Do any normal people use linux?

[themaster]

I agree daffy.. you know what I remembered when I was reading this thread..

If microsoft could ever collapse under its own weight then there should be a OS ready to take its place.. and that may happen or not.. but until then I stay microsoft and repair microsoft too

For those not in the know.. Windows 7 will be released in 2 months and be available for normal people in October

[Lauxa]

Originally Posted by themaster

Here's the difference if you want a comparison.. you decide today you want to hook up a scanner.. you go to office depot/walmart/whathaveyou

Get that printer.. if you have windows
- 99% chance you will get it up and running within a hour tops..
- Mac OSX 10% chance you will get it running within a hour tops (if the box says it supports that = good for you)
- 1% chance you will get it running on linux (unless you did hours of internet research before hand to make sure it's plug n play for your OS) let's say you’re one of those geek types and are good at creating kernels, modules etc. then you can have it up at 1 hour maybe.. but maybe not and if you’re a common user.. you’re screwed

Well, of course I'm going to do some research before I make a major computer purchase like a scanner. For instance, I might peruse this list of scanners that are compatable with Ubuntu.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupp...onentsScanners

Of course, if I already bought the scanner and then decided to install Linux and found out it didn't work anymore, now THAT would be a good probability.

[vMike]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

Well, of course I'm going to do some research before I make a major computer purchase like a scanner. For instance, I might peruse this list of scanners that are compatable with Ubuntu.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupp...onentsScanners

Of course, if I already bought the scanner and then decided to install Linux and found out it didn't work anymore, now THAT would be a good probability.

see, that's the difference.. a regular windows user would just go and buy a cheap $50-100 scanner and have it working within an hour, without wasting much time on research.

[ragtag]

Hardware drivers, such as those for a scanner, are pretty much a chicken/egg story. The people that make scanners mostly feel it's not worth their time to support Linux (or OSX in some cases), so they don't make drivers, or even provide the basic info needed for others to make open source drivers. The bigger market share linux gets, more companies will consider it a valid option and will begin shipping their hardware (and software) for linux. Some do this already, but not nearly all.

So, if Linux got 30% of the desktop market (not likely to happen any time soon), then the people making scanners would ship them with linux software too...or risk loosing 30% of their sales.

As a side note. Many normal people may be using Linux or Free/OpenBSD today without knowing it, in things like the Android Phones, some GPS's, network router, the server hosting their web page, and so on. The core of OSX is based on BSD, which is open source and similar to Linux in many ways, just with spiffy Apple graphics on top.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by ragtag

As a side note. Many normal people may be using Linux or Free/OpenBSD today without knowing it, in things like the Android Phones, some GPS's, network router, the server hosting their web page, and so on. The core of OSX is based on BSD, which is open source and similar to Linux in many ways, just with spiffy Apple graphics on top.

To add on to your list.. last time I checked "Tivo" runs on linux too..

[Rose of Cairo]

Exactly. In the costs/benefits model of those who produce printers, scanners etc., or computer games for that matter, those people using Linux just are too small a target audience to be worth considering.

But this is changing nowadays. More and more people start using Linux. Now that we have Ubuntu, which is made for average users and very easy to use, this is going to change even more.

And when more people use Linux, there will be more drivers and games for Linux, and then even more people will use it, and then there will be even more drivers and games, and ...

[loic]

The only reason I don't use Linux regularly is:
* because I play games a lot and can't be bothered to have any incompatibilities, though this point might be moot since most of the games now run on wine
* My windows pc has been completely installed for years now, and I can't be bothered to wipe it clean.

If my disk crashed, i would go linux. It is just smarter in everyway. Better looking, more efficient, more stable. I sometimes wonder why people even use a crippled OS like windows nowadays.

[runningbird]

But then again, you're not me, and it's fine if you're not a linux fan. I'm just wondering, If you don't see any reason for using linux, and have problems with it on top of that, why do you want to use it in the first place?

