dvorak keyboard layout to learn touch typing

[Abhey]

Has anybody else tried switching to the dvorak keyboard layout in order to learn how to touch type/more efficiently type? How long did it take you to switch and feel comfortable? Was it worth it?
thanks
Abhey

[Nico Kempe]

I haven't tried dvorak, but I can give you one advise on learning to touch-type: paint your whole keyboard black.
I saw this keyboard on Thinkgeek one time, and totally fell in love with it.
But, not allowing to spend 80 bucks on "a" keyboard, I went for the poor-mans solution: I spray-painted the whole thing black.

I learned to touch-type within two weeks.

To me, having a blank keyboard is the best way to learn to touch-type, and it looks really cool too

About the dvorak thing, yes it would be more efficient, but I imagine it would be nasty if you need to use qwerty boards often, switching back and forth could be a real pain in the [...], but then, I may be wrong about that.

=====edit

by the way, I believe dvorak was designed mainly for typing machines, so you use the stronger fingers for the most used keys. Nowadays however, we have keyboards with keys that hardly require any strenth in the fingers, and the keyboard I linked to above has weighted keys depending on the individual finger, so if it's about strength, qwerty is hardly a problem anymore.
Ofcourse dvorak is about more than that, but just so you know..)

[DataWraith]

Hi.

I tried switching to the dvorak layout about a year ago, but abandoned the effort. The undisputed advantage of the Dvorak Simplified Keyboard is of course the speed and comfort of typing, since you don't have to move your fingers as far/often as with QWERTY (which was designed with the keys far apart to prevent jamming of older typewriters), but you probably already knew that.

The real show stopper for me was to re-learn. I've been touch typing for... oh, almost 8 years now (I'm 21), so it was almost impossible to re-wire my muscle-memory to hit the right keys.
Using the layout wasn't all that important to me, because I'm a fast typist already, and when I considered the other difficulties involved (mentally switching between the two layouts, switching the layout on the machines I use - not as trivial as it sounds, finding a way to type German umlauts) I decided it was not worth it.

However, I've read accounts from people who actually made the switch and pretty much all of them are pleased; they usually retain their ability to type in QWERTY, although IIRC at slightly slower pace.

Heh. I guess what I wanted to say is that you'll have to try out for yourself, because it's probably different for everyone.

Edit: Sorry, I misread your initial question. If you don't know how to touch type yet, learning to do so definitively pays off, and allegedly it is easier to learn Dvorak than QWERTY. However, the other criticisms are still valid; to get a better picture you might want to have a look at the material linked at the end of the Wikipedia article.

[Daniel Terhorst]

As a matter of fact, I'm typing in Dvorak right now. I use Dvorak on my computers at home and QWERTY at work.

Overall, I would say it has not been worth it to learn Dvorak. Now, I can type in either one more quickly and accurately than a lot of people can claim. However, I can't type in either one as quickly or accurately as I used to type in QWERTY alone before. In time, I might eventually reach that level in both, but... will it have been worth it? It's worth it to me to continue with both now that I've made it through the most difficult part, but I don't know that I would have made the same decision if I had known what I know now--not knowing was probably the biggest factor in deciding to do it.

A bit about my experiences:

If you're going to make the switch, make sure you have a good chunk of time set aside where you won't have type anything critically important. At least a week. I found that when I first started training my body to type in Dvorak that it confused my ability to type in QWERTY. Typing at all became even more frustrating than trying to use the mouse with your off hand (which I can also do decently now). By the time I had taught myself to type decently in Dvorak, I couldn't type in QWERTY to save my life.

I found it was really inconvenient to change the keyboard settings on every single computer I used. It's also very impractical to, say, pair-program with a QWERTY user on the same machine. One or the other is always forgetting to press the shortcut to switch formats before they begin typing. Annoying.

It only took a week to learn Dvorak... But I spent the next month or two learning how to comfortably use both!

If you want performance, my suggestion is to pick one or the other and stick with it. You can type quite well in either, really.

Dvorak is a little bit easier on the hands--and kind of fun.
QWERTY is everywhere!

I found this site helpful:
ABCD: A Basic Course in Dvorak

-- Daniel Terhorst

[magnethy]

A few years ago I switched to dvorak. It was mostly because I wanted to try something new. I never made an effort to write qwerty / touch efficiently, so I wrote rather fast, but "wrong" (using only 1-2 fingers on each hand).

