The Best Way To Reduce Poverty in the World

[outdoorsnewzealand]

What are your thoughts on how to reduce poverty in the world?

I live in New Zealand and recently I've been thinking about the differences in opportunities between various countries and I realise how lucky I am have been born in a country where it's so easy to survive when so many have to struggle just to find food to eat.

I think the best way help many of the people in poverty is through education. So together with the room to read charity I've started raising money to build a school in Nepal.

The cost to build the school is $15,000 USD. I will be cutting my spending way back to try and make this goal a reality, hopefully some of you will join me.

You can make donations at the website Room To Read - Kiwi School

[outdoorsnewzealand]

Now I am interested to know why no-one has responded to this thread ... some possibilities:

1. You don't think poverty is a problem.
2. You don't think it is worthwhile to attempt solving the problem of poverty in the the world.
3. You see my post as an attempt to get contributions for my charity of choice and resent me more doing that.

I'm sure there are a whole host of other possible reasons you might have but I am genuinely interested in hearing the thoughts of the people in this community in regards to dealing with poverty.

[Akashic_Librarian]

Whilst what you are doing seems morally right. If you'll see my latest controversial post, then you'll see I don't agree with throwing money at a problem. You see I believe poverty is self-inflicted. Relatively most people on the planet are in poverty, so its a personal thing, but I believe that its more about teaching people values and skills that drive them out of charity, not simply building things and giving them food.

BUT a school is a good idea, as long as they are taught the right things.

AS is said in The War of The Worlds "not poetry and rubbish, but SCIENCE"

[Brutha]

At the moment I think that non-for-profit businesses like KickStart: The Tools to End Poverty or the Acuman fund, are the most effective.

Investing in education would be the second best in my opinion.

[Dan.Linehan]

It has to start with fresh drinking water and locally grown food.

Over a billion people don't have clean water. With the ecological crisis in China that number is quickly increasing.

[AttractIt]

Hey kiwi,

I encourage your actions, You are very brave,

Probably as yourself, I meet all kinds of people, and I know that poverty
is a state of mind,
It doesn't matter if you were born like that, or had "bad luck" during the years.

I really do encourage you because maybe you are the angle of some people in Nepal who are seeking their way to build a school, which will enable (not teach) to be rich (even only in their mind first).

It's really pretty complicated issue,

[hollenes]

I believe the best way to end poverty is to first teach the impovershed. Giving money to people in poverty is great and all, but that will soon run out, and they will be left with nothing. But if you teach them proper methods of water filteration, teach them to farm or raise their own animals, and then educate them in the various sciences then I'd say you'd have a pretty good start. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I know pure donations will in the long ru do nothing.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Whilst what you are doing seems morally right. If you'll see my latest controversial post, then you'll see I don't agree with throwing money at a problem.

Money is just a tool. It can be a great tool to help solve poverty if used right. But it depends on where the money is going. Most "aid" to Africa never reaches the people who need it anyway. It ends up in the hands of the corrupt bureaucrats who run those countries.

Organizations like Kiva.org - Loans that change lives makes sure the money ends up in the hands of people who will make good use of it. In Kiva's case it's entrepreneurs and business owners.

[jaamkie]

Hey, I read this before and didn't reply because I didn't think I had much to add- still don't, other than that I agree that extreme poverty is a big problem in the world and that I too am trying to figure out how best to spend my energy to help reduce it. I am curious though how you decided that giving money to this particular school-building efffort is the best thing you can do...? I read so much about agricultural subsidies and trade and technology and politics that makes me think there are bigger issues to be resolved in terms of global fairness and democracy and equality than will be solved by throwing money at it... but at the same time many rich governments really aren't putting very much money toward it at all and the money they do give/loan often comes with stipulations that limit its effectiveness... being an American and listening to the furor over illegal immigrents, I've realized that a lot of Americans truly don't see non-Americans as equals, equally deserving of opportunity for freedom, justice, education, employment, health care, etc- I think that is the biggest issue we need to face- we all need to equally value all human life regardless of their citizenship or wealth.

[Neutral]

I commend your efforts and I think in the short term what your doing is basically right but I think the best long term solution is technology...to many of our problems.

While I don't believe technical innovation is the whole solution to everything, I believe it's essential to positive changes in the world.

One-laptop-per-child is a modern example but its implementation is unfortunately often hindered by an economic/political infrastructure bottleneck.

In risk of sounding crazy, there are emerging technologies which will have the ability to abolish material poverty...if we don't blow up first!

