Do any normal people use linux?

[runningbird]

Forgive the term "normal"; I mean, do people use linux who are not complete open source software fanatics? I actually only have linux on my computer myself, but I do not know how to do anything; I can't install any programs, mainly. It has some great features like the ftp, instant message, and bittorrent clients are integrately really well. It loads really quickly.

But then I will look up how to install a program, and some guy in a linux forum enthusiastically writes out 20 lines of code, saying that the installation doesn't work for all programs, but hey, it works for some! I mean come on, all I wanted to do was install the penguin game.

I realize there are some linux distributions where you don't need to know anything, like Linux Mint and Ubuntu, but these are very slow in my experience and are more or less Windows clones.

[Daffy Duck]

Tons of people use Linux, often without even knowing. Ya know those tiny $300 laptops? A lot of them have Linux installed.

[Eric Roosevelt]

Originally Posted by runningbird

Forgive the term "normal"; I mean, do people use linux who are not complete open source software fanatics?

Sure, I use Linux. The good thing about it is that you can choose between Linux and Windows at every start up, so you can always switch to windows if there's something you don't know how to do.

Linux has many advantages, including being less prone to viruses and bugs.

I actually only have linux on my computer myself, but I do not know how to do anything; I can't install any programs, mainly.

Look under the Administration menu (under the System menu) and you'll find an application called "synaptic". Here you can install lots of good programs. You can also go to "Add/Remove" under the Applications menu. Installing downloaded programs can sometimes be a bit more complicated, of course.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by runningbird

I realize there are some linux distributions where you don't need to know anything, like Linux Mint and Ubuntu, but these are very slow in my experience and are more or less Windows clones.

I don't know where you got this idea from! As far as I know, Ubuntu is not slower than any other OS. It's also not a Windows clone, it's basically a normal debian, just made a bit more user friendly.

What you see on the graphical desktop is called the window manager, which has little to do with the OS itself. Default is gnome on Ubuntu I think, but if you don't like it, you can change it. There are plenty of other window managers available, some of which look extremely linuxy.

Actually I think Ubuntu would be great for you.

Which linux do you have now? Maybe we can help with installing programs etc.

Edit: Eric, not everybody uses gnome. If Runningbird currently uses another window manager, then there won't be any "System" and "Applications" and maybe even no menu at all.

[RJlogs]

Haha, couldn't stop reading this post ( because of the title ).

Ubuntu, slow?!, windows clone? I don't really get what you mean there, it runs on the same core as many other linuxes, and has nothing to do with windows.

Actually, it's one of the popular distros, partly because of its ease of use. I have Ubuntu too, and it's really great.

I encourage you to try it out, especially if you're not very good at this stuff. Ubuntu has some really good features for newbies, for example a complete add/remove programs graphical user interface ( wait a sec, just what you're looking for, isn't it? ), and if you want any help, the easiest to find online, the internet is full of Ubuntu-related articles and forums posts.

What I liked about it the most is you can progressively move toward from the newbie tools to the advanced stuff as you learn about linux, and doesn't have to feel lost at the beginning.

[martinogg]

I have installed ubuntu on my laptop and I find it does all I need it to, faster and more safely than windows. The only issues I have found really is when recommending it to others, the re-training how to use and installation instructions. I believe we are now really seeing the age of OS independance; what matters now is what browser you are running! And because firefox and open office is so prevelant (and compatible to windows only apps) the only problem i really see is people's unwillingness to travel out of their comfort-zone to try out a new OS.

One thing I'd add is seeing quite how similar mac OS is to ubuntu in places. Im sure that it would be easier to convince a mac user over to a PC with ubutu quite easily

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by runningbird

Forgive the term "normal"; I mean, do people use linux who are not complete open source software fanatics?
...

I am normal because I use Linux. It's the Windows types that have left the asylum before they were ready.

OK jokes aside, what linux do you have and what programs would you like to install? Like others I recommend Ubuntu. Easy to install and maintain.

[bluedragon]

I also like the idea of linux and if I knew about Ubuntu 2 years ago, I would certainly be using it now. But I didn't have time to figure it out then, and now I'm just satisfied with the way Windows works. I mean, I love the idea of having more control over your computer as in Linux, and I plan to learn it in the future. I sometimes really want to be able to make the computer listen to me, instead of trying in vain to open some stupid program and crashing instead of doing what I want. However, I think even Linux crashes sometimes, doesn't it?

Right now for me, I don't think it would make any significant difference if I switched to Linux, but I am waiting for an intelligent OS to be released - now that would be cool.

