windows or mac ?

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Niki

That is not really true. PC's used to cost a lot more then they now cost, and it was so good that they sold more and more. Once the sales where big enough, they started to compete on price, that's why PC's are potentially cheap now.

No, PCs are cheap because the market decided that the most important thing about a PC was its price tag. Big corporations (concerned with the expense of buying a computer for all their employees) set the tone, consumers followed suit.

Apple chose not to compete in this area. They decided that the consumer experience was more important than having the smallest price tag.

I need to pay 80euro for 1GB of ram extra. When I go to pc webshop I pay 26euro for the same 1GB of ram, with the same specifications. There is only one explanation for that, and it ain't a matter of quality...

That's because you are not paying for just the RAM. You are paying to have someone in Apple's Cork, Ireland facility unpack the box that came from the factory in China, unwrap your iMac, install the RAM, rewrap the iMac and then carefully pack the box again. In other words, the price difference is in the labor. Labor is expensive here in Europe.

But the good news is that you don't have to let the Apple guy install the memory. You could just order the 1GB DIMMs for 26 euros and install it yourself.

[Niki]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

No, PCs are cheap because the market decided that the most important thing about a PC was its price tag. Big corporations (concerned with the expense of buying a computer for all their employees) set the tone, consumers followed suit.

Apple chose not to compete in this area. They decided that the consumer experience was more important than having the smallest price tag.



That's because you are not paying for just the RAM. You are paying to have someone in Apple's Cork, Ireland facility unpack the box that came from the factory in China, unwrap your iMac, install the RAM, rewrap the iMac and then carefully pack the box again. In other words, the price difference is in the labor. Labor is expensive here in Europe.

But the good news is that you don't have to let the Apple guy install the memory. You could just order the 1GB DIMMs for 26 euros and install it yourself.

They didn't decide to not compete on price because they care more about user experience (look at the iPhone troubles, MacOSX Bugs, etc). They did it because they can. They have no direct mac competition, and they overprice their stuff. If you can't see that, you are blinded by their smart marketing and the cult of followers. You probably have the feeling of buyin smarter, while giving more money to less value. I don't say Mac stuff is that bad, but I do say it's overpirced. It's the typical flamewar, I know it, but truth hurts sometimes.
They invest a lot of money in commercials with direct assaults againts Microsoft, and that while they can't get their own stuff right. I really feel sorry for people who can't see trough the marketing and hype apple is all about.


About the price

Let's compare it with the cheapest dell which is 510 euro here, it allready has 2GB of ram, and it costs another 30 euro to let the dell guy put 1GB extra in it.

PS: I run Vista Ultimate on a 1000 euro's Quad core machine with 6Gb's of ram and two 22Inch flatscreens. Vista runs flawlessly, and believe it or not. It just works..

PS, last night I switched to Linux for, a night. It's just not that good. I'm back 100% Vista now.

[RTF671]

Niki, I am curious of the specs of your machine.

[Niki]

Intel Quad core Q6700 (4x2.66Ghz)
Asus P5N32-E SLI motherbord
Asus Nvidia 9600GT Graphics card
6Gb of ram
2xSamsung Syncmaster 206BW

I have to admit, I assembled it myself.

Need to know more ?

[stellasky]

Originally Posted by Orange

I'm soon to get a mac although i havnt used them much. I need one to use a recording program called logic studio that you cant get on windows. I love the look of macs and i have an ipod and that to me is just the perfect msuic player.. but yeah i actuly dont know much else about macs... What are the advantages it has to windows? Will i find myself still useing my P.C for everything but recording?
thanks.

Back in the day my first laptop was an IBM Thinkpad (notebook) and back in that same day, Logic was a windows only run music program. My PC couldn't handle the program so I shopped around and found that only an apple notebook (on the lower priced end) had enough power to handle any music program.
Since PC notebooks have gotten superior and some can do more for your money.

I resisted my G4 powerbook for a while until I finally settled down to "getting it". Dealing with Apple care and the geniuses at the apple store can be frustrating but I stuck it out.

