The Abundance Mindset (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

The Abundance Mindset

[RT Wolf]

Yar. I've been wanting more info on the abundance mindset. Ask and it is given indeed.

Thanks, Steve!

[Max Power]

Steve, this is a gem......

"Remember that money is social debt. The size of your bank account is a measure of how much society owes you for the value you’ve already contributed. If you think $10K is a large sum, it means you probably aren’t in a position to generate $10K of value for others very easily. If you can dump that unhealthy mindset, you can open yourself to generating far more value in much less time. When I started thinking of $10K as a small sum, I soon found it very easy to earn $10K. Earning $10K is about as difficult as making a sandwich"

This is very good advice.

1. To make the big money you have to make the big social contribution and

2. Stop seeing large amounts of money as large amounts.

How can anyone seriously expect to make $1M when they 'think' it's a large amount. As soon as you 'think' it's a large amount, it is and then all your limiting beliefs support that the amount is large and will be difficult to manifest.

We should observe that it isn't a large amount and that it was easy to manifest, then it will be.

Well stated SP!

Max

[Angela]

I enjoyed your article.

Just as an aside, regarding: "Fretting over pennies probably seems foolish to you. Similarly, to those who are capable of generating massive value (and being paid accordingly), fretting over $10K is equally foolish. People who can spend $10K on a hotel room know that $10K is not a lot of money."

--- The extraordinarly wealthy individuals I work with squeeze nickels till the buffalo bellows. I didn't really know what penny pinching was until I saw how cautious these folks are with even very small amounts of money. Although they are generating what seem to me to be exhorbitant incomes, I carelessly throw my money away compared to my bosses.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Angela

Although they are generating what seem to me to be exhorbitant incomes, I carelessly throw my money away compared to my bosses.

Is that what they do only in business related expenses... or is it the same in their personal lives...???

.

[Tim Graham]

I really don't see the need for anyone to have a hotel room that costs $10K while there are people who don't even have a blanket.

A $1K hotel room surely provides an effective environment for sitting and thinking abundantly.

Perhaps that explains the well off people who watch their small amounts of money? Although they have a relatively large amount of money, they haven't lost sight of the absolute value of their money.

If the $10K room makes a tiny difference to the occupant, why not take the $1K room for a hardly noticeable difference, and use the remaining $9K to make a massive difference to those people on the planet for whom nickels are big money?

Following Steve's logic, this would increase the "debt" owed to the occupant of the hotel room and thereby bring him further riches!

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Tim Graham

If the $10K room makes a tiny difference to the occupant, why not take the $1K room for a hardly noticeable difference, and use the remaining $9K to make a massive difference to those people on the planet for whom nickels are big money?

"You give a man a fish... and you have fed him for a day... teach a man how to fish... and he will be able to feed himself for the rest of his life..."

You might help someone temporarily by giving him money... but you can help him for the rest of his life if you give him information....

That is what Steve is trying to do here... the $10K room is just an analogy... but, it is not were the message is at...

.

[jmvandehey]

Because if $10k is small to someone, they have MILLION$ to go out and give away. Just look at Bill Gates. A few hundred million sounds like a lot to give to a foundation, but in reality, someone who gives 10% is severely out-giving Bill in relative terms. Especially since it's easier to live on 90% of 10-Billion than 90% of 50-Thousand.

So... Give now, think big, and don't limit yourself either in "getting" or "giving"?

Originally Posted by Tim Graham

If the $10K room makes a tiny difference to the occupant, why not take the $1K room for a hardly noticeable difference, and use the remaining $9K to make a massive difference to those people on the planet for whom nickels are big money?

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by Angela

The extraordinarly wealthy individuals I work with squeeze nickels till the buffalo bellows. I didn't really know what penny pinching was until I saw how cautious these folks are with even very small amounts of money. Although they are generating what seem to me to be exhorbitant incomes, I carelessly throw my money away compared to my bosses.

My mother's family is from New England - Maine, to be exact. Several years ago, my aunt thought I was being extravagant when I bought ramen (vegetarian, no MSG) for 3/$1, when there was some at the same store (chicken powder, loads of MSG) for 10/$1. Oy - I have a lot of programming to... re-program!

Thanks for lots to think about (and act on), Steve.

[UHF]

The basic ethos behind both articles is fine. It's rather like the podcast where Steve talks about carrying more money on his person to be more in line with the mindset of wealthier people who carry more money. The $10K hotel room isn't a great example as it strays into the perception of value rather than measurable value. I wouldn't stay in a $100 hotel room either - I have my own idea about hotel price/quality balance. Same with $30 shoes. I'm sure others do too.

The problem with communicating the ideas in the articles, is that readers will get bogged down with value, perceived value and waste. They'll ask if it's worth spending 10 times as much just to get something 10% better. Also it encourages the concepts of 'good' spending (e.g. having a $100 hotel room and giving the $9900 to restore sight in 3rd world countries). And 'bad' spending - spending $10k on a hotel room where the staff are better dressed. There really do exist things that are a waste of money.

I think the ethos of the articles is fine but the analogies make it difficult for people to get past accepting the basic message and the law of diminishing return.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Max Power

How can anyone seriously expect to make $1M when they 'think' it's a large amount. As soon as you 'think' it's a large amount, it is and then all your limiting beliefs support that the amount is large and will be difficult to manifest.

Just because $1M is a large amount doesn't mean its hard to come by.

I don't see the virtue in trying to trick yourself into thinking that its not a large amount.

I bought some domains a couple nights ago that have a striking similarity in size and etymology to a couple other high value, high traffic sites. How much do you think I can sell them for once they are developed and bringing high traffic?

I think $5M is a lot of money. I also think $20M is a lot of money. Does that mean that I have to believe that its hard to sell a company for those amounts? No. Its definitely not hard to sell a company for those amounts. Its done every week.

Youtube sold for $1,900 million ($1.9B), and they were far from profitable. *shrugs*

Get it?

It doesn't mean you have to buy a Porsche to "get in the right mindset."

I think the right mindset is realizing that you are so happy with your life already that very little would change, even if you had $5M, or $20M.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Just because $1M is a large amount doesn't mean its hard to come by.

That's my point, that's what I mean by plenty of people who the ability to write a cheque for that much and more without blinking an eye

I don't see the virtue in trying to trick yourself into thinking that its not a large amount.

It's not a trick, it's a change of belief. If you think it's hard to come by, it's hardly going to be easy to get is it.

I bought some domains a couple nights ago that have a striking similarity in size and etymology to a couple other high value, high traffic sites. How much do you think I can sell them for once they are developed and bringing high traffic?

Why are you asking me? I don't know, do I look like a DN expert

I think $5M is a lot of money. I think $20M is a lot of money. Does that mean that I have to believe that its hard to sell a company for those amounts? No. Its definitely not hard to sell a company for those amounts. Its done every week.

Where did I say that??? You're not making much sense.

Youtube sold for $1,900 million ($1.9B), and they were far from profitable. *shrugs*

Get it?

It doesn't mean you buy a Porsche to "get in the right mindset."

I think the right mindset is realizing that you are so happy with your life already that very little would change, even if you had $5M, or $20M.

You're all over the place, you're saying big money has a huge wow factor but selling stuff for big money is easy, seems to contradict itself yes???

I'm saying that big money will always be hard to make as long as you see the size of it as unreachable, I think that's Steve's point and I agree. I'm not sure I know what your point is???

I think the important point is to be happy as if your life is rignt, right now, wandering around seeing lack creates lack in money and everything.

Max

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Max Power

Where did I say that???

I only quoted you at the top of my post, inside the quote brackets. You might want to reread if you are unclear.

Originally Posted by Max Power

You're all over the place, you're saying big money has a huge wow factor but selling stuff for big money is easy, seems to contradict itself yes???

What's a wow factor? I'm not sure what you mean.

These are the facts:

• $50 USD can have a lifesaving impact on people who live in more economically unstable countries.
• $50 USD has very little impact on the lives of many people in the United States. If you lost $50 tomorrow your life would probably not change much, if any.

Because of those circumstances it seems to me that an ethical imperative arises, one that can be solved by the following process:

1. Maximize your income here in the US to earn as much as possible.
2. Live on a reasonable income. As I've said, I live well on less than $35k/year, many people live on less.
3. Spend the excess assisting those in need.

Steve is saying that if you live with this kind of philosophy you won't be as efficient in earning money, because in order to have a mindset of abundance you need the capacity to be able to see large amounts of money as being very small. He's also saying that its counterproductive to "feel outraged" over how someone else spends their money.

I'm saying that you would actually be more effective in earning money with this philosophy, because the knowledge that $50 can save a life should give you a huge incentive to both earn more money but also to not spend money frivolously.

Anyway, its an interesting debate, and I'm honestly not sure which is right. But Steve makes more than me for now, so I'll probably conceed until I sell a website or two.

[absvan]

I can see where Steve is coming from by mentioning that holding onto a belief that achieving something is hard will make it hard. But I dont agree with the view that rich people live an expensive lifestyle because they think about the value they can offer.