[RJlogs]

Originally Posted by bluedragon

However, I think even Linux crashes sometimes, doesn't it?

Right now for me, I don't think it would make any significant difference if I switched to Linux, but I am waiting for an intelligent OS to be released - now that would be cool.

Crash? Not really, at least I haven't experienced it so far. Some programs might misbehave sometime, but that's always a software bug or hardware related...

As for the significant difference, the main reason I switched to Linux was so I don't have to constantly fight viruses and worms and such, ... but to my biggest surprise there were other differences as well: internet is way faster, and of course opengl based applications are too ( at least 2 times faster! )

[Eric Roosevelt]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Edit: Eric, not everybody uses gnome. If Runningbird currently uses another window manager, then there won't be any "System" and "Applications" and maybe even no menu at all.

That's true. Of course you can install programs using the terminal as well, but that takes a bit more time to learn.

[Angela Leeds]

I've been wondering lately... how would someone with no Linux experience whatsoever begin to make a transition to Linux? I love the idea of it, but just don't know the ins & outs of what would be required knowledge & action on my part to get a system running Linux.

Any suggested starting points/tutorials/checklists from you Linux people? I'm used to both Windows & Mac and, although there are things about Mac I don't like, I'm currently inclined to make my next system a Mac for its stability...unless I resolve my Linux knowledge gap.

[Brutha]

Crash? Not really, at least I haven't experienced it so far. Some programs might misbehave sometime, but that's always a software bug or hardware related...

Of course every crash comes from some bug.

[spirit4711]

@Angela, you can download a user-friendly Ubuntu version, burn it on CD and run it from there for testing or try-out. In many aspects it behaves like Windows or Apple OS. If you like it, you can install it on the same machine as e.g. Windows, and on start-up you choose to boot Windows or Linux. From Linux you will be able to access your Windows files too .

[Lawliet]

To answer the OP... I've known a lot of "normal" people to have Linux installed for them or they've bought computers with it pre-installed.

In my opinion - much like Firefox - Linux is good in its own way, but it gets overhyped and overrated. Gentoo on my PC, Debian on my PC and Yellow Dog on my PS3 all take MUCH longer than Windows to boot. Yes it crashes. "Out-of-the-box" Debian crashes my PC every hour without fail. "30 minute install on old hardware"? Try 4 days getting Gentoo and GNOME compiled on a 400Mhz CPU.

I guess it really comes down to what you're comfortable with.

[openeyes]

I use Puppy Linux on my seven year old laptop and it enables it to run just as fast as my new computer (with Vista). The entire OS can run via RAM since it's under 100 megabytes. Install took well under 30 minutes, including creation of an .iso cd (and I'd never made one before, I just followed online directions), and the only area in which it's lacking is I couldn't watch online netflix videos on it since internet explorer was required.

[runningbird]

Let's try this again. My internet blipped out right when I hit submit last time and I lost it. I'm using ZenWalk, which I think is an offshoot of the Slackware distribution. I have tried Linux Mint, Ubuntu, and a couple other distros I can't even remember, but they were all significantly slower than Windows XP on my somewhat slow, refurbished laptop. ZenWalk is basically the exception, although I've noticed videos don't play as well as with XP - they tend to run at very low FPS.

By Windows "clones" I just meant the GUI, which I realize isn't entirely accurate. I just meant I don't see anything in the way you perform tasks that make these Linux distros a compelling choice over Windows. The virtually nil risk of virus is certainly a nice perk, but I've never paid much attention to them anyway.

I don't understand how you could install it in under 30 minutes without prior knowledge; I spent 30 minutes just reading about how to install it side by side with Windows, and ended up accidentally deleting all my files regardless.

[RJlogs]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Of course every crash comes from some bug.

Wow, almost offensive.

As crash, I meant system crash, the kinda thing that happens on Windows all the time, when you can't do anything but reboot, which I haven't experienced on Linux so far.

If a program crashed, that didn't affect my system or my other programs.
That's all I meant.

[RJlogs]

Originally Posted by runningbird

Let's try this again. My internet blipped out right when I hit submit last time and I lost it. I'm using ZenWalk, which I think is an offshoot of the Slackware distribution. I have tried Linux Mint, Ubuntu, and a couple other distros I can't even remember, but they were all significantly slower than Windows XP on my somewhat slow, refurbished laptop. ZenWalk is basically the exception, although I've noticed videos don't play as well as with XP - they tend to run at very low FPS.

By Windows "clones" I just meant the GUI, which I realize isn't entirely accurate. I just meant I don't see anything in the way you perform tasks that make these Linux distros a compelling choice over Windows. The virtually nil risk of virus is certainly a nice perk, but I've never paid much attention to them anyway.