[koke616]

Originally Posted by Neutral

I commend your efforts and I think in the short term what your doing is basically right but I think the best long term solution is technology...to many of our problems.

While I don't believe technical innovation is the whole solution to everything, I believe it's essential to positive changes in the world.

One-laptop-per-child is a modern example but its implementation is unfortunately often hindered by an economic/political infrastructure bottleneck.

In risk of sounding crazy, there are emerging technologies which will have the ability to abolish material poverty...if we don't blow up first!

I agree that those emerging technologies could be hugely beneficial to the human race, but it's like in your example: our problems as a species (poverty, pollution, overpopulation, war, etc...) stem from the inherent flaws of our current social structures. The focus should be on developing and implementing new flexible and sustainable educational, economic, and political systems. Do that and the development and implementation of various technologies would be increased by many orders of magnitude.

[odiaseo]

I must commend you effort to raise funds for charity to eradicate poverty, it is a good jesture and I believe it would have some impact somehow

However, eradicating poverty isn't an easy problem. I am african and grew up in africa and I understand what poverty is and how people are suffering at home. I am priviledge to have good education and qualifications, thus I am able to understand that the developed countries are contributing heavily to the poverty in developing countries. If any substantial improvement is to occur, the leaders of the developed nation must commit to eradication poverty otherwise charities would be financing poverty.

I agree that the poor need to be educated and taught how to think their way out of poverty, but would a hungry man listen?

[outdoorsnewzealand]

Originally Posted by jaamkie

I am curious though how you decided that giving money to this particular school-building efffort is the best thing you can do...?

I wouldn't say I've really decided that it's the best thing to do but rather that it is a worthwhile thing. I've never previously given much to charities because I wasn't sure of the best approach. I believe education is at least an important part of the solution so I decided to get started.

[amberman]

Im surprised that no one has advocated that rich westerners become vegetarian as a potential solution. It takes many times more calories in farm feeds to produce a caloire of meat protein...which is a key reason that poverty exists.

Poor countries grains are used for farm feeds for western countries and to generate revenue to pay world bank debt interest. Overgrazing and logging for pasture land leads to soil erosion and to desertification in may third world areas...making the problem worse and actually accelerating the process.

If no one ate meat tomorrow, poverty and hunger would be eradicated quickly...by feeding the people instead of the animals.

Amberman

[Brutha]

The simple answer is called....................birth control.

To you moraly agree with chinese style birth control? If you don't, how do you want to organize it?

While a basic human function, self preservation is, the world government at large would rather see babies born into death, than control the birth rate.

There is no world goverment.

If no one ate meat tomorrow, poverty and hunger would be eradicated quickly...by feeding the people instead of the animals.

The problem isn't one that relies only on quantity.
Simply having more food is not enough when that food doesn't get good enough distrupted.
There are structural problem that don't depend on the amount of available food.

[yossarian]

Schools rarely educate. Most serve as obedience training for the ruling elite in whatever the region happens to be.

One Laptop per Child (OLPC), a low-cost, connected laptop for the world's children's education

Kids can educate themselves if they have access to information. The XO laptop project cuts right through the adults, schools, governments, and various people that are trying to gain control for their own agendas, and gives the kids of the 3rd world direct access to world information.

This access will let them connect with each other, and also identify the major issues their community faces.

A westerner can't hope to be able to effectively identify the specific changes that need to be made in the millions of local communities across the world in order to counteract poverty. But what we can do is give the local children tools early in life so that they can work from a position of strength through knowledge, skills and communication rather than being in a position of total ignorance and disconnect.

[Dan.Linehan]

Funny you post that yossarian, I just got an update email from OLPC not twenty minutes ago.

Dear Donor,

We wrote you several days ago to let you know that your donation is in our shipping queue for the shipment of your XO laptop.

We are awaiting the arrival of new inventory so that we may ship your laptop to you. We will send you another update in the next few days when we have specific shipping information.

We appreciate your generosity and patience.

Sincerely,

OLPC Donor Services

I can't wait until it gets here...

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Funny you post that yossarian, I just got an update email from OLPC not twenty minutes ago.

Dear Donor,

We wrote you several days ago to let you know that your donation is in our shipping queue for the shipment of your XO laptop.

We are awaiting the arrival of new inventory so that we may ship your laptop to you. We will send you another update in the next few days when we have specific shipping information.

We appreciate your generosity and patience.

Sincerely,

OLPC Donor Services

I can't wait until it gets here...

I got mine about 2 weeks ago

They are way cool, although there is still a lot of work to do. I was a bit disappointed that they aren't sending hand-cranks to North America though, but apparently you can buy a 3rd party design that will do it.

Most of the features are still unimplemented, but that's just because they've planned so many great features.

[splash]

Hi, what an interesting thread. Good luck outdoorsnewzealand, i reckon you're on the right track to reducing poverty by taking action.
Also (though unrelated to education), just thought i'd mention the 'Life straw' invention which is basically a fitering tube you drink out of that kills many water-borne viruses. It's an invention that helps to reduce poverty in the world by providing cleaner water.

LifeStraw® : Home

[Love]

Wow. I think that it interesting that so many solutions have been offered. I would have instantly said education, but I am biased, being an educator. I think that the first step may be more basic than that, along the lines of what Hollenes said. And I agree that the human population is out of control. I wouldn't mind adopting or limiting the number of children I have.

[Nelson]

"The best way to stop poverty is to avoid joining their ranks."

I believe the best way to end poverty is free market capitalism. Not more education - not more food. Capitalism. Pure and simple.

The competetive nature of capitalist individuals throughout the past 300 or so years has caused more people to be "wealthy" than ever before in the history of mankind.

A free market has been the cause of the industrial and technological revolutions. Now more people than ever have health care, educated doctors, cars computers and abundant food supplies.

Competition brings about abundance and innovation. If we allow for a more free market in America (and hopefully one day across the globe) then we will see more and more abundance per person throughout the world as we see resources being used more effectively.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Nelson

I believe the best way to end poverty is free market capitalism. Not more education - not more food. Capitalism. Pure and simple.

What is your position re: collective stupidity issues in capitalism? (There's probably a technical term but I don't know it).

eg. Sometimes arable land in nations with a starving populace is used to grow a "cash crop" like coffee because individuals make more selling it internationally than using the land to feed their fellow citizens.

Environmental issues are another example where the consequences of action are individually beneficial, but collectively detrimental.

[Tobias Zimpel]

Originally Posted by outdoorsnewzealand

What are your thoughts on how to reduce poverty in the world?

I always seek responsibility in my own life, so I would answer this question as follows: The best way to reduce poverty in the world is to become wealthy yourself. Not only will there be one poor person less in the world (at least if you counted yourself poor beforehand), but being wealthy enables you to do all good things in the world and/or support others who do. And that's where the others kick in with their ideas - as well as you do with your vision of education.

I appreciate your efforts, as education is a key to reduce poverty!

[Holoscientist]

To make a true difference it is necessary to change the mindset of the local people. First it is necessary to determine whether they have any desire or inclination to live differently. If they don't then they are not ready to change, and we needn't feel pity for them or force change upon them.

If they express interest then education at the fundamental level of outlook on life is necessary. This is what is provided by various religions to a greater or lesser success, and so religious reform and evolution is necessary in those cases where the local religion is not conducive to abundance. Merely providing an education and a laptop will not work: when these interventions do, it is because they bring along an alternative set of mental attitudes and beliefs, but the latter should be the explicit focus of education.

[Cat Dancer]

Originally Posted by outdoorsnewzealand

What are your thoughts on how to reduce poverty in the world?
[...] I think the best way help many of the people in poverty is through education.

I think you are doing the right thing. You will learn a lot by seeing a need and moving to fill it.

One way to ask your question is "what is the most effective way to reduce poverty?" However, that way of asking the question ignores half of the equation, which is you. Your skills, your interest, the contribution you can make.

Another way of asking the question what is the most effective way that you can reduce poverty. And for you, with your interest in education, raising money for a school contributes more than just the dollars, you will also be involved (to a lessor or greater degree) in help, advice, making connections, bringing other people in, supporting the school beyond dollars.

Thus your contribution of dollars plus knowledge, interest, and experience is more valuable than just dollars themselves.

Now, for other people, with different strengths, the most effective way for them to reduce poverty might be to create drinkable water, or to introduce free market reforms in countries plagued by corruption, or to act to protect the environment, or to change policies of powerful nations which impoverish weaker ones, or to end wars and conflicts, or to create more wealth which can then be used to attack poverty, or to create new technologies which solve problems that poor people have... and so on

[BrownJob]

Originally Posted by Keith

What is your position re: collective stupidity issues in capitalism? (There's probably a technical term but I don't know it).

eg. Sometimes arable land in nations with a starving populace is used to grow a "cash crop" like coffee because individuals make more selling it internationally than using the land to feed their fellow citizens.