In 2005 Apple bought Logic, I took Apples' Logic course and found the difference between using "Logic for windows only" versus when it became apple owned was huge....more intuitive, not so intimidating for a beginner music producing dabbler, and it went well with the intuitiveness of the Apple computer.

Since, its been over 8 years, I still use my old Macs, a 15 Titanium Powerbook and a 12 inch aluminum Powerbook (bought used for $500). I need a faster computer and would love to get a Mac Book Pro (intel chip/windows) but I would never think of going back to a PC, I'm used to it and love it.
I use Pro Tools, Reason & Garage Band for music production, Final Cut Pro for video editing, as well as for graphics and in live performance. I've never gotten a virus. The old powerbooks have a very sensitive AC adapter plug which can get worn out with time. The new ones have fixed this problem. The Macs are sensitive, I've dropped my twice, which can be expensive to fix when the warranty is over. But they do somehow survive with homemade fixes.

There are people out there that'll fix your Mac for less than Apple does. PowerBook Guy makes a living fixing old macs, refurbishing and selling discontinued mac items in San Francisco.

When it crashed it was usually due to needing more memory and RAM because of editing video.
I upgraded it, it improved. So when you get a Mac, get alot of memory and Ram and hard disc space, cause you'll need it.

It was frustrating at first, getting involved in the monopoly of apple, the compatibility issues, getting programs etc. But that's all changing.

Now, a PC just perplexes me, seems too complicated.
For a creative person a Mac feels better leaving the focus on creating, not figuring out what your computer is doing.

So, once I went Mac, I never went back.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Niki

They didn't decide to not compete on price because they care more about user experience (look at the iPhone troubles, MacOSX Bugs, etc). They did it because they can.

Fine, if you want to believe that all Apple cares about is ripping of their customers, you go right ahead.

I don't say Mac stuff is that bad, but I do say it's overpirced.

That is your opinion, not a fact.

It's the typical flamewar, I know it, but truth hurts sometimes.

The thing about flamewars is that they are hardly ever about truth. You've judged a book by its cover and then proceeded to call everybody who has actually read it an ignorant fool.

How is that helping Orange in making an informed decision about which platform to buy? Isn't that why we are having this discussion in the first place?

I really feel sorry for people who can't see trough the marketing and hype apple is all about.

Funny, I have the same feeling...

When I was telling you that I use Macs (and an iPhone and an iPod) because of the better user experience, I wasn't just making stuff up. I really did buy the things because I like the user experience of OS X more than Windows and the same goes for all my friends who made the switch.

Here's the thing, though: computers are just tools. Don't just buy a tool because everyone else is using it, buy the one that inspires you to do your greatest work. If that's a Mac, buy a Mac. If it is a PC, buy a PC. Both can get the job done.

[Niki]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Here's the thing, though: computers are just tools. Don't just buy a tool because everyone else is using it, buy the one that inspires you to do your greatest work. If that's a Mac, buy a Mac. If it is a PC, buy a PC. Both can get the job done.

Correct. Glad we both are happy!

[DummyChef]

you can always use mac for any image editing. i'm a web developer, most of my work come from mac

[Angela]

This morning I made a little workout video on iMovie -- I used my Flip Video to tape a session with my trainer, imported it to iMovie, added credits (Angela played by Angela, Dan played by Dan), and added voiceover instructions and background music (Gnarls Barkley's Charity Case, since he didn't charge me). Edited out the extraneous junky stuff. I even have little transitions between the exercises -- you know, one scene fades to the next looking like a page curling or a crossfade. Now I've got this cool little 7-minute guide to take with me to the gym to make sure I don't forget an exercise or use bad form. Yay! So much fun.

Very easy to do this on a Mac!

[Vdesign]

I like both mac and pc and use them for different things. I like macs better for designing and i like pc's better for everything else.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Angela

This morning I made a little workout video on iMovie -- I used my Flip Video to tape a session with my trainer, imported it to iMovie, added credits (Angela played by Angela, Dan played by Dan), and added voiceover instructions and background music (Gnarls Barkley's Charity Case, since he didn't charge me). Edited out the extraneous junky stuff. I even have little transitions between the exercises -- you know, one scene fades to the next looking like a page curling or a crossfade. Now I've got this cool little 7-minute guide to take with me to the gym to make sure I don't forget an exercise or use bad form. Yay! So much fun.