The answer to this is that I was getting a lot of error messages with Windows and I felt like learning a new skill, so I decided to try linux. After wiping out Windows, I am not sure how to install it side by side with Linux; I have a bunch of important files and I have nowhere to store them. I tried mediafire but it doesn't let you copy and paste folders. I have wayyy to many folders.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by runningbird

The answer to this is that I was getting a lot of error messages with Windows and I felt like learning a new skill, so I decided to try linux. After wiping out Windows, I am not sure how to install it side by side with Linux; I have a bunch of important files and I have nowhere to store them. I tried mediafire but it doesn't let you copy and paste folders. I have wayyy to many folders.

See upgrading or changing over should not be a difficult system.. microsoft is nowhere near ready to crumble.. if you have that much of a headache.. I have 1 Tb of personal data.. imagine me trying to figure out how to get that from ntfs to ext3, imagine me trying to change music players, browsers, usenet app's and the list goes on and on.. a upgrade or change over should be seamless..

Anyone else that tries is bound to come back to windows.. I will not lie and say unix is not a alternative.. what I will say is it is a 10x harder alternative that you will have to work at.. Windows for now is the "path of least resistance" but resist if you wish too

[nin64]

Fedora user here

Also, Linux are for geeks, and geeks shall inherit the earth, whether you like it or not.

[Indy107]

Don't ya just love these PC vs Linux debates! Ubuntu user here - 5 years now. I started in a dual-boot with Windows to compare - and wouldn't you know it - Windows crashed. So I got stuck with Linux - and now I couldn't think of using anything else. I'm normal as they come. I don't use the terminal window. I don't talk geek or type code. And hooking up a printer is actually pretty darn easy.

I don't dislike windows. I use to own a computer repair shop - so actually windows made me lots of money fixing all the crashes and removing all the viruses. Which - by the way - you never have to worry about with Linux.

Chuck

[james133]

I have tried switching to Linux in the past, but I returned to Windows every time. I used Knoppix for a few weeks, was defeated by the installer in Debian, gave up hope on Slackware since I failed at Debian, and couldn't get OpenSUSE to install. I dual-booted Windows Vista and Ubuntu 8.04 for a while on a tablet PC but went back to Windows XP Tablet Edition; Windows has better tablet PC software, the fingerprint scanner works better in Windows, and Youtube streams don't inexplicably stop after about a minute in Windows.

About a week ago, I quit gaming, and I wiped Windows XP Tablet Edition and installed Ubuntu 9.04. Everything went well until I tried to transfer back data from my external hard drive. I plugged it in by USB, but no icon appeared for the drive. Firewire was unsuccessful too. I Googled the problem, opened a terminal, and entered "sudo fdisk -l." Linux recognized the hard drive as some weird "OnTrack6" format. I searched for a workaround and determined I needed to insert a modifier into grub.conf. When I couldn't find this file, I searched some more and learned Ubuntu has menu.lst instead of grub.conf. Then I had to suss out the "gksudo gedit menu.lst" command because I can't just open up a file, edit it, and save it like I can in Windows. I inserted the modifier into different places in menu.lst because nowhere online made it clear where exactly to put it. Linux continued to read my drive as an odd format. Then, I finally read that the workaround was ineffective for connection by USB--that it only worked for the IDE bus. (OnTrack6, by the way, allows older Windows OSes like Windows 98 to read and use the entirety rather than just a portion of large, modern hard drives.) In the end, I transferred the data to the girlfriend's computer and--because it was rather full--to DVDs, reformatted the external hard drive with gparted in FAT32, transferred everything back onto it, and then finally copied that to my computer.

I am now downloading Windows 7 release candidate.

It's always something with Linux. The GUI isn't as polished. The software isn't as functional. The hardware requires hours of researching workarounds, isn't compatible, or requires hours of researching to discover it isn't compatible. Video streaming/downloading still hiccups and hangs in Ubuntu 9.04 for me.

I want to like Linux. I really do. When Ubuntu 9.10 comes out, maybe I'll try to like it again.

[tomtyi]

Then I had to suss out the "gksudo gedit menu.lst" command because I can't just open up a file, edit it, and save it like I can in Windows.

