Does anyone know c-sharp?

[Dan.Linehan]

Are there any C-Sharp programmers on the forum?

You don't have to be expert level, I just have a couple questions for someone with a little basic familiarity.

[Mark Lapierre]

Yup. Fire away. (and it's good that you don't need an expert, because I am not one )

[Dan.Linehan]

Sweet.

Well, I got the gauntlet thrown at me at work this week, and need to learn C# over the next few months.

This is my first Microsoft language and I need a jumping off point so to speak.

What advice would you give a total beginner? What pitfalls have you encountered, if any? The application I'm working on will be a straightforward "profile" type website. Imagine a really simple dating site, where you fill out a form to create a profile.

[YazKMan]

That depends. What kind of experience in software development do you have?

[Dan.Linehan]

I know some basic php and mysql. Thats about it.

[ixmatus]

They won't let you use ASP.NET instead? I think that is much more like PHP than C#...

C# isn't bad per-se, but, compiling each change seems like such a headache for web development!

[Mark Lapierre]

ixmatus: I'd assume that since it's a web application Dan will be using ASP.NET, implemented in C#. ASP.NET is the part of the .NET framework which allows web development. C# is one of the languages you can use in any development environment covered by the framework (web, windows, mobile). So using ASP.NET still might involve using C#, and still requires compilation. Perhaps you meant ASP? (which, if you did, I'd like to hurt you so you can experience some of the pain I went through in using it. I wouldn't wish ASP on my worst enemy ...(in case it's not clear, I'm joking about the hurting ) But seriously, if there's any choice at all between ASP and other languages, go with the other. Unless it's Basic.)

The issues that I had have mainly been figuring out which control to use to do what I want (and how). I've found web development in C# to not be as straight-forward as PHP. Mind you my approach was to try to figure out how to use some of the more complex controls (The wizard control, or the ATLAS toolkit. A control is basically a collection of code which performs a specific function, like a textbox, or a menu, encapsulated in a single unit) to implement desired functionality. I often ended up nailing stuff with a sledgehammer. So I'd suggest looking for the simplest way to implement any functionality, even if something else looks more appealing.

I also often had requirements to which some controls were suited, but the requirements stretched the functionality of the control beyond what it was designed for, and I didn't have the skill to extend that functionality effectively. The results were a little patchy for a while. I don't think that'd be an issue for a 'profile' type website. The most complex part would probably be the logon functionality, and there's controls which cover that for you.

Of course all of that comes after you come to grips with the basics of code-behind vs. inline code vs. declarative code. That's covered in tutorials all over the place.

And I hope your boss is prepared to give you adequate time to learn. It's not a complex language, but the .NET framework is powerful and complex, and it's easy to get lost in it. I strongly suggest doing the opposite to what I did. Take your time to understand the foundations of the .NET framework as a whole (not just the C# language) before you try to do anything fancy with it.

[ixmatus]

Kudos to a good answer!

A thought though: I thought that there were two major versions of ASP; one which is a dinosaur and certainly ugly to look at, and, another that was pretty much re-written from the ground up.

I know what the .NET framework is, and that there are multiple language one can use; but I was under the impression they had a specific ASP.NET web development scripting language meant to compete with PHP (it uses the .aspx extension?).

[Mark Lapierre]

Yeah ASP.NET is associated with the .aspx extension, but it is compiled. It doesn't really matter though because compilation can be done on the fly so it's fairly transparent. For example, if you make changes to the source code, then access the web site through a browser, the relevant portion of your code can automatically be recompiled (and is by default. I'm pretty sure you can disable that function). So it looks like it's scripted (except for a short delay the first time the page loads).

Hmm, unless there have been some developments in the last year to create a version of ASP.NET that isn't compiled (I haven't done any web development in about a year)... I don't see the point though. Everything is built around the .NET framework and the CLR.

So as far as I'm aware you're right about everything, except that ASP.NET is scripted.

[ixmatus]

Much thanks for the correction m8. Cheers!