People drive porsches or wear expensive designer wear or rent 10k hotel rooms to enjoy the value that we as society place on items since we tend to comapare value with money to understand it. So when people rent a 10k dollar hotel room its because they expect and know that will give them special services (totally different from a 100$ room) and status quo and boost to their ego. Driving a porsche will be comfortable than driving
other cars and it also gives them a social value. There are so many expensive designer wears which are made with the same materials as a normal clothing but just adding the tag "Gucci" or "____" makes it expensive. So this is because of the value that we as a society give to those products and people use them to enjoy that value. Do you think Donald Trump would
rent a 10k room and expect to be treated like a person reting a 1k room??

So my point is that people spend so much money to enjoy that value and comfort. To generate the money to own a porsche, one would have invested and/or contributed their time and value/effort. They would have also helped others directly or indirectly. So I think its a fair deal. Using that extra money to help poor people is also good. So it all comes down to individual perspective......

[mattmcc]

Steve, I like your blog but I see you becoming too "Americanized" with your posts lately. In your Quality Contribution post you said "Ultimately the physical stuff in your life is a reflection of your life’s inner quality, not the cause of it." Is "stuff" really that important?

I'm wondering if you've set foot outside the US to see how other people live.

What Developing Nations Can Teach Us About Personal Finance ∞ Get Rich Slowly

Happy in Colombia
My favorite country to visit in the world is Colombia. It has the most beautiful and most awesome natural beauty I have ever seen anywhere on this planet, and has the truly nicest, most generous, and most kind-hearted people in the world. When I retire I want to live in central Colombia and live on the coffee plantations, whose mountain scenery is so crazy gorgeous it cannot even begin to be expressed in words.

Colombia is a very poor country, and has been torn apart by violent civil war for the past four decades. There are more internally displaced persons here than any other country in the world, except for the Democratic Republic of Congo. Bogota is a major world city yet in the vast suburban slums just outside the capital, many people are starving to death (literally), and lack running water and functional sewage systems.

While we can afford the latest iPhone and various other luxuries, a mere four hour plane ride away from the richest country on the planet, some people cannot even afford to feed themselves. Yet the people of Colombia are happy. They place extraordinary emphasis on family and friends, and are not defined by the size of the house they live in or the gadgets they have.

The average Colombian I have met seems a lot more happy and content than the average American I have met whose life is consumed by go-go-corporate-takeover lifestyle. I don’t know about you, but I spend one-third of my life sleeping, and I can vouch that it is more enjoyable when I know people care for me, than when my only concern is the latest rat-race of the week, bucking for the latest promotion. When you walk down the street anywhere in Colombia, people will smile at you, you can strike up conversation with any stranger, and they project happiness. I think the Colombians are on to something.

If you think money is a social debt, tell me, how much was Gandhi worth? What was his income? How about Mother Theresa?

Do you honestly think you are contributing more to the world than them because of your income?

[munish]

Originally Posted by mattmcc

tell me, how much was Gandhi worth? What was his income?

Search the net.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by mattmcc

Do you honestly think you are contributing more to the world than them because of your income?

One of the best thing that we can do for the poor is not to become of of them...

.

[Dan.Linehan]

While in any given year 12 to 15 percent of the population is poor, over a ten-year period 40 percent experience poverty in at least one year because most poor people cycle in and out of poverty; they don't stay poor for long periods. Poverty is something that happens to the working class, not some marginal 'other' on the fringes of society.

- Michael Zweig, What's Class Got to do With It, American Society in the Twenty-first Century, 2004

Those under the age of 18 were the most likely to be impoverished. In 2001 the poverty rate for minors in the United States was the highest in the industrialized world, with 14.8% of all minors and 30% of African American minors living below the poverty threshold. Additionally, the standard of living for those in the bottom 10% was lower in the U.S. than in any other developed nation except the United Kingdom, which had the lowest standard of living for impoverished children. In 2006, poverty rate for minors in the United States was 21.9% - highest child poverty rate in the developed world.

Shamou, our generation isn't exactly set up for success. I'm not sure you fully grasp that, and to what extent.

What service do you propose a typical eighteen year old right out of high school should provide?

(of the 70% who graduate high school)

[openeyes]

Though the hotel was just an example to get the point across, I thought it’d be interesting to actually look at some of the hotels in that price range and see what was said about the people who make use of them:


“According to the hotels on our list, the majority of the clients who book their top rooms are wealthy families in the middle of remodeling their homes, film companies and corporations. Of course, there are always stories of the random sheik, deposed dictator or pop star who stays in a $10,000 hotel room--for a month or two--but they are the exceptions.

“In fact, as with all hotels, there is plenty of bargaining room (no pun intended). The family looking to spend a month or so will usually be able to negotiate a lower price, and companies can save by using a corporate rate. The numbers of people who actually pay full freight are rare. Billionaires also didn't get where they are by being suckers.

