Steve, who will you support for president?

[Brutha]

that type of thing may not even happen in steve's life time. Why not some Creative Observation and choosing the best right now? I think Obama is the closest to Steve's standpoint in this particular race that is a viable candidate IMO.

Even when it is contary to a lot of western thought the usage of power has a price.
Trying to produce change by using shi (chinese word that unfortunatly has no resemblence in english), also has advantages.
You should also keep in mind that Steve doesn't read the news, which is a disadvantage if you want to play in an election campain.
In addition you should also keep in mind that I'm not Steve and just interpreting his decisions. (even through I'm a moderator here, the views I expressed in this thread are my own)

According to this website, about half of US income tax is being spent on military expenses. Is this really necessary?

Learn to read your own statistics. You can't really understand a issue like this when you aren't able to understand statistic that are designed to make your point. The website states that that more than the income tax gets spended on military expenses.

Then I think that cutting military funding is a good idea, but I don't think that Ron Paul can cut more military funding than a democratic candidate would due to reasons like party pressure.

[ticktockclok]

Originally Posted by Baltar

necessary evil

Nothing that is evil could ever be necessary.

[Lil Chris]

I'm really suprised that not one person has mentioned that being part of the central banking system was the worst descision this country has ever made. Our country is run by the central banking goons anyway. So it doesn't matter who the president is. Republican / Democrat it's all just a big show that gets repeated every four years.

Consider this my voting friends...
You can never get out of debt if you get charged a fee plus interest to print the money you use to get out of debt...

Furthermore,
There is nothing FEDERAL about the federal reserve, it's a private company, not a government agency...

[Tasaio]

Originally Posted by Lil Chris

I'm really suprised that not one person has mentioned that being part of the central banking system was the worst descision this country has ever made. Our country is run by the central banking goons anyway. So it doesn't matter who the president is. Republican / Democrat it's all just a big show that gets repeated every four years.

Consider this my voting friends...
You can never get out of debt if you get charged a fee plus interest to print the money you use to get out of debt...

Furthermore,
There is nothing FEDERAL about the federal reserve, it's a private company, not a government agency...

What's your point? That it doesn't matter who you vote for?

You claim there is no difference between Democrats and Corrupt-licans...but I bet you voted for the latter. Typical right-wing argument.

If you can't see a difference between Bill Clinton's and Dubya's ways of doing things...then you're either lying, or you're stupid.

And even if the two candidates appear to agree on certain issues (Gore and Bush), you have to remember that you are electing the PARTY behind that candidate.

- - -

On a separate note, it seem Ron Paul wants to withdraw from the UN. Check his website.

[Buddy]

While I'm going to stay out of any political discussion, this:
"Paul is a real Republican, a conservative and a constitutionalist. All those other "republicans" are neocons. They are the machine."
should read Paul is a real liberal. Current liberals are socialists, libertarians are liberals in the true sense of the word.
Agreed about the neos.

[Livgivare]

Originally Posted by Baltar

Taxes are a necessary evil for civilization to function. However, how much tax is necessary and what it's used for is a debatable issue. According to this website, about half of US income tax is being spent on military expenses. Is this really necessary? Who exactly is going to invade this country in the next 50 years? There hasn't been a superpower around that can match the US since the breakup of the Soviet Union. The Iraq war is a total waste of resources and lives. Our tax money is being used to "police the world" (and that phrase is actually a sugar coating for "change things around for the benefit of the US"). So in that sense, taxes can be a terrible thing since they can get misused by those in power.

We in Sweden also ask ourselves how much tax is nessesary, but not like you in USA. The income tax is 33% and all things you buy have tax on them, some as high as 25% or more. And we think that all money is spent on bureacracy and other useless things. But I would not like to live in a country were the tax is down to 3% and no healthcare system is really working for people without insurances to cover up. I think it is a human right to get the health care you need without being affraid of the cost.

Just a tiny little thought on taxes for you Americans to consider next time you blame all bad things on taxes.

Love Leelene

[Ree]

Originally Posted by Baltar

. The Democrats back then were the racists, and controlled pretty much all of the American South. Things have changed significantly since then, and in the future perhaps Republicans will again be the more sensible party.


)

That needed to be pointed out. There are still folks who consider themselves Southern Democrats in the American South.

[Lil Chris]

Originally Posted by Tasaio

What's your point? That it doesn't matter who you vote for?