Very easy to do this on a Mac!

So,where and when may we see this video? <Grin>

[Niki]

Originally Posted by Angela

This morning I made a little workout video on iMovie -- I used my Flip Video to tape a session with my trainer, imported it to iMovie, added credits (Angela played by Angela, Dan played by Dan), and added voiceover instructions and background music (Gnarls Barkley's Charity Case, since he didn't charge me). Edited out the extraneous junky stuff. I even have little transitions between the exercises -- you know, one scene fades to the next looking like a page curling or a crossfade. Now I've got this cool little 7-minute guide to take with me to the gym to make sure I don't forget an exercise or use bad form. Yay! So much fun.

Very easy to do this on a Mac!

That is something like Windows Movie maker I guess. My father uses Windows Movie maker to edit travel video's.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Gene

So,where and when may we see this video? <Grin>

This one's meant as a personal training video just for me as I move through my workout -- like a reminder checklist, only with a hot guy telling me what to do. Now that you mention it, with a little more explanation, it would make a great little video for others, too!

Next time I'll put it together for the public, thanks for the idea. This program is very easy and fun to use.

[RTF671]

Originally Posted by Niki

That is something like Windows Movie maker I guess. My father uses Windows Movie maker to edit travel video's.

It works but it Apple's is easier to use.

[Niki]

Originally Posted by RTF671

It works but it Apple's is easier to use.

What is easier about it then?

[RTF671]

Its features do the same thing but are more efficient and just easier.

For example to make a slideshow with mac you just need to pick out the pictures and the music. The software will allot the time per picture and transitions.
WMM will make you pick the pictures, allot the time, crop, etc. Its counter-intuitive and counter-productive.

[Niki]

Originally Posted by RTF671

Its features do the same thing but are more efficient and just easier.

For example to make a slideshow with mac you just need to pick out the pictures and the music. The software will allot the time per picture and transitions.
WMM will make you pick the pictures, allot the time, crop, etc. Its counter-intuitive and counter-productive.

To make a slideshow with Windows you don't use "movie" maker, but photostory. You can make a slideshow with movie maker but that is indeed counter productive.

Anything else?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Niki

Anything else?

When I got my new Mac, I put the box down in the middle of the floor, and it hatched out of the box like an egg, the power cord crawled across the floor and plugged itself in, started up, called me by name, told me everything it could do and asked me what I'd like to do first, and then made me breakfast.

I love my Mac.

[Niki]

Originally Posted by Angela

When I got my new Mac, I put the box down in the middle of the floor, and it hatched out of the box like an egg, the power cord crawled across the floor and plugged itself in, started up, called me by name, told me everything it could do and asked me what I'd like to do first, and then made me breakfast.

I love my Mac.

Waw, I'm considering buying a Mac now! lol. No, just kidding, I love my Pc!

[Ravanous]

PC users use their computers

Mac users have sex with their computers.


It's really a question of artsy-ness... do you like smooth frames, extra-smooth curves and animations, and pulsating lights with the social benefit of using an OS that is used by most artists in most genres, or do you like efficiency, customizability, and power for your money's worth? It comes down to that without all of the bias and bull.

I use Windows XP and it's highly customized and super efficient. I'm a game designer, 3d modeler for games and movies (CG), composer of orchestra and metal, web designer, graphic designer, and I used to do a lot of network security. All applications I use are super efficient and gallop like 5,000 horses. I only paid $720 for my computer, no screen.

[Niki]

I'm using KDE4 on OpenSuse for a while now, and I think this one has some Nice curves too. And it's free

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Ravanous

Mac users have sex with their computers.

No way! They do? Yuck!

[funchy]

I've had both. When I was in college for Computer Science it was either PCs or mainframe terminals. When I returned to school for Visual Arts/Graphic Design, it was all Macs.