I don't understand how you could install it in under 30 minutes without prior knowledge; I spent 30 minutes just reading about how to install it side by side with Windows, and ended up accidentally deleting all my files regardless.

Hmm, I can't imagine why Ubuntu would be slower on your laptop, but if that's the case, you should ask around on the Ubuntu forums, I'm sure there are guys there who can tell you that.

I'm just saying because I've found that other Linux distros can be way more difficult to deal with without some Linux and/or programming knowledge at the beginning.
Ubuntu installation really takes only about 30 minutes and I'd say it's almost automatic, although the dual-boot install may be difficult for those who don't know how to do it.

Just a tip: when I did this for the first time, I've created a new empty partition from Windows ( I don't remember which program it was ), then selected that one when intalling linux.
It's easier than creating a new partition during installation.

[Daffy Duck]

Runningbird, why are you considering Linux? Have you heard a lot about it and wanted to try? Is there some problem with Windows you're having?

Originally Posted by RJlogs

As crash, I meant system crash, the kinda thing that happens on Windows all the time.

This used to be more true in the 90s, but ever since Windows 2000/XP came out, my Windows computers almost never crash. As long as a user keeps their system clean and doesn't try to open 20 things at once, it's usually fine. I'm using Windows Vista at work and the computer can stay on and snappy for a month with no issues.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by bluedragon

However, I think even Linux crashes sometimes, doesn't it?

You really need to f*** your linux up big time for it to crash. Mine can run 24/7 for weeks and just never crashes. It does not even get slower over time.

My firefox crashes from time to time. I highly suspect this comes from firefox, though, not from debian.

Originally Posted by Brutha

Of course every crash comes from some bug.

I think what RJlogs meant is that when some program misbehaves, the bug is in the program, not in the OS. I agree with this (in the case of linux as the OS).

Originally Posted by Lawliet

Gentoo on my PC, Debian on my PC and Yellow Dog on my PS3 all take MUCH longer than Windows to boot. Yes it crashes. "Out-of-the-box" Debian crashes my PC every hour without fail.

No offense, but there is something MAJORLY wrong, either with your hardware, or with your installation.

Originally Posted by runningbird

By Windows "clones" I just meant the GUI, which I realize isn't entirely accurate.

You don't have to use window managers that look similar to Windows. This is what the desktop on my previous computer looked like:

.

This window manager is called fvwm2. No panels, no menus, not even a mouse required. I controlled it entirely with the keyboard.

I just meant I don't see anything in the way you perform tasks that make these Linux distros a compelling choice over Windows.

Not even apt-get install? Or the full control you have over your system? Or the open source thing? I can see many advantages. Maybe learning shell commands would change your viewpoint?

But then again, you're not me, and it's fine if you're not a linux fan. I'm just wondering, If you don't see any reason for using linux, and have problems with it on top of that, why do you want to use it in the first place?

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

...
My firefox crashes from time to time. I highly suspect this comes from firefox, though, not from debian.
...

Same here. FF is using a lot of resources too. Also in Windows BTW.

But then again, you're not me, and it's fine if you're not a linux fan. I'm just wondering, If you don't see any reason for using linux, and have problems with it on top of that, why do you want to use it in the first place?

Great question!

[vMike]

nope.. linux is for the geeks and servers

[themaster]

I have only used linux for servers.. I would never recommend it for the desktop.. unless you really enjoy hours and hours and hours of messing with your operating system to hook up you "printer" and then on to the next challenge

Here's the difference if you want a comparison.. you decide today you want to hook up a scanner.. you go to office depot/walmart/whathaveyou

Get that printer.. if you have windows
- 99% chance you will get it up and running within a hour tops..
- Mac OSX 10% chance you will get it running within a hour tops (if the box says it supports that = good for you)
- 1% chance you will get it running on linux (unless you did hours of internet research before hand to make sure it's plug n play for your OS) let's say you’re one of those geek types and are good at creating kernels, modules etc. then you can have it up at 1 hour maybe.. but maybe not and if you’re a common user.. you’re screwed

Here's the thing.. unix unless for the server environment is just a toy/hobby os.. (so is Mac OSX) if you try and mess around with it as a real OS.. you eventually just be dragged back to windows like everyone else.. cause they truly dominate.. by the one fact that everyone.. uses WINDOWS..

[Lawliet]

Never mind printers; I had to search for a good few days to find a working module for my sound card when I was giving Debian a try.

No offense, but there is something MAJORLY wrong, either with your hardware, or with your installation.