That's correct sir... The agenda for the country's progression is handled by other groups outside the public view. Politics is a beautifully constructed, well orchestrated DISTRACTION!

Originally Posted by Tasaio

You claim there is no difference between Democrats and Corrupt-licans...but I bet you voted for the latter. Typical right-wing argument.

I made no such claim
You missed my point altogether, sparky...
Voted for neither, I don't vote, haven't voted and don't plan on voting...
I could give a squat about either party

Originally Posted by Tasaio

If you can't see a difference between Bill Clinton's and Dubya's ways of doing things...then you're either lying, or you're stupid.

Oh yeah that must be it...

Originally Posted by Tasaio

And even if the two candidates appear to agree on certain issues (Gore and Bush), you have to remember that you are electing the PARTY behind that candidate.

And Who's behind the PARTY?

[Brutha]

Originally Posted by Lil Chris

Consider this my voting friends...
You can never get out of debt if you get charged a fee plus interest to print the money you use to get out of debt...

Yes, it is supposed to be this way. Countries should print money to get out of debt because that creates a massive amount of inflation.

After Ron Paul there is printed to much money that reduces the debt (the inflation tax argument, the debt shrinkes because of inflation).

Debt has to be reduced by cutting spending and/or increasing tax revenue.

Furthermore,
There is nothing FEDERAL about the federal reserve, it's a private company, not a government agency...

It is neither a private company nor an goverment agency. But it doesn't really matter, what matters are it's actions.
Do you think that Alan Greenspans action were bad for America?

Nothing that is evil could ever be necessary.

It is okay to live in your dreamworld with 15, but the world is complecated. Yin and Yang everywhere, you don't get one without the other.

should read Paul is a real liberal. Current liberals are socialists, libertarians are liberals in the true sense of the word.

After Wikipedia you can be both liberal and conservative. Debating these labels doesn't really lead anywhere through.

[tjflynn2003]

Originally Posted by Love

Hi Jonathon Browne.

I thought I read before that Steve was apolitical?
Or is that not so...?

I was flashed a block add on the site for Ann Coulter's daily newsletter and am none too happy about it. The only explaination was that google sent it through and Steve can't control all the content of the ads?

Seems the Ron Paul sits in the middle between the socialists, who will bankrupt us with social programs and the fascists who will bankrupt us with their foriegn wars and redistribute the wealth to their corporate partners. How about that for apolitical!

[Chado2423]

Perhaps these posts should be on a political forum, since this is site dealing with personal growth. I also believe it highly manipulative to try to get Steve to side with you, simply because you post on his forums.

[Jonathan Browne]

I find it revolting that Americans cant talk about politics without being accused of manipulation. This country was founded on political discussion and action. Im asking Steve to weigh in with his opinion. However, if he believes that ignorance is bliss, than he can deal with the consequences. Just because he makes a lot of money ofrom his blog doesn't mean that posters on his forum shouldn't try to challenge him intellectually...

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

Perhaps these posts should be on a political forum, since this is site dealing with personal growth. I also believe it highly manipulative to try to get Steve to side with you, simply because you post on his forums.

Oh, my, my... It's ALL a reflection of you. The whole planet. You want to learn what drives you? Look at the functioning of government, politics, and elections. That will show you the inner workings of your mind and the self manipulation going on.

If we could talk about politics with some consciousness injected into it, you wouldn't have to talk about anything else on this forum. Problem is, consciousness is in short supply especially when topics come up that push people's buttons. People go right into their reactions and anything that could be gleaned from the thread is lost.

[Brutha]

Im asking Steve to weigh in with his opinion. However, if he believes that ignorance is bliss, than he can deal with the consequences. Just because he makes a lot of money ofrom his blog doesn't mean that posters on his forum shouldn't try to challenge him intellectually...

Steve position isn't one of ignorance. Ignorance is a state of powerlessness.

Lets take the Dalai Lama. Do you think he is ignorant of the evils that happen in Tibet? He isn't bit he still is happy all the time.
It is a different way than the traditional american thinking about politics but it isn't necessarly any worse.

But even the American system knows the conept of Ballots where you don't know what everyone else has voted.
Following that principle you also don't have to say in public which of the candidats you vote for.

The only explaination was that google sent it through and Steve can't control all the content of the ads?

Steve can block Ads from certain sites on a case by case basis, but because there is a huge amount of advertisers Steve doesn't spend much time controling them.

[Buddy]

"I think it is a human right to get the health care you need without being affraid of the cost."

