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| | #1 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: in your fridge
Posts: 2,018
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I wasn't sure which forum this belonged on so I started it here... I'm experimenting with becoming a darkworker since my natural inclination is towards that polarity but I have run into a sticking point. I'm confused how being a darkworker influences how I should view other people. To put it simply, is it possible to love another person and truly be a darkworker? Or does a darkworker only derive pleasure from others in the form of validation? Any advice much appreciated. Cheers. |
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| | #2 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,532
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You are right. A darkworker's relationships tend to revolve around validation and fear of being alone. But then when you take it far enough the two paths tend to converge. A lightworker would be in an intimate relationship so they could express love. A darkworker would express love in order to be in an intimate relationship. Often what becomes good for the darkworker becomes good for all. As a darkworker you can be fully true to yourself and get the relationship *you* really want, cutting away those leaches that won't help you out at all. To have that relationship you probably will have to be loving and caring to the person that gives you what you want. Win-win situations and mutual gain are still good goals for a darkworker. As a darkworker a person will be self centred, but it doesn't mean they have to be selfish, even though many people confuse the two. I hope this helps you out. ps. I tend to polarise to the light side, so this is my view from the outside. |
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| | #4 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 398
| Quote:
But usually when people use the word selfish, we mean it in a more behavioral-based way: "He's so selfish; he (took the last piece of pizza without even asking)(wouldn't give her a ride home even though it's right on his way)(wouldn't help me with my homework because 'it doesn't affect his grade')(is always cutting people off on the highway) And a darkworker wouldn't engage in those behaviors any more than a lightworker would. (Taking the last piece of pizza makes people angry at you, making it less likely that they'll invite you to pizza in the future; giving her a ride home is a low-cost way to get a favor owed to you; ditto the homework; cutting people off on the highway endangers his life) So although they may be selfish in the literal sense, they're unlikely to have the term applied to their behavior. | |
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| | #5 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,016
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and given this how can a dark worker and light worker possibly cohabitate? they are as the topic sugests 2 opposite ends of the spectrum ... | |
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| | #6 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 398
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| | #7 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 142
| Quote:
But a darkworker has something that's also sometimