What if you reverse the idea of subjective reality?

[Toine]

What would you get if you reversed the idea of subjective reality? What would this be like? Could you change your beliefs to this?

The core idea of this reversal would be that you are the only one without a conscious and that everything else is conscious. For the example in the discussion on this forum surrounding the Virginia Tec shooting it would mean that Steve did not 'cause' the shooting, but the shooting 'caused' Steve. Not Steve made Steve, but we made Steve. Steve does not exist. He is a product of our collective imagination. So unlike, subjective reality, where Steve would exist because of me, Steve exist because of us. To put it in another way: You do not exist because of me, but I exist because of every thing else.

This probably doesn't make sense, but what if you made this your core belief, what would happen?

Just call it a pseudo-philosophical thread.

[Dive Bomb]

That's actually a very interesting idea. Somebody affected by the shooting emotionally may be looking for some condolences and stumble upon Steve's blog, and BAM, Steve is now in thier awareness and he exists to them.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Toine

The shooting 'caused' Steve. Not Steve made Steve, but we made Steve. Steve does not exist. He is a product of our collective imagination. So unlike, subjective reality, where Steve would exist because of me, Steve exist because of us. To put it in another way: You do not exist because of me, but I exist because of every thing else.

In SR there is only one consciousness, it isn't shared and there is no collectiveness. In SR, Steve doesn't exist because of you or me, Steve exists because of consciousness, people are not conscious, no person is conscious.

The opposite of SR would be a belief system where there is no consicousness and people, humans are the creative force. I think what you're trying to say is that consciousness created Steve and that makes it SR.

To think that we as consciousness or people collectively as consciousness create other people for a specific reason doesn't seem to be the opposite of SR and it makes it sound like we all together think people into being for a reason to serve our collecive selves as people.

You idea could work as a model where everyone is a seperate version of consciousness working consciously together for the betterment of overall conssciousness, but I don't think that's what you're saying.

[Mark Lapierre]

"collective imagination" is similar to "collective consciousness." SR doesn't state that Steve exists because of you, but rather because he is part of the collective consciousness, which is the same thing as existing because of all of us.

In other words what you've described is subjective reality. Max says there is no collectiveness, which, as far as SR is concerned, is true concerning consciousness, but not true concerning all of we who seem to be individuals. As individuals we are part of the collective consciousness, but according SR that is an illusion and there is no we, just consciousness.

Ok, but considering your model one its own rather than a reversal of SR, here's a couple of issues:

1) "you are the only one without a conscious"

How do you define "conscious?" I assume you mean consciousness. Do you mean the function of self-awareness and capability of thought? If that's the case, without consciousness we wouldn't be human. We would be animals operating on pure emotion and instinct, incapable of manipulating the world in the way that we do.

2) "You do not exist because of me, but I exist because of every thing else."

If you exist because of the rest of us, how do the rest of us exist? You've already said I, as an individual don't exist because of you. Therefore no single individual can exist because of any other individual. Then how it is possible for anyone to exist?

I don't think I understand what you're trying to say. Could you clarify what you mean?

As for the opposite to SR, it's already defined. It would mean that there is no universal consciousness, each individual is conscious, and reality truly exists independent of our perception.

That's my core belief. What does that lead to? Not much that's apparently different to people who believe in SR, in the end. I still consider every person important, I'm still generally happy, and I still go about my day as every other person seems to be doing.

[The David]

The SR you described is more like Solipsism.