In the US we have a Bill of Rights. Government funding of personal health care isn't among them.

[Livgivare]

Originally Posted by Buddy

"I think it is a human right to get the health care you need without being affraid of the cost."

In the US we have a Bill of Rights. Government funding of personal health care isn't among them.

So You Agree on what I said?

Love Leelene

[Chado2423]

Oops, I guess I made a mistake... This particular thread is not for me. Sorry I interefered. I humbly apologize, and will move myself to the appropiate area. Thanks.

[Dan.Linehan]

@ Brutha

Are politics any better in Europe?

I'm half thinking of leaving the US. Our political system has gotten away from us.

[Livgivare]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

@ Brutha

Are politics any better in Europe?

I'm half thinking of leaving the US. Our political system has gotten away from us.

Some countries are better some countries are worse. But political scientists says that Nordic countries and The Netherlands are the best democratic countries in the world. I don't know...because how shall I know what country is best to live in when I have only tried out Sweden and Norway (my boyfriend lives there) and found no particular differences???

Love Leelene

[Jonathan Browne]

I can't speak for how informed Steve is. However, I remember reading a blog entry of his where he implied the reason he doesn't watch the news is because he can hear what is happening in the world from discussion with other people. I am a person. Therefore I feel the responsibility to get the message out on what I believe to be an important and absolutely unique candidate.

As for Ron Pauls chances of winning....

WATCH THIS VIDEO OF RON PAULS PERFORMANCE DURING THE FOX NEWS REPUBLICAN DEBATE IN NH



Here are the results of the fox polls.


Who stood out from the pack? * 41641 responses





Sam Brownback
0.9%

Jim Gilmore
0.5%

Rudy Giuliani
7.4%

Mike Huckabee
3.1%

Duncan Hunter
1%

John McCain
5.1%

Ron Paul
70%

Mitt Romney
7.5%

Tom Tancredo
2.4%

Tommy Thompson
1.8%

Who showed the most leadership qualities? * 41287 responses

Sam Brownback
0.9%

Jim Gilmore
0.7%

Rudy Giuliani
8.4%

Mike Huckabee
2.4%

Duncan Hunter
1.1%

John McCain
6.8%

Ron Paul
68%

Mitt Romney
8.2%

Tom Tancredo
1.8%

Tommy Thompson
1.7%

Who was the most convincing candidate? * 41098 responses

Sam Brownback
0.9%

Jim Gilmore
0.7%

Rudy Giuliani
7.4%

Mike Huckabee
3%

Duncan Hunter
1%

John McCain
5.4%

Ron Paul
70%

Mitt Romney
7.8%

Tom Tancredo
2%

Tommy Thompson
1.7%

Who had the most rehearsed answers? * 40507 responses

Sam Brownback
2.1%

Jim Gilmore
1%

Rudy Giuliani
40%

Mike Huckabee
2.2%

Duncan Hunter
0.9%

John McCain
19%

Ron Paul
8.1%

Mitt Romney
23%

Tom Tancredo
1.3%

Tommy Thompson
2.8%

Who avoided the questions? * 40211 responses

Sam Brownback
2.7%

Jim Gilmore
1.6%

Rudy Giuliani
46%

Mike Huckabee
1.9%

Duncan Hunter
1.2%

John McCain
15%

Ron Paul
6.2%

Mitt Romney
21%

Tom Tancredo
1.7%

Tommy Thompson
2.8%

Who had the best one-liner? * 39766 responses

Sam Brownback
1.4%

Jim Gilmore
1.2%

Rudy Giuliani
13%

Mike Huckabee
6.3%

Duncan Hunter
1.7%

John McCain
7.3%

Ron Paul
52%

Mitt Romney
5.3%

Tom Tancredo
6.7%

Tommy Thompson
5.1%

[Brutha]

In the US we have a Bill of Rights. Government funding of personal health care isn't among them.

How can you persue happiness without health?

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

@ Brutha

Are politics any better in Europe?

I'm half thinking of leaving the US. Our political system has gotten away from us.

A lot of people in Germany will tell you that they are unhappy with the way politics are going.
One example: People who can't get a job get a minimum of 347€ + rent in wellfare benifits . They have to take job offers if there are any (if they decline the job offers they get less money).
People demostrate and claim that it is unhuman to pay them only that much.
Our political discuss happens on another level.
You don't need to be a millionaire to run for president in Germany because we have publically funded elections.
The campain spots you see on TV have a far lesser significance for the elections than those in America.
A election got won by saying NO to Irak war, and we are discussion whether we should have soldiers in Afganistan that help them building up (our german soldiers are stationed in the North/East and the war actions take part in the South).