>it is because the difference of the basic philosophy of Window$ and any Unix-like system.
1. two kind of wrong approachies in Window$:
a) in general and in this case surely you are logged in as a system administrator
b) the basic policy in Window$: you can do nothing that is not prohibited
2. two kind of good approachies in Unix-like systems
a) mostly you are logged in as a simple user but may have some admin rights
b) the basic policy in Unix-like systems: you can do nothing that is not permitted.
menu.lst is an important part of the system, you can NOT edit it as a user even if you are the admin. but you can get extra rights using the sudo command and the permitted user's password to do that. so in this point of view not the Linux bad but your habits got using Window$ for long years in a wrong way.

(OnTrack6, by the way, allows older Windows OSes like Windows 98 to read and use the entirety rather than just a portion of large, modern hard drives.)

>so what did you expect? it is a recovery tool (or something like this) for old Window$ OSes, nothing about Linux. it is not a bootable filesystem nor a supported filetype in Linux. So? pebkac?

[Trezker]

My printer was easy to hook up to Ubuntu. Took just a minute on the computer it was connected to and my other computer found it on the network. No problem.

My wireless network works fine. Both on the desktop and my old laptop that runs OpenSUSE.

I really enjoy the compiz cube and wobbly windows. I can't live without it, I die a little inside if my windows don't wobble.

As for "windows clone", that's only on the surface. And I might be a little unimaginative but I really can't imagine it looking much different. You have windows and menus that are skinnable... Both windows and Linux offer quite dynamic skinning now I think, how different can it be?

There's one thing I really love about linux though, concerning the visual. Popups! On windows when I got a meesage on IM or a systray bubble it snapped me out of fullscreen apps and demanded all my attention. Which of course could be a matter of life and death in action games.

In Ubuntu, popups don't force themselves on me. They just show themselves calmly in the background and I can respond to them at my convenience.

Then of course there's the whole security thing. Linux has the concept called "root" that always requires password. So the core of your system can't be accessed without your expressed approval. This means your system is designed to be safe from attacks from the ground up.

Windows on the other hand seems to try implementing something they say is like the concept of root. But in practice it's useless. Not to mention Microsoft is incredibly disrespectful to their customers' integrity in general.

[james133]

Originally Posted by tomtyi

>it is because the difference of the basic philosophy of Window$ and any Unix-like system.

I understand that, and that is why I want to like Linux.

Originally Posted by tomtyi

>so what did you expect? it is a recovery tool (or something like this) for old Window$ OSes, nothing about Linux. it is not a bootable filesystem nor a supported filetype in Linux. So? pebkac?

I expect a distribution like Ubuntu to make migration for Windows users easy. The file system was either FAT32 or NTFS--I don't remember which. If Linux can be made to workaround OnTrack6 on IDE bus, then can it not be made to do the same for USB? And can this not be coded into a distribution like Ubuntu? But thanks for insulting me.

[vMike]

Originally Posted by nin64

Fedora user here

Also, Linux are for geeks, and geeks shall inherit the earth, whether you like it or not.

they could if they weren't that lazy..

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by james133

I understand that, and that is why I want to like Linux.



I expect a distribution like Ubuntu to make migration for Windows users easy. The file system was either FAT32 or NTFS--I don't remember which. If Linux can be made to workaround OnTrack6 on IDE bus, then can it not be made to do the same for USB? And can this not be coded into a distribution like Ubuntu? But thanks for insulting me.

Not sure what you mean here, but Ubuntu reads and writes my Windows Vista disk quite nicely. Same for external harddisk and USB stick. No config, just out of the box.

[tomtyi]

then i was wrong and sorry for that!

was it able in bios to boot from usb thing?

and finally Ubuntu has nothing to do with this recovery file, it can only mount if you plug in when Ubuntu runs. but if your pc can boot from usb things and the bios setup is good you could boot from usb hd. but the filetype of this recovery is not compatibile with Linux distros. if you talk about this:
http://buyonline.ontrack.com/ecom/ca...?cookie_test=1
or did i miss something?

and i think if in the boot sequence the usb is before hd you can boot from it. you do not have to edit menu.lst or fstab or anything in Linux. 'cos for example when you boot from a cd it does not have to write anywhere in Linux 'cos it boot from it before Linux is loaded in.

or you have to mount it simply. mount(8): mount file system - Linux man page
but i thing you can do nothing with this mounted filetype/system. so i think practically you should boot from it.

