Linux

[ABdude]

Just curious, what would be a good flavor of linux for someone with little more than rudimentary knowledge of the OS. I am looking for a version with the following criteria

• free
• easy to download/burn/set-up
• powerful enough to be used as a server if necessary
• X windows-type interface (e.g. Gnome or KDE)

In the past I have used Red Hat, but its been a few years and since then Red Hat has moved to mostly enterprise.

Suggestions?

[Trustme]

You might want to take a look at Ubuntu. Great community, very helpful to get started.

[Rose of Cairo]

debian

Or ubuntu... I've never tried it, but I've only heard positive comments about it so far. It's said to be easier than debian for people with little computer knowledge.

[ragtag]

I would second Ubuntu. I run it at home, and am pretty happy with it.

I've also used Fedora and CentOS (plus Windows and OSX), but prefer Ubuntu. It has much bigger software repositories, and a very big a helpful community. It's also very easy to install.

[Lucas]

I ran Ubuntu for almost 3 years and I think unless you are a hardcore Linux user, I can't think of a better disto to use. Great support, great community and easy to get running.

[Trezker]

If you need a lot of power for server stuff you probably should dedicate a computer to work only with server stuff. Then a GUI desktop environment would be totally unnecessary.

But if you want to have some server stuff on the same computer that you use mainly as your number one desktop environment. Then I think Ubuntu is the best way to go. I don't know much about other distro's, but Ubuntu is very much geared towards usability. Even though some people claim it has a few quirks, I have not noticed much of it. It still beats windows by miles no matter how I look at it.

I also second Lucas opinion of Ubuntu support. That forum has discussions on almost everything and nearly every thread I've read comes up with the solution to the problem. So whenever you want to find a solution it's a good idea to include "ubuntu" in your google search. When I don't include ubuntu I just get crappy mailinglists that don't contain any answers to anything...

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Gonna have to add my vote for Ubuntu. It is the only distro that I've tried, so I can't give you a comparison. But as someone without a great deal of computer knowledge, it's been really easy for me to work with. They have a server edition as well, but I really don't know much about that. The best thing about Ubuntu in my opinion is that their forums are fantastic. I've gotten answers to every question. People there really know their stuff and will work with you until you get something fixed. I never felt like anyone talked down to me for my noob status either.

Good luck.

Oh, just in case you were wondering, I'm running 8.04 on a Toshiba Satellite laptop and everything just works.

[Niki]

Yes, Ubuntu is powerfull, but also user friendly. If you want to tweak and build your own, try arch linux.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by Trezker

Even though some people claim it has a few quirks, I have not noticed much of it. It still beats windows by miles no matter how I look at it.

Ubuntu is very quirky when it comes to wireless. A great portion of that is due to bad to no driver support.

That and often there are no defined solutions to some problems, often there can be 5 ways to go about fixing things, which can get confusing.

As for Windows, yeah, I agree, but all 3 of the platforms have their pros and cons, one being that commercial software tends to be more refined with regular updates that add polish, functionality and features. The downside is that you pay for it. Give and take, eh?

[ABdude]

Ubuntu it is!

Just to give you guys some of my background. I have a fairly extensive knowledge of windows OS from 98 all the way to XP. I even have the MCP designation for Windows XP and was working my way toward my MCSA, until my current job got me a bit sidetracked.

However when it comes to Linux/Unix I feel like a total newbie. I did take a course in Red Had Linux administration, which focused on command line input, but that was a few years ago, so basically I am starting from scratch.

My plan is to have a dual boot system with Windows XP and Linux. Eventually, I plan to have this computer set up as a server for 1-2 other computers I am currently building. Of course by then I hope to have mastered Linux enough to do away with the X-windows interface and rely solely on command line functions.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by ABdude

Ubuntu it is!

Just to give you guys some of my background. I have a fairly extensive knowledge of windows OS from 98 all the way to XP. I even have the MCP designation for Windows XP and was working my way toward my MCSA, until my current job got me a bit sidetracked.

However when it comes to Linux/Unix I feel like a total newbie. I did take a course in Red Had Linux administration, which focused on command line input, but that was a few years ago, so basically I am starting from scratch.

My plan is to have a dual boot system with Windows XP and Linux. Eventually, I plan to have this computer set up as a server for 1-2 other computers I am currently building. Of course by then I hope to have mastered Linux enough to do away with the X-windows interface and rely solely on command line functions.

I suggest if you can (careerwise) to just jump completely into Linux for at least a month. Though you sound savvy, Linux is a different paradigm. You may break your first few installations (reinstalls take only like 30 min its great), and may want to just reboot into windows. After 3 weeks though, you may not want to leave, especially after you discover apt

[Trezker]

Wireless is quirky on all Linux, that's not an Ubuntu specific quirk. I got mine to work though it was quite a process. I suggest making sure you have a working internet connection on another computer so you can google and research while you're messing around with network problems.