“So what exactly do you get when you're spending between $5,000 and $25,000 for a hotel room, which is the range of our list? Space is the most obvious. All of the rooms on the list are huge, averaging more than 5,000 square feet, and that is not counting terraces and balconies--and the occasional private cinema. The other amenity is service. Most of these hotel rooms come with a personal butler or a chauffeured Rolls-Royce at your disposal. Those that do not have a butler or assistant on hand have an implied "anything you want" rule.”

The World's Most Expensive Hotel Rooms - Forbes.com

I wonder if someone would take the billionaire’s bargaining for a lower price as sign of a lack mentality. When I worked in sales I saw 100 grand per year as minimum wage, and if something caught my interest and cost less than a few hundred dollars or so I didn’t give buying it a second thought. Later on I decided being more conscious about how I spent my money may be more beneficial, and thus I’ve become more like the frugal billionaires, focusing my energy on what I see to be of genuine value. With my change in focus I'm now semi-retired. I don't have to work any more than I want to, and I can focus my time on whatever I see as most valuable, not necessarily what will pay the most.

Looking at an old dreamboard from a few years ago when I read a lot of Randy Gage I see a $150,000 turbine motorcycle, a Maybach, Porsche Carrera, Learjet, and so on. At this point I no longer see those as helping me achieve my goals. I value experiences over possessions which would need to be cared for. Right now I’m being offered a sports car as a gift, under the condition that I never sell it. I’m seriously not sure if I want it, even though it’s an incredible car. So far I feel freer the fewer possessions I have, as I gradually clean things out and focus on the essentials (good books, health, and friends).

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

[I]
Shamou, our generation isn't exactly set up for success. I'm not sure you fully grasp that, and to what extent.

Your generation has more resources then anyone ever had since the dawn of times...

What your generation does lack though is "resourcefulness, imagination and a work ethic..."

With all the new resources... you can start a business with nothing more than a PC... with those new resources you can reach an untold number of people in the four quarters of the globe instantaneously... with those new resources... any info that you need is at your fingertips...

You guys have tremendous resources that no one ever had before... so, I ask you... why do you feel underprivileged...???

.

[mattmcc]

Originally Posted by Shamou

One of the best thing that we can do for the poor is not to become of of them...

.

My point was not to say we should all become nomadic wanderers living off the land. Far from it. I believe everyone in the world should be able to live a healthy and sustainable life.

My point is that it is extremely dangerous and egotistical to think that because you are earning more money than the next person, you are contributing more to society. It is also foolish to think that owning more possessions will make you happier.

Warren Buffet understands this. As humans we'd like to think that we're always in control but that's not the case. Some of your life does come down to "luck."

I personally think that society is responsible for a very significant percentage of what I've earned. If you stick me down in the middle of Bangladesh or Peru or someplace, you find out how much this talent is going to produce in the wrong kind of soil... I work in a market system that happens to reward what I do very well - disproportionately well. Mike Tyson, too. If you can knock a guy out in 10 seconds and earn $10 million for it, this world will pay a lot for that. If you can bat .360, this world will pay a lot for that. If you're a marvelous teacher, this world won't pay a lot for it. If you are a terrific nurse, this world will not pay a lot for it. Now, am I going to try to come up with some comparable worth system that somehow (re)distributes that? No, I don't think you can do that. But I do think that when you're treated enormously well by this market system, where in effect the market system showers the ability to buy goods and services on you because of some peculiar talent - maybe your adenoids are a certain way, so you can sing and everybody will pay you enormous sums to be on television or whatever -I think society has a big claim on that.

There's the study that you've probably heard of which shows that up to a certain income level, a raise in income will increase your happiness. But once you surpass that level, happiness does not increase. There's a reason for that.

openeyes makes a good point. I recently read "The Millionaire Next Door." It is a study of America's millionaires. The authors found that it is not the millionaires who spend lavishly on expensive hotel rooms, cars and houses. Instead it is the people who can't afford it but want to look like they can. Most millionaires got to that point by wasting as little money as possible.

[inter351]

I think, an organized, fisical and emotionaly healthy, perason; with an average normal healthy personal history; will be educated, entusiast worker and will earn a nice income, and will be expend with care. So he/she would look nice, well groomed and "balanced". As opposed to an aragan or a pearson that doesn't care about himself and doesn't work.

In the first case, I think, "Ultimately the physical stuff in your life is a reflection of your life’s inner quality, not the cause of it."; but not that if you buy a Porche it *necesarly* means that you life inner quality is better than if you drive a respected Camry.

---

I think that not becoming a poor is something obviouly good, for you and for the poor. But I think it is not good if it is for using it as an escuse for not doing anything else.