[Carling]

Originally Posted by runningbird

Forgive the term "normal"; I mean, do people use linux who are not complete open source software fanatics? I actually only have linux on my computer myself, but I do not know how to do anything; I can't install any programs, mainly. It has some great features like the ftp, instant message, and bittorrent clients are integrately really well. It loads really quickly.

But then I will look up how to install a program, and some guy in a linux forum enthusiastically writes out 20 lines of code, saying that the installation doesn't work for all programs, but hey, it works for some! I mean come on, all I wanted to do was install the penguin game.

I realize there are some linux distributions where you don't need to know anything, like Linux Mint and Ubuntu, but these are very slow in my experience and are more or less Windows clones.

So lets start from the beginning what is you're experience with windows? When you have the audacity to state that Linux Mint and Ubuntu, are very slow are more or less Windows clones, that tells me you haven't got a clue what you're talking about

Having used and installed MS Windows (every version) from the very first version to the very latest version Windows 7 RC, I have never found windows to be fast in any way shape or form. It has taken MS 9 years to get XP right, they are just about getting there with vista, and windows 7 will not be bug free when it is released. Vista was a total **** up, windows 7 is a clone of vista with better hardware drivers and a bit more eye candy with a few more Icons thrown in, Windows has no 3D Desktop Graphics at all,

How ever with windows 7 it did totally crash my system not once but three time, I didn't even get the BSoD Linux all distribution, 20 in total I have tested and used, not one of them have totally crashed my systems, and as for installing Linux a cave man could do it

At this moment in time I have set up a old 1999 Dell Dimension L566cx running Xubuntu 9.4 quite fast once it is booted at least it's running a secure 2009 OS that's more than can be said for Microsoft operating systems, this system could only run windows 98, Yes I can see why Linux is difficult for you. one needs to read the installation instruction which is not difficult to do, one need to do some research on dual booting before attempting it, the morel of this is mover on if Linux is beyond your windows capabilities, stop griping about it, don't blame Linux for your unfortunate knowledge capabilities,

[runningbird]

LOL It wasn't bold of me to state that Linux Mint and Ubuntu were slower than XP, it was simply my experience. As for linux fanatics...errr....hello

[CoolBee]

I'm slightly geeky (let's say - to most people I'm an ubergeek, but to geeks I am as a newborn babe), but I would say stick with Windows if you are not prepared to consult a user manual and rely on phoning up your slightly geeky mate to do everything for you.

One of my friends - an absolutely typically computer-illiterate person such as almost everyone in the known universe is
(you know, the type who take their computers to well know pc superstores to have a virus scan and don't understand the simplest thing like how their 60-day free trial of MS Office actually stops functioning if you don't pay and who can't figure out how to change a printer ink and who don't know the difference between Windows and Word - ask em most normal people don't!)
- had Linux (Ubuntu) installed on her computer by a (now-ex) geeky mate and was forever doing my head in phoning me up to ask me how to do anything (install Yahoo Messenger, Install Windows LIve, run Skype. Why don't my headphones work? Why can't my friend hear me talking? Why can't I find this file I downloaded off this email my friend sent me.... etc etc - aargh).

If she ever tried to google anything to attempt to fix it herself, there were always
'special instructions' for Linux users that she couldn't understand past the first line.

I could never explain to her over the phone, had to trek over to hers, climb to the nth storey of her building where she lives, and it always seems to involve fiddling with paths somewhere and ts really hard to find anything in the file structure.

People sent her emails with things on that wouldn't open - she didn't care what the OS is as long as it just works without thinking like Windows does.

As for crashing, Linux crashes CONSTANTLY out here, every time it gets a bit warm (and today it was 42C 110F) and won't reboot for an hour or more. Linux-runners seem to have to keep a fan or 3 pointed at their 'puter 24/7 right through May - October because the internals don't cut it.

I finally persuaded her to invest in a Windows lappie and it works like a dream and my blood pressure is not tested on a thrice-weekly basis (I'm not patient when it comes to computer users and personally think a compulsory test like a driving licence should be issued before you are allowed one).