I can tell you from firsthand experience that BOTH crash. Both do stupid things. Both have eaten my work. Both have network issues if not configured properly or if they don't like something on the network. Both can work right straight out of the box, and both can sometimes break at inopportune times.

I use a PC for two reasons: 10x the amount of software and a far lower price tag for the hardware. Apple still holds a monopoly on their product, and they can charge whatever they want. I like that I can go anywhere to buy a new computer, upgrades, or service.

It used to be Mac was what you had to use if you were into design, art, or music. That's not so much the case anymore. I personally was disappointed in the Mac when I did my art because it's been over hyped. My Macs still had cryptic icons. And I couldn't figure out how to move a file for the life of me!??! I had to copy it to the new location, go back to the old location, delete the old copy, and empty trash can.

It also used to be Macs didn't get viruses or spyware. That's no longer the case.

I am typing to you on a Dell laptop that I am very happy with; it cost all of $400 brand new, full warranty, & Windows XP.

[Ravanous]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

No way! They do? Yuck!

It's kinda true if you think about it. It's like people who are so into cars, when they get one they like, it's this sacred, spiritual artifact of pure perfection... even though it's just a shiney car.

[Lucas]

Might as well throw my 2 cents in to this ridiculous opinion war.

I used XP Pro from about 2000-2005 with multiple computers that I built myself.

I used Ubuntu from 2005-Until the Beginning of this Year.

I have had my own MacBook for the last 3 months, but Had a G4 with OS9.2 on it and ran the OSX Public Beta.

I am very familiar with all 3, and I think they all have their own strengths

Windows - its the standard, and just has it all. Its the guy with all the toys, but because of that, he can pretty much do whatever he wants and everyone has to deal with it. Windows is entropy in action, fragmentation, bloatedness, slowing systems...it happens on Windows whether you wanna admit it or not. You may have decent Vista experience, but there are people in my family and friends who are having serious issues, and they are not PC illiterate either.

Linux - Awesome if everything works out of the box, but when it has issues they can be tough to resolve if you dont know your ****. Luckily the forums are awesome. It is worth it for the agrarian type of software and the lack of serial numbers and all that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ piracy protection that annoys only the paying customers. Very customizable too, if youre into that, which many Linux nerds dont realize that not everyone wants to compile a kernel to their specific processor.

Macs - I committed to my own personal Mac this summer and will never go back. There are many reasons, but here are a few of the reasons reasons I love it.

Simplicity - Not only does doing things on a Mac work with my logic, the Apple designed programs all work similarly, so once you get good at one, you can get good with others overall. The thing oozes productivity once you start using hotkeys, or better yet, Quicksilver.

Stability - I restart my Mac maybe once a month, when I clean it and do a little maintenance on it (10 minutes worth). The memory management is phenomenal. When Spore came out, I ran the game for 3 days straight, and it always awoke from sleep instantly, and I was able to Alt-Tab to the other programs I was running with no lag. Doesnt happen on XP, not 3 days straight, maybe Vista is better?

Cohesiveness - Windows and Linux have to run on anything. Mac OS runs on a certain set of hardware, this way Apple can make the OS run amazingly fast and well. Some people don't like that, which is fine, but I can see the difference between general hardware/os and specific hardware/os...it is readily apparent to me.

As for the price of a Mac, I really dont mind the price, because you get what you pay for. I have a suite of Apps that I use on a regular basis, all from the same company that are integrated into the whole as well as work on an individual level. It is worth it for me. Some people like to tinker and build their boxes and will be content to deal with Windows. I am not, and by Apples consistently rising profit margin and marketshare, I think more and more people are agreeing.

So, the rest of the computing world can argue my purchase if they like, but my decision has been made after years of field testing.

[homephone]

After using window based PC's for 20 years, I'm a Mac convert. Simple to use, compatible with most software programs, and very digital friendly.

I specialize in home technology and write a blog about cost effective approaches to digital communication. I think that the high sticker price for MAC's is well worth it. If you shop around, there are plenty of deals for the the 13" Mac Books for $850 range.