I guess it depends on your critiera for better. I think our political system works better than the US system (I know a bit about what happens in the US through readering blogs and forums, but I have never lived there). You can read one of our news magazins in english to make yourself an impression: International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News
Being 21 I have only lived in Germany and haven't left Europe in vacations so I can't compare living here vs. living elsewhere.

[Buddy]

"So You Agree on what I said?"

No. it's a right. No one had free or any sort of public healthcare until modern times.

[Dharma]

From the Declaration of Independence, USA

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

So you could say access to healthcare would be in there. The intent is for the government to protect each person's unalienable Rights, not implement them (as in Universal Healthcare).

There is access to healthcare, everywhere. No hospital can turn you away. Where the argument goes is quality, cost, and convenience of the care. Is that the government's role? Could not people get together and form their own solutions? (The shortsightedness and unconscious actions of Americans have brought the system we have today. I can't really see the government changing it for the better while the same consciousness is still there. )

[Dan.Linehan]

I'm pretty sure Bush has pre-senile dementia. Probably from Creutzfeldt-Jakob / prions.

He's absolutely ruined our economy, and we have no recourse.

No one has done a goddamn thing about it; we've accepted the unacceptable.



What a waste.

[madgeylou]

Originally Posted by Buddy

"So You Agree on what I said?"

No. it's a right. No one had free or any sort of public healthcare until modern times.

false. human beings had all the support they needed before civilization, and aboriginal peoples still do.

[TechnoGuyRob]

Originally Posted by Brutha

The democratic candidacts are also against the war and the patriotic act.

This is plain wrong, just so everyone is aware. The Democratic "candidacts [sic]" are all for the "patriotic [sic]" act, except the enlightened Gravel and Kucinich.

I shouldn't have to say this, but do verify everything said on discussion boards with your own research, especially if it involves something as important as electing the most powerful person in the world.

[Kiba]

I support the idea of anarchy(thought there are different anarchist school of thoughts). However, I relaize such a stateless society will never work in a world of imperfect men.

So I support the next best political policy, libertarianism.

From what I read in his wikipedia entry, I choose Ron Paul as a candidate of choice if I were to vote for him.

My position is primary the abolition of the patent system, and reduction in power of copyright power. So it seem that I am primary concerned with the economic system and lean strongly toward anchro-capitalism.

I do not have a strong view about other area primary because I didn't debate and study these topics.

And for that, I'll vote Ron Paul if I were 18.

[Buddy]

false. human beings had all the support they needed before civilization, and aboriginal peoples still do.

I appreciate your idealism, but natives got gangrene and died. They developed disease and old age and died. The were attacked by animals and died. They sometimes starved to death. But none of this is germane to the topic. There is no a priori right to government sponsored health care. There is no support for it in our constitution.

[Livgivare]

@Buddy
Churches in many countries espesially in the northen Europe took care of people even if it was really expensive, I don't think that it is idealism to believe that health care can be provided for the people by government. You see in Sweden we give healthcare for free both general and dental to people under 20 years, we have discount on healthcare that costs over 90 € each year and the medicine is also on discount at 150 € or above that. My dad got an cochlear implant for free and I get therapy from the hospital for free when the prize is over 90 €. tne Municiple, State and government pays for all exess. And what is more beautiful with Sweden is that we have a rule saying that the least expensive drug has to be the one that the person get at the drugstore. If you deside to have the original more expensive one you have to pay the "between-prize"...It is totally un-idealistic and true. Non of the political parties in Sweden would dare to say no to this. And even the party that is most alike the ones in USA is pro this system.

I guess that USA problem is that all government and health care system is ruled by lobbyist from the companies who will benefit most from not having the system we have in Sweden. And by the way among 25 developed rich countries USA is the only one who do not think like Sweden does and say it is a human right to give health care to the people in the way that everyone gets it.

Love Leelene

[Dharma]

Watch how you use the word 'free'. You pay for the benefit in your taxes and you have a higher tax burden that people in the USA.

Now as far as the USA being a rich nation? Ha! We're a nation in debt. As long as this Iraq war goes on and they keep printing money that's not backed by anything, we're one step closer to bankruptcy.

Some say "they're" doing it to make us accept the "Amero" and North American Union, but that is fodder for another thread. Don't think we're rich.