With Ubuntu I have never felt like jumping back to Windows. Since almost everything worked right away and Gnome is just as easy to use as windows.

However a bunch of years ago when I tried Red Hat, it was awful. Back then the usability of Linux was so horrible I just couldn't do anything. But back then I was much more into gaming too, which has also been improved lately. There more games natively though still pretty rare, but also more stuff works through wine.

[BenThere]

I recommend Ubuntu or Mepis.

And I also recommend using them inside a virtual machine. vmware, sun's virtualbox, and Microsoft's Virtual PC and Virtual Server are all free downloads. virtualbox is open source and runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux. vmware provides prebuilt virtual machines you can download including many Linux distributions, already set up for particular tasks.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by BenThere

I recommend Ubuntu or Mepis.

And I also recommend using them inside a virtual machine. vmware, sun's virtualbox, and Microsoft's Virtual PC and Virtual Server are all free downloads. virtualbox is open source and runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux. vmware provides prebuilt virtual machines you can download including many Linux distributions, already set up for particular tasks.

Running Linux on Windows seems like a total contradiction

[BenThere]

Running Linux on Windows seems like a total contradiction

Do you understand what virtual machine technology is?

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by BenThere

Do you understand what virtual machine technology is?

Why don't you explain it to me, so that I am on the same page as you? I think it will save time and keep this from becoming any sort of argument.

[zhango]

Virtual machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My guess is it'll go mainstream in 7 years. Then again, maybe it never will, because as everything moves to the web, underlying OSes will matter less and less.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by zhango

Virtual machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I knew what it was, but I wanted to know his angle so that I could understand where he was coming from. Not everyone is a tech head, and virtualization can cause more problems than installing an OS directly, because of problems direct from say VMWare.

If you are going to learn a new OS, you should dive in head first. When I learned Ubuntu, I installed it and erased my windows drive, that way when problems arised, I would have to face them and fix them, as opposed to crawling back to my Windows partition. Most of the people I know who wanted to learn linux, just ended up with a second partition (or a virtual machine) and never used it.

[ABdude]

So far so good. I had a couple of hiccups installing Ubuntu initially but as of right now I have both linux and XP installed. There is still a lot of basic stuff I have yet to figure out, but at least I have sound and internet access.

[Ceros]

Speaking of linux, I tried switching several times but always went back to Windows.

So far I have yet to understand what the craze is about.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by Ceros

Speaking of linux, I tried switching several times but always went back to Windows.

So far I have yet to understand what the craze is about.

-Many of the mainstream, non-niche apps included at install
-Rock solid stability
-Compiz (not as good as expose and spaces, but better than none)
-Software Repositories
-Not a single annoying software key or "genuine advantage authorization" to bother you (the only thing than hinders is people who have legit copies)
-Free forever
-30-45 minute install/update (my windws disc is from 2000...a full install/update would take 3 hours not including software downloads/installs)
-Totem is my favorite movie player ever
-Non-fragmenting file system
-Too small a marketshare to care about virii or even firewalls
-No registry
-The choice not to use Windows

[Trezker]

Originally Posted by Lucas

-The choice not to use Windows

I second all of Lucas reasons. But mostly this one. I started using Linux because I simply can't tolerate windows anymore.

I'm very glad I did because there's only reasonable annoyances in Linux, I can understand why there are problems and I'm able to work through them. In windows I was never bothered by anything I could sympathize with nor could I truly solve the problems. The registry, weak security, having to prove my innocence over and over...

But I not only got rid of the annoyances, there are awesome features everywhere in Linux. The multiple desktops are awesome for me as a programmer. The wobbly windows and desktop cube makes everything more fun and is actually more of a usability boost than just eye candy. The software repositories as mentioned are an awesome source of good tools. Last but not least, the terminal which has all the basic tools with tons of options.

[BenThere]

Here's what I mean by virtualization:

The use of a software application inside a host operating system - which has drivers to communicate directly with the hardware - in order to trick another, guest operating system into believing it is running on its own machine.

Advantages:
1. As I mentioned, prebuilt virtual machine packages, with applications, services, user accounts, files, directories, etc. already completely set up for many purposes.
2. Guest OS does not need to have drivers for your particular hardware. XP and OSX are already excellent about providing drivers for a huge range of hardware.
3. Host OS continues to work the same as always. Nothing about the Guest OS can blow up the whole system (unless you share the entire Host OS drive with the guest).
4. Guest can be instantly backed up/restored, so it's safe to tinker, explore, and blow it up.
5. Virtualization technology is already very important in high tech business, and will be arriving in the mainstream in a few years. If you want to learn more about computer science, why not get familiar with it now?