I personally am using an Acer Aspire One with Windows XP. It's crashed about 3 times in 10 months and the two most serious crashes were related to some Internet Explorer update.

[runningbird]

you know, the type who take their computers to well know pc superstores to have a virus scan and don't understand the simplest thing like how their 60-day free trial of MS Office actually stops functioning if you don't pay and who can't figure out how to change a printer ink and who don't know the difference between Windows and Word - ask em most normal people don't!

Hehe, this made me chuckle. My boss used to ask me things like "Are you any good at Microsoft?" (when she would mean MS Word or something)

Still, I think what I need to do is get Windows back one way or another.

[tomtyi]

hi runningbird!
what specs has your pc? ram, processor.
and what progs do you use on window$? fw av antispy etc

and i think there is nothing about happy that people take Window$ to Word. It is fairly SAD thing.

[CoolBee]

Originally Posted by tomtyi

hi runningbird!
what specs has your pc? ram, processor.
and what progs do you use on window$? fw av antispy etc

and i think there is nothing about happy that people take Window$ to Word. It is fairly SAD thing.

I agree its sad but I regret to inform that it is the level of understanding of the majority of computer users IMHE (in my humble experience).

[tomtyi]

Originally Posted by CoolBee

I agree its sad but I regret to inform that it is the level of understanding of the majority of computer users IMHE (in my humble experience).

but it is 'cos of M$ and Window$. M$ said you do not have to understand the OS, the pc or anything else. you just have to use it. and if someone with that approach started the experience in it-world s/he has had the habits that do not have to THINK. so s/he does not think.
but if someone first of all meet Linux and does not meet Window$ s/he would use Linux, and could not use Window$.
so all of this does not come from using Linux to be difficult but the history of it.

[CoolBee]

Originally Posted by tomtyi

but it is 'cos of M$ and Window$. M$ said you do not have to understand the OS, the pc or anything else. you just have to use it. and if someone with that approach started the experience in it-world s/he has had the habits that do not have to THINK. so s/he does not think.
but if someone first of all meet Linux and does not meet Window$ s/he would use Linux, and could not use Window$.
so all of this does not come from using Linux to be difficult but the history of it.

I see your point.

But if Linux wants to be accepted then it needs to work without the user ever needing to know anything about a path or a root! People don't want to learn how to do all that stuff just use the machine.

I don't expect to have to learn how to programme the guts of a microwave oven to use one, I just want to chuck my pasta in there, press the button for 5 minutes and scoff my dinner a few minutes later!

If you could buy a linux pc and use all your communications aps, photos and music with complete ease, go to the download websites and just download them without worrying (have the installation process detect the operating system so the poor 'normal' doesn't have to worry if her operating system is Word or Internet Explorer or Windows ! - ps I know the first 2 aren't OS - a lot of people don't - just clarifying if you just jumped in to this post here!), share stuff with all your Windows mates without worrying, then great - I'll buy one, but it doesn't work like that!

[tomtyi]

The Linux started to go that way! So be patient!
After I installed Ubuntu I had not got any problem about the laptop. Only the webcam after a kernelupdate. But it is the problem of lack of the drivers (but there is strong development). but this is not the problem of Linux but the producers of the hw-s. they have to make driver. it is a vicious circle: they do not write driver 'cos the few number of Linux user, but you do not use Linux 'cos of lack of the drivers. and the people think the use of pc similar to the use of the tv set: just turn off and works. but it is not. it rather resembles to the car: you (or some stuff)have to repair it sometimes, you have to load fuel, you have to use the wheel to controll it, and first of all you have to get licence to drive it. you have to LEaRN to use it.

[runningbird]

Dell Latitude C640 Notebook 1.8ghz Pentium 4, 512mb Ram, 40gb Hard Drive, Cd-rw Drive. Even if there is a linux version that would work well with my system, I would rather not deal with all of the rough edges. I'm sticking with what I have until I get Windows back.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by runningbird

I'm sticking with what I have until I get Windows back.

In that case, why start this topic anyway?

[tomtyi]

ok! goodbye!