I pay for it by working as I go to school.
Anyone with a determined mindset that is willing to put in the time can pay for their school by working, and doing so does not put further strain on the massive federal budget.



Here is the track record I care about:

Voted YES on the Patriot Act
Voted YES on renewing the Patriot Act
Voted YES on Real ID

That about does it for me. He is clearly a pro-establishment, anti-freedom candidate, just like any other. Anyone that votes for such tyrannical bills does not deserve my vote.

I couldn't agree more.

[Barcs]

Originally Posted by Gabo

There are still 5 candidates running:

Clinton
Obama
McCain
Huckabee
Paul


Of the 5, four of them do vote the exact same way.
Paul is the exception, which is why he gets my vote.

Yes I agree. I voted for Paul as well, but I was talking about the candidates that have more than a snowball's chance in hell of winning. To me, it's about freedom. Not gender, race or anything like that. I really wish Paul would run Indy. He'd definitely get the 5% needed to have a fully funded campaign next time.

[Tasaio]

Originally Posted by Gabo

There are still 5 candidates running:

Clinton
Obama
McCain
Huckabee
Paul

Untrue. There are a total of 7 candidates still running.

From United States presidential election, 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Democrats
Hillary Clinton
Mike Gravel
Barack Obama

Republicans
Mike Huckabee
Alan Keyes
John McCain
Ron Paul

Of the 5, four of them do vote the exact same way.
Paul is the exception, which is why he gets my vote.

You are honestly awesome. Way to keep focus on the things that matter.

I don't think this comment is "honestly awesome" and I don't think it focuses on the things that matter. The non-Paul candidates don't all vote the same way.

- Obama voted against telecom immunity (illegal wiretapping). McCain voted for it. Hillary abstained.

- McCain voted against a bill banning "harsh interrogation techniques", waterboarding among them. Hillary and Obama abstained.

- Back in 2003: Hillary and McCain voted for the Iraq war, Obama voted against it.

- McCain opposes abortion rights except when the mother's life is in danger; Hillary and Obama both support full abortion rights.

Please don't use sweeping generalizations to attack other candidates. Don't say Hillary, Obama, and McCain always vote the same way, or at least regarding "things that matter". Which things matter, is subject to personal opinion.

Don't turn this into another thread about "Why Ron Paul is so great".

I hate what the modern "community service" movement has done to volunteering. It used to be that people volunteered because they wanted to help others, especially those at a disadvantage.

Many people are still willing to do this. You'll often find people with this mindset to the political left--those who champion universal health care, fairer education systems, and reasonable taxes.

I'm not sure what you mean by the modern community service movement...if you're in college now, you can't be that old. Perhaps you're comparing your own generation to your parents'? Be careful--people often see there childhood through rose-tinted spectacles.

Nowadays people seem to think that we have to give rewards, perks, and benefits in order to seduce people into volunteering. It undermines the whole point of volunteering in the first place, which used to be giving help to others and asking nothing in return.

You're forgetting, that young people today have more responsability.

They have to pay (in some cases exhorbant) fees for university.

They have to know numerous computer skills.

They have to worry about issues like terrorism, a huge national debt, a coming recession, and the rise of the religious right.

People often quote "With great power comes great responsability", but a better phrase would perhaps be:

"With great responsability comes a need for great power and control."

I'm talking about power and control in each person's own life--if you have to work harder to secure a living, then you need to be able to put in the time to develop the skills.

This means that people have less time to volunteer for (what they will see as) pointless, trivial activities. Why work at a carwash, when you could spend that time preparing for your biology exam?

That said...I think most young people are still willing to help. I see kids today holding open doors for adults, escorting old people down stairways, and giving money to poor people.

I am a college student myself, and I pay for it by working as I go to school.
Anyone with a determined mindset that is willing to put in the time can pay for their school by working, and doing so does not put further strain on the massive federal budget.

This isn't true for everyone.

Back when I attended university (several years ago), the Ontario government deregulated the fees for computer science. This meant that institutions were free to raise fees as high as they liked.

A response to the Dot-com crash, this gave the CS departments the funds they needed. Unfortunately, it meant students entering those fields were saddled with fees twice as high as the average student--over $10 000 dollars per school year.

Student loans were a must, in this case. I myself worked every summer in university (at a very well paying job), and still couldn't make enough to cover my tuition.

Also, I benefitted from having a friend working at that company. I probably wouldn't have gotten such a well-paying job, otherwise.

As for working during the school year...

That would have been impossible. I couldn't find enough time to do everything without a job--let alone with one. Imagine the workloads people in pre-Med School degrees had to put up with!

Others on this forum have said that, if they could do it all again, they would choose to not work during school. It's not worth the time it takes away from your studies, in my opinion.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Tasaio

- Back in 2003: Hillary and McCain voted for the Iraq war, Obama voted against it.

How? He wasn't in Congress in 2003.

[Tasaio]

Originally Posted by schola

How? He wasn't in Congress in 2003.

My bad--Obama didn't actually vote against the war.

What he did do, was speak out against the war at the same time Hillary and McCain voted for it. I think everyone knows that Obama was against the war from the start. Hillary and McCain can't say the same.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Tasaio

My bad--Obama didn't actually vote against the war.

What he did do, was speak out against the war at the same time Hillary and McCain voted for it. I think everyone knows that Obama was against the war from the start. Hillary and McCain can't say the same.

Fair enough. But let's be honest. Obama was a nobody in 2003. It's easy to speak out against something when you're a state legislator, not a congressman, and you don't have to actually vote on the issue.

Has he pledged to remove all troops from Iraq by a certain date? No, he won't commit to anything. As far as I know, none of the candidates, minus Paul, have made the pledge to immediately pull troops out of Iraq, or set a time table.

Obama's position on the war is better than "100 Years McCain," but not by much.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Tasaio

A response to the Dot-com crash, this gave the CS departments the funds they needed. Unfortunately, it meant students entering those fields were saddled with fees twice as high as the average student--over $10 000 dollars per school year.

Doesn't that mean the market worked?

You're saying it's unfortunate that these students couldn't afford to go into a field that when they probably wouldn't be able get a job after they graduated anyway.

The same thing is going on right now in computer animation, and that is why I switched my major to psychology. The schools are way overpriced because there are an unbalanced number of students pursuing a major in computer animation. But that's how it should be. The higher prices keep more people out, which keeps all but the most serious and dedicated students out. This keeps the field from becoming even more oversaturated with mediocre workers.

[Peter Tosh]

obama was against the war for iraq, he didn't vote for it, becuas he couldn't. but he was verbally against the war he made speeches and other things of that matter.

now mccain and hilary, they were for the war....