These advantages might be useless to you, but I think it's worth while to make an informed decision.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by BenThere

Here's what I mean by virtualization:

The use of a software application inside a host operating system - which has drivers to communicate directly with the hardware - in order to trick another, guest operating system into believing it is running on its own machine.

Advantages:
1. As I mentioned, prebuilt virtual machine packages, with applications, services, user accounts, files, directories, etc. already completely set up for many purposes.
2. Guest OS does not need to have drivers for your particular hardware. XP and OSX are already excellent about providing drivers for a huge range of hardware.
3. Host OS continues to work the same as always. Nothing about the Guest OS can blow up the whole system (unless you share the entire Host OS drive with the guest).
4. Guest can be instantly backed up/restored, so it's safe to tinker, explore, and blow it up.
5. Virtualization technology is already very important in high tech business, and will be arriving in the mainstream in a few years. If you want to learn more about computer science, why not get familiar with it now?

These advantages might be useless to you, but I think it's worth while to make an informed decision.

I completely agree that it can be great to make an informed decision, but what if you know nothing about Virtualization? Then you have to learn a sebset of technology just to make the decision, which will more than likely affect the decision.


I guess it does make sense in a CS realm, but if you are looking for another OS...I say jump in.

[Niki]

Originally Posted by Lucas

-Compiz (not as good as expose and spaces, but better than none)

-Too small a marketshare to care about virii or even firewalls.

I like your reasons, just wanted to point out that compiz-fusion has far more options then expose and spaces. It is the best eye candy, and the best productivity a window manager has to offer

It's true you don't have to care about virusses, but firewalls is another thing. It is a good thing to have a firewall, because if "hackers" scan networks they don't always care what OS you are using, they just scan it with a modern scanner, and get a report of what computers are vulnerable, what ports are open and what the exploits are. But it's easy to install a firewall under ubuntu, just follow https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/keeping.../firewall.html

If you are behind a home router/firewall or smth, the firewall becomes less important.

[BenThere]

what if you know nothing about Virtualization?

What do you do about anything you haven't learned about yet?

In that case, you can get introduced to the concept on threads like this one. And you can search on Google for keywords like VirtualBox, VMWare, VirtualPC, Virtualization, Parallels, and Fusion, and learn more.

The principles are a 90% match across virtualization software. The remaining 10% doesn't affect someone personally tinkering with Linux. (It has to do with management of multiple virtual machines in a business network.) Look at the list I provided of the benefits of virtualization. They're either useful for you, or they're not.

Virtualization software is easy to use. If you already know how to use computers in general, you can go through step by step directions in a few minutes. Virtualization software is an amazing engineering challenge to create, but straightforward to use. It's far easier to download and run, say VMWare and a prebuilt Linux image, than it is to reformat your system and find the right drivers, or to dual boot.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by Niki

I like your reasons, just wanted to point out that compiz-fusion has far more options then expose and spaces. It is the best eye candy, and the best productivity a window manager has to offer

You're right, but after using both, I prefer Expose and Spaces. Theres such thing as too many options (which is why I don't compile my own distros) and I remember when trying get Compiz right, I would get so frustrated because I wasn't sure what an option was called or where it was located in the control panel.

Too fiddly!

Still, its awesome that it's there, included at default, with the option to turn it off, and it has all those options. Thats awesome.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by BenThere

What do you do about anything you haven't learned about yet?

In that case, you can get introduced to the concept on threads like this one. And you can search on Google for keywords like VirtualBox, VMWare, VirtualPC, Virtualization, Parallels, and Fusion, and learn more.

The principles are a 90% match across virtualization software. The remaining 10% doesn't affect someone personally tinkering with Linux. (It has to do with management of multiple virtual machines in a business network.) Look at the list I provided of the benefits of virtualization. They're either useful for you, or they're not.

Virtualization software is easy to use. If you already know how to use computers in general, you can go through step by step directions in a few minutes. Virtualization software is an amazing engineering challenge to create, but straightforward to use. It's far easier to download and run, say VMWare and a prebuilt Linux image, than it is to reformat your system and find the right drivers, or to dual boot.

Thanks, but I don't want to learn about virtualization, tinkering with OSes is not one of my goals. If I want to learn about an OS, I will install and use that OS. I feel like virtualization is just an unneeded layer. I can see the appeal to some though.

[BenThere]

tinkering with OSes is not one of my goals

This in a thread about linux???

So anyway, did you try other distros before you became an Ubuntu fan?

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by BenThere

This in a thread about linux???

So anyway, did you try other distros before you became an Ubuntu fan?

It was at one point, which is why I was using linux from 2005-May

I tried Red Hat, Mandrake and Mepis before Ubuntu,