When I switched it took me about 3 weeks or so before I felt rather comfortable using dvorak. I still couldn't write nearly as fast as I used to write with qwerty, but it was at least improving. I'll say it took me 2-3 months before I could write naturally in dvorak. As others have commented, it totally screwed my qwerty-skills. I had just started in a new job, and the others working there probably weren't impressed by me not being able to write on a keyboard

However; I spend a lot of energy writing dvorak correctly, using the right finger at a given key. Later, when I got used to qwerty again, I found this had helped me write qwerty more "correct" also!

I now can write fast using both keyboard layouts without any problems. It's like switching your brain over to either of them. Personally I haven't used dvorak for a while, but I can still imaginge the layout in front of me when typing. I really prefer dvorak, but it's a bit too much work changing short keys in programs, etc.. So I'm sticking to qwerty for this reason.

[someone]

I was never able to touch type in qwerty, but I still had an above average typing speed. I switched to dvorak during this summer('06), and it took me 2-4 days to memorize where the keys are so I could type, albeit really slowly. After 1-2 months of dvorak, I was able to touch type at almost the same speed as qwerty. Then I started school again and realized that I could barely type in qwerty.

Now, after a couple of months of using qwerty in school, I can touch type really fast in dvorak, and I have an average speed in qwerty (not touch typing). The downside is that I occasionally forget which layout I'm using, and some keyboard shortcuts are more inconvenient in dvorak(i.e., Ctrl-Z, X, V) . Overall, I think it's worth it, considering my fast dvorak speed and that it's better for your wrists. I consider the fact that other people can't type on my computer an extra security feature .

[Keith]

My personal experience:
I converted from QWERTY to Dvorak years ago when I got RSI in my wrists and forearms. It took about one (really irritating) month to convert, during which time my typing speed was useless. I'd hoped for a speed (ie. efficiency) increase, but that never happened; I still type about the same rate I did with QWERTY. However the RSI symptoms decreased dramatically.

I was disappointed to find (contrary to what I'd read) that I lost the ability to touch-type QWERTY.

Was it worth it? As compared to QWERTY: Yes. As compared to "hunt-n-peck", I don't know. Since "hunt-n-peck" basically types with elbows rather than wrists, it may be more ergonomic than either QWERTY or Dvorak.

A caveat: I only really use two keyboards: one at work and one at home. If you need to hop between several PCs (or share your PC with someone else), using Dvorak could be annoying.

[Brutha]

I saw this keyboard on Thinkgeek one time, and totally fell in love with it.
But, not allowing to spend 80 bucks on "a" keyboard, I went for the poor-mans solution: I spray-painted the whole thing black.

I have switched the keys of the keyboard in a random manner to achieve a similar effect.

Using my keyboard gave some family members problems, but it did a great job with learning to touchtype.

[Caveman Joe]

Just to complicate things further, I'm now typing on a QWERTY keyboard converted to DVORAK (by popping the keys off with a screwdriver, natch - no way I'm paying eighty quid for a keyboard), in QWERTY.
I've been able to touch-type in QWERTY for about ten years, so I no longer need the keys in front of me to be visible - and I find I can type nearly as fast in DVORAK if I can see the keys. I'm gradually making the shift over, and I can say that DVORAK does feel a lot more comfortable - and makes a lot more sense, too.

I have a freeware application that will switch between QWERTY and DVORAK layouts in Windows using the Scroll Lock key, which is very useful. It's about 40kb, and will run from a Flash drive. The Scroll Lock lamp on the keyboard responds as normal too, so you can tell with a glance at your keyboard which mode it's in. I'd give a link, but the site where I found it has gone mysteriously offline - but if anyone wants it, PM me and I can E-mail it over (given that it's free, I doubt the creator would mind).

[Abhey]

I'm going to keep on experimenting with the dvorak layout. It's starting to make sense, now i just wish fingerworks still made their keyboard.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Caveman Joe

Just to complicate things further, I'm now typing on a QWERTY keyboard converted to DVORAK (by popping the keys off with a screwdriver, natch - no way I'm paying eighty quid for a keyboard)

Personally, I found learning Dvorak on a keyboard marked with QWERTY to be a blessing. It forced me to not look at the keys while I was learning.

Originally Posted by Caveman Joe

I have a freeware application that will switch between QWERTY and DVORAK layouts in Windows using the Scroll Lock key, which is very useful.