This sort of backwards logic always tickles me. If Windows doesn't work, Windows sucks. If Linux doesn't work, the hardware sucks. :P

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Lawliet

This sort of backwards logic always tickles me. If Windows doesn't work, Windows sucks. If Linux doesn't work, the hardware sucks. :P

Naah... If you had said that your Windows crashes once an hour, I would also have said that there is something majorly wrong either with your hardware or with your installation. It is just not normal for any OS to crash once an hour!

Originally Posted by themaster

unix unless for the server environment is just a toy/hobby os.. (so is Mac OSX) if you try and mess around with it as a real OS.. you eventually just be dragged back to windows like everyone else.. cause they truly dominate.. by the one fact that everyone.. uses WINDOWS..

It is not true that everyone uses Windows. Plus, that's not an argument anyway.

I've been using Debian for nine years now and have never felt dragged back to Windows.

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Tons of people use Linux, often without even knowing. Ya know those tiny $300 laptops? A lot of them have Linux installed.

I've used one of those. I'm not sure which version of Linux that had on it (it was an Asus Eee), but I quite liked it. It did everything it needed to do as a mini-PC.

At the moment the PC I use is a laptop with Windows Vista (if I had my way, it'd have XP on it), mostly because I desire the flexibility that comes with a Windows PC (a Mac would be nice, but they were a bit expensive relative to the type of PC I could buy with the same amount of cash at the time).

I have a friend who's an eletrical engineer. I spoke to him quite often last year and in the years before that, and he was always telling me he was "switching to a different OS" (i.e. from Linux to Windows. He was switching so we could play a game together, not because he thought Linus sucked. He did a fair bit of programming from what I know, and I think he used it quite often).

I've even considered installing Linux, but I haven't felt a need to yet. Lots of people give Windows flack (sometimes for good reason), but the flexibility (i.e. most programs are designed to run on it; there's lots you can do on a windows PC) and user-friendliness (gasp! I just said "Windows" and "user-friendliness" in the same sentence) are quite nice.

Neither my friend or myself are Windows or Linux finatics. For us, I think preference and functionality are more important. Okay, my friend was a computer science student who knew his stuff, and I'm also pretty tech savvy (in certain areas, at least... I have some areas where I know squat, heh), but we definitely don't fall into the "fanatic" category.

[Angela Leeds]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

@Angela, you can download a user-friendly Ubuntu version, burn it on CD and run it from there for testing or try-out. In many aspects it behaves like Windows or Apple OS. If you like it, you can install it on the same machine as e.g. Windows, and on start-up you choose to boot Windows or Linux. From Linux you will be able to access your Windows files too .

Thank you, spirit. I will check it out.

[ragtag]

Quite a few normal people use linux. Friends of mine have installed linux on their parents and even grand parents computers, and they do just fine.

Like many before, I would recomend Ubuntu, as it's easy to install, even as a second OS on a Windows box. Or you can try this Complete Download Options List | Ubuntu It let's you play with Ubuntu as a Windows application (no full OS install required).

The performance slowdown in Linux, if it's mostly while browsing, might simply be Flash. It eats way more resources and is way slower on Linux than on Windows. Blame Adobe, not Linux.

As a general rule, people who don't know much about computers, have a hard time installing an OS...be it Windows or Linux. OSX, might be a notch simpler, but they still get into trouble. Most people buy their computer with Windows pre-installed, so they never have to install it (at least not until Windows has been ground to a halt by malware and viruses...and then they generally call a tech savy friend or take it in for service).

The hardware compatability issue goes a bit both ways. For old hardware you may find drivers on Linux, but only Win98 drivers for Windows, so you're out of luck if you're running WinXP/Vista/7. On the other hand, a big reason for much of the hardware incompatability on Linux, is that hardware manufacturers don't make their technical documentation available to Linux developers. Which means that if Linux developers want to make drivers for the device, they need to reverse engineer it....which is very VERY hard.

From all of the above, you might have deducted that I am a bit of a Linux geek. But I also run WindowsXP and OS X. Ubuntu is my main OS, WinXP gets used for games and video on demand service (that require DRM7), while my OSX laptop is slowly gathering a layer of dust. Different OS's work for different people.

[runningbird]

One more thing that inspired this post....my roommate in college, an electrical engineer, would spend long hours boarded up in his tiny room. When he came out he would look a disheveled mess. When I asked him what he was doing in there he would always groan: "trying to get linux to work...." lol

[Daffy Duck]

Linux has made great strides in its ease of use, but it wasn't really meant to replace Windows. It could happen one day but that's very far in the future.