How come you don't have to 'install' video games?

[Tasaio]

This one has always confused me.

With console discs, you just pop in the CD (eg. Halo) and start playing.

With a PC, you have to install something -- even a bare 2MB -- of a program to the HDD before using a CD.

(The exception is the Ubuntu LiveCD...is that what consoles use?)

For the sake of argument, let us keep saved games, profiles, etc. out of the discussion.

Would it be possible to make PC games like this in the future?

Thanks in advance,

[ticktockclok]

There are already games that come "pre-installed"; I remember playing one called "Backyard Baseball" when I was younger that could be played by just pushing in the CD.

My guess is that installation merely unpacks files.

[tobyhede]

On modern consoles like the XBox, they make actually be installing some things to the hard drive, just behind the scenes.

Installation generally just pushes files and config to the hard drive of your pc. Some of that is probably a hang up of floppy disk and cd-rom days - you just couldnt get information of the disk fast enough to use in a game.

I imagine the big reason that consoles don't have to do it is because they have Operating Systems optimised for one task, whereas your PC has to do many different things. Kind-of like a sports car being much faster than your family car. But you can't get you groceries home

[Mark Lapierre]

What toby said.

Also, there have been some games that copied the core game files to the HDD during the installation process, but left video files on the CD. This was back in the early days of CDROM drives when HDDs were still small. Far too often the video was jerky because the CDROM couldn't read the data from the disk fast enough to keep up with the frame rate (and if you had a really crap video card you'd be hit double, or triple if your CPU was slow. All possible back then).

Faster DVD drives means data bandwidth is greater, but games are being made more complex, graphics more detailed, and thus still more bandwidth is needed. But ultimately as long as a HDD transfers data faster than a CD or DVD drive, it will always be superior. People are picky. Given a loading time of 10 sec versus 15, they'd probably choose 10, especially if it means only a few minutes of install time.

[aussieNickuss]

Notice when you play a game on a console, it takes a lot longer to load then the same game on a PC? When you install a game on a PC, it's usually loading on all the level data, textures and sound effects to the hard drive, and it only "streams" the soundtracks and video from the disk. A console has to load all that data to its internal memory (RAM) each time you load a level, so it takes longer.

Also, like Toby said. A console only has one purpose in life, and thats to play games. (Although the new consoles such as PS3 and Xbox, do a lot more than that). Whereas a PC has to run the operating system and everything that comes with it while a game is running, so it makes sense to have most things available on a medium that has fast read/write times.

Apparently the whole "Games for Windows" platform that Microsoft is trying to push has a feature that allows games to run straight of the disk without installation. I don't like "Games for Windows" though, as it locks gamers into using Windows or the Xbox and doesn't allow for the other platforms (Mac, Linux, PS3, Wii etc..).

[sunj]

Let me clear something up. Game consoles just recently started getting hardrives. Before, in the Playstation 1 days, to keep the console cheap it would load everything from disc to memory.

Hardrives are much faster than cdroms/dvdroms. Hardrives have gotten a lot cheaper. Games have gotten a lot bigger, so if it were to load everything from disc it would take 3+ minutes. Too much waiting time. So now the most used parts of the game are loaded on to the hardrive.

In conclusion, it was the time versus cost. In the beginning games were smaller, hardrives were expensive, and load times weren't very high. Now games are lot larger, hardrives are cheaper, and load times would be high if it all loaded from disc.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by aussieNickuss

I don't like "Games for Windows" though, as it locks gamers into using Windows or the Xbox and doesn't allow for the other platforms (Mac, Linux, PS3, Wii etc..).

That is complete and utter nonsense! "Games for Windows" (GFW) doesn't require a game to be Windows only. It is the publisher who decides on which platforms the game will be released, not Microsoft.

GFW is actually a really good thing for PC gamers! All games released under the GFW label have been tested and approved by Microsoft on a bunch of guidelines such as compatibility with all the Windows platforms (yes plural!), stability, support for parent controls, etc. much like how all the console manufacturers (Microsoft included) test and approve all games that are released on their platform.