[YazKMan]

First thing you're going to want to do is download the Visual Web Developer Express Edition if you don't have Visual Studio 2005.

Then bookmark MSDN and use it frequently.

You won't need to install a web server just yet because Visual Studio/Web Developer comes with its own ASP.NET IIS webserver which gets launched on the fly anytime you launch your site.

I recommend going through the ASP.NET Quickstart guide over at MSDN . It will help you get up to speed on how exactly ASP.NET works.

You might want to bookmark the following sites also:
The Code Project
C# Language reference and details
C# tutorials, i've personally never used this site, but they look like they have quite a few tutorials.

One thing to keep in mind is: experiment! You won't get better by just reading, you have to practice and make mistakes, find out what works and what doesn't!

ASP.NET indeed SEEMS harder at first than PHP, because ASP.NET enforces structure and organization where as PHP just throws you into the fray. You will find that doing things in ASP.NET is so much nicer because you have so much functionality already available to you, as well as the MSDN documentation, and the free IDE!

So run forth, frolic, and enjoy!

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

ixmatus:And I hope your boss is prepared to give you adequate time to learn. It's not a complex language, but the .NET framework is powerful and complex, and it's easy to get lost in it. I strongly suggest doing the opposite to what I did. Take your time to understand the foundations of the .NET framework as a whole (not just the C# language) before you try to do anything fancy with it.

Sounds good. I'll have about 4-5 months, which should be enough time hopefully.

I'm looking at a couple books based on what you said, what do you think? The first is for learning the foundations, the second is to write better code.

• Learning C# 2005: Get Started with C# 2.0 and .NET Programming (2nd Edition)
• Effective C#: 50 Specific Ways to Improve Your C# (Effective Software Development)

I know what you mean about controls. I want to be able to write good controls some day, not just install / configure them.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by YazKMan

First thing you're going to want to do is download the Visual Web Developer Express Edition if you don't have Visual Studio 2005.

Then bookmark MSDN and use it frequently.

You won't need to install a web server just yet because Visual Studio/Web Developer comes with its own ASP.NET IIS webserver which gets launched on the fly anytime you launch your site.

I recommend going through the ASP.NET Quickstart guide over at MSDN . It will help you get up to speed on how exactly ASP.NET works.

You might want to bookmark the following sites also:
The Code Project
C# Language reference and details
C# tutorials, i've personally never used this site, but they look like they have quite a few tutorials.

One thing to keep in mind is: experiment! You won't get better by just reading, you have to practice and make mistakes, find out what works and what doesn't!

Thanks YazKMan, great information. Taking notes here for sure.

Originally Posted by YazKMan

ASP.NET indeed SEEMS harder at first than PHP, because ASP.NET enforces structure and organization where as PHP just throws you into the fray. You will find that doing things in ASP.NET is so much nicer because you have so much functionality already available to you, as well as the MSDN documentation, and the free IDE!

I hear great things about the functional programming aspects of C# too, as well as F# now, coming out soon.

[ixmatus]

Oooh, if you are interested in functional programming languages with C level hardware interaction, check this one out:

BitC

Been keeping my eye on it, and it looks very promising. While not really relevant to your needs - it may be of interest to you, just for the sake of curiosity.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

I'm looking at a couple books based on what you said, what do you think? The first is for learning the foundations, the second is to write better code.

• Learning C# 2005: Get Started with C# 2.0 and .NET Programming (2nd Edition)
• Effective C#: 50 Specific Ways to Improve Your C# (Effective Software Development)

Yup, they seem like good books.

I'd also recommend Amazon.com: Code Complete, Second Edition: Books: Steve McConnell for any software developer. It details proper programming techniques that can be applied to any language. It's something that would have been invaluable for me when I started, but still helped a lot even after I figured out a lot of it on my own.

Once you get a hang of things, and if you want to really understand how .NET work, this one looks good too Amazon.com: CLR via C#, Second Edition (Pro Developer): Books: Jeffrey Richter (haven't read it but it gets mostly 5 star reviews)