Environmental issues are another example where the consequences of action are individually beneficial, but collectively detrimental.

I think the term is 'collective action problem' - a problem which occurs when markets fail to provide public goods. In the case of the cash crop I'm not sure there is a collective action problem. Mainstream economic theorists would argue that individuals ought to specialise in producing what they are most efficient at producing. If that is coffee, then coffee is what should be produced. Profit generated from this can then be used to import food which is grown more efficiently abroad.

Free market capitalism is fine in theory as a means of reducing poverty. The problem is that in the real world it doesn't work very well. The European Union (to cite an example) gives massive subsidies to its farmers which price out developing world farmers. Trade barriers need to be lowered to allow developing world economies to compete more with developed economies.

Obviously however completely unfettered markets are not desirable. To build on the point raised by Keith, some action needs to be taken by governments to resolve collective action problems. The most compelling of these is current environmental problem. The point with this is that the self-interest of companies is not in itself enough to prevent environmental catastrophe; it is not in a company's interest to take action for fear of being less competitive.

I think an interesting question to be discussed is to what extent do we have obligations to redistribute current wealth to those in need? Do we, as Peter Singer claims (search for it on google: P Singer solution to world poverty), have to redistribute wealth to a massive extent? Or is the best course of action to use aid payments as a means of providing a very basic level of assistance to the distant needy - perhaps just enough to make sure everyone at least doesn't starve etc?

[BrownJob]

Building on my last post I'd just like to describe Peter Singer's argument for transnational redistribution of wealth. I think he's wrong but I'd just like to see what others think - it's quite fun engaging with what he has to say.

Broadly speaking, Singer claims he have moral obligations to redistribute wealth up until the point at which the benefits gained by others is outweighed by costs to ourselves. For those of you familiar with Consequentialist moral philosophy, it's a principle derived from the claim that we have obligations to maximise the best possibile consequences for all individuals in every action we take.

To illustrate this, Singer asks us to consider an example (I can't remember it exactly but it goes something like this)... He asks us to imagine that we are walking to a party wearing a fine new suit. A new suit which we've bought today and which has cost us a significant amount of money... let's say £500. Whilst walking, we come across a child drowning in a pond. We are the only person around. The child would be saved if we jump in the pond and ruin our suit to save it. What should we do?

Now, of course everyone will answer - 'We'd save the child and ruin our suit'. Not to do so would simply be unimaginably evil right? Singer then claims that the current issue of poverty is of the same kind. There are children who are dying in the world. We have the resources to help them (the metaphor of the suit). The difference between the drowning child and the children dying of poverty is a difference of degree not a difference of kind. We ought to give as much aid to others as is possible - we must maximise the best possible consequences up until the point at which there are bad consequences for ourselves.

I've explained this pretty quickly. What does everyone think? Is it a good argument? Should we redistribute wealth to such a great extent?

Note that it is a thought experiment so please just assume for the sake of argument that the wealth we distribute will be used wisely and so on etc etc....

[Brutha]

I've explained this pretty quickly. What does everyone think? Is it a good argument? Should we redistribute wealth to such a great extent?

I think we should redistribute wealth more than we are doing at the moment.
On the other hand I don't think that this is a problem that should be dealt with on the individual level.
It is better to deal with the problem on a group level.

The Bugatti scenario is one where you have to act as an individual or otherwise the child will die.
On the other hand the money that one indivdual spends on charity has no significant effect on the amount of saved lives.
That means the good solution (in my mind) is to push for higher foreign aid and other structural factor like lower agrar subventions.

A free market has been the cause of the industrial and technological revolutions.

If every country on earth would do a industrial revolution in the way the US and Europa have done, the enviromental impact would be horrible.
Africa has to take another way.
In addition free markets haven't worked that well in Africa in the last twenty years. We (as western society) have to do more.

[Snooks]

New Zealand,

I completely admire what you are doing...thank you for taking action for a cause you believe so strongly in.

[sockcymbal]

I recently filmed a short documentary about poverty in Atlanta...where 24% of the population lives below the federal poverty level. I certainly did learn a lot, and I heard numerous stories and perspectives from homeless people and professors. I couldn't fit them all into the documentary in 5 minutes, but to a large extent, mental illness plays a huge role, which certainly affects people's social skills, decisions, and abilities.

YouTube - The Art of Overcoming Poverty (Documentary)