You can configure Windows to toggle layouts with a keypress too (LeftCtrl+LeftShift+LeftAlt, IIRC). This works in XP and IIRC it worked in Win98SE too.

[Caveman Joe]

Aye, but the problem with the Windows shortcut is that it's application-sensitive. That can be a real bitch when you change from one application to another and find your keyboard layout all screwed up.

[climbmore]

Caveman,
I've been learning to type on the Dvorak keyboard. Is it possible for you to send me that freeware that lets me switch from querty and back? My problem is that on the public computers at school I don't have access at a level that lets me switch.
Thanks,
Ross Fazio
rossfazio@hocmail.com

Originally Posted by Caveman Joe

Just to complicate things further, I'm now typing on a QWERTY keyboard converted to DVORAK (by popping the keys off with a screwdriver, natch - no way I'm paying eighty quid for a keyboard), in QWERTY.
I've been able to touch-type in QWERTY for about ten years, so I no longer need the keys in front of me to be visible - and I find I can type nearly as fast in DVORAK if I can see the keys. I'm gradually making the shift over, and I can say that DVORAK does feel a lot more comfortable - and makes a lot more sense, too.

I have a freeware application that will switch between QWERTY and DVORAK layouts in Windows using the Scroll Lock key, which is very useful. It's about 40kb, and will run from a Flash drive. The Scroll Lock lamp on the keyboard responds as normal too, so you can tell with a glance at your keyboard which mode it's in. I'd give a link, but the site where I found it has gone mysteriously offline - but if anyone wants it, PM me and I can E-mail it over (given that it's free, I doubt the creator would mind).

[Caveman Joe]

AHA - found it!

http://dvzine.org/type/m$.html

Get the file called layout.zip by choosing "download locally from our server." Then, basically, your Scroll Lock light on your keyboard (you know, the one that nobody ever uses) becomes the Qwerty light instead.

[ericwmontgomery]

Just to throw in my two cents... Just before I switched to dvorak I was beginning to have soreness in my wrists when I spent extended periods of time on the computer. After switching to dvorak I haven't had any more problems, so that's a plus.

Honestly I think I'm probably about 10 wpm slowing in dvorak than I was when I was exclusively using qwerty, but I can handle losing 10 wpm. I find typing in dvorak a little more enjoyable/comfortable, so the decrease in speed is worth it to me. From what I've read, my drop in speed is atypical, so don't let that scare you.

When I made the switch, I actually had two computers side by side on my desk, one I set to dvorak and one I left on qwerty, and as a result I've retained my ability to type qwerty without much problem. The interesting thing is, though, that I touch-type dvorak; with qwerty, I absolutely must be looking at the keys or I cannot type with it at all. As long as I'm looking, I can type regular speed, but the second I look away it starts to break down.

I would strongly recommend not relabeling your keys for dvorak; the way I type in dvorak now is heavily influenced by the fact that I had to learn the keys in relation to the home row (in contrast to my qwerty hunt-and-peck style), and I think it's much better and a direct result of not relabeling the keys.

Would I reccommend dvorak to others? Only if you're getting RSI symptoms and you have a few weeks where you won't have too much time-critical typing to do. It takes a lot of commitment to go through that pain period where you feel like you can't get anything finished because you're typing so slowly, but for some people it may be worth it.

[Rivelli]

Originally Posted by Nico Kempe

I haven't tried dvorak, but I can give you one advise on learning to touch-type: paint your whole keyboard black.
I saw this keyboard on Thinkgeek one time, and totally fell in love with it.
But, not allowing to spend 80 bucks on "a" keyboard, I went for the poor-mans solution: I spray-painted the whole thing black.

I did get the keyboard. Not for the blankness thing, but for the feel of the clicky keys like the old school IBM Modem M. It is the best keyboard I have ever had, and I have had a lot of them. Putting 80 bucks is a good investment if you are on the computer any good amount of time. It's not like your shelling out that every day, the keyboard will last a long time if not abused.

[Tasaio]

I switched about a year ago. I can definately recommend Dvorak.

For initial learning, pop off your keyboard keys with a screwdriver and put them into the Dvorak layout.

This way, you can still hunt and peck when you need to.

When you've suffiently mastered Dvorak (probably after two months), switch back to the Qwerty layout. This will force you to memorize.

Note that some games (like NWN2) allow for the Dvorak layout when entering text, but rely on the Qwerty layout for keyboard shortcuts.