The stringent testing and approval policies of the console manufacturers are what ensure that console games work like everyone has come to expect: pop in the disc and start playing. I think it is great that PC gamers get some of that on their favorite platform too.

Would it be possible to make PC games like this in the future?

It would be possible to make PC games like this today. The games that my company works on ship with the same stream-from-disk technology on PC and consoles. The main reason why the PC version installs a bunch of files on the harddisk is consumer expectation. PC gamers have been drilled, so to speak, into expecting a long(er) install but short and sweet loading times after.

[Trezker]

I want my games fully copied onto my harddrive. I hate having to mess with discs.
Sadly some games have lately decided that forcing us to put a cd in the drive discourages piracy, which it doesn't. All they do is annoy the buyers and force us who are tech savvy to get a pirated copy to fully enjoy the game.

I want everything on my harddrive. I barely ever use my dvd/cd-reader anymore, it's almost become as obsolete as the floppydrive. When I buy music I just rip it to ogg vorbis and never use that cd again, not that I buy music on cd anymore, I get new music from artists that release their music for free directly on he internet.

[sunj]

Originally Posted by Trezker

I want my games fully copied onto my harddrive. I hate having to mess with discs.
Sadly some games have lately decided that forcing us to put a cd in the drive discourages piracy, which it doesn't. All they do is annoy the buyers and force us who are tech savvy to get a pirated copy to fully enjoy the game.

I want everything on my harddrive. I barely ever use my dvd/cd-reader anymore, it's almost become as obsolete as the floppydrive. When I buy music I just rip it to ogg vorbis and never use that cd again, not that I buy music on cd anymore, I get new music from artists that release their music for free directly on he internet.

Get Daemon Tools and ImgBurn. Both are free. Daemon Tools "emulates" a DVD-ROM drive. It makes the computer think that it's a real drive. You use ImgBurn to copy your games from disc to hardrive. You then load the saved cd/dvd "image" in Daemon Tools and it will work just like having a real CD/DVD in a real drive. So what you will have is a large ISO file, which is a copy of the CD/DVD. You load that ISO file in Daemon Tools and it makes it act like it's a CD/DVD. You need a lot of hardrive space if you have a lot of games. But the load times will be much faster.

[ragtag]

A quick test I did showed that my DVD drive could read CDs at around 5mb/sec, DVDs at around 15mb/sec, while my hard drive could read at around 70mb/sec. Faster reading speed, means faster load times, simple as that.

It's quite possible today to make a game run directly of a CD/DVD on a computer (wind,linux,osx), the only difference between it and your hard drive is that you can't write to it. The only thing you would need to save to your drive are high scores, save games etc. Though in theory you could upload these to a web server, so you wouldn't need to save anything locally.

[Trezker]

Originally Posted by sunj

Get Daemon Tools and ImgBurn. Both are free. Daemon Tools "emulates" a DVD-ROM drive. It makes the computer think that it's a real drive. You use ImgBurn to copy your games from disc to hardrive. You then load the saved cd/dvd "image" in Daemon Tools and it will work just like having a real CD/DVD in a real drive. So what you will have is a large ISO file, which is a copy of the CD/DVD. You load that ISO file in Daemon Tools and it makes it act like it's a CD/DVD. You need a lot of hardrive space if you have a lot of games. But the load times will be much faster.

The problem is still there, though no longer in the physical world, I still have to change discs. Daemon tools can hold quite a few drives though.

But I'm on Linux so I don't need extra programs, mounting comes with the OS.

[ChefSalad]

Concerning Daemon-Tools: You can use DaemonScript to automate the image loading process. You just create a script that loads up the image and starts the game. Also, while it's been a year since did any work in this field, it's been my experience that Alcohol 120% (or the cheaper lower percentage version) is a better product for ripping than ImgBurn, but it's not free. Alcohol can also be used with DaemonScript to do the image mounting itself.

Of course this says nothing of the other important techniques you'll to use to do this with newer games, like anti-blacklist protection, and SCSI/SATA cd/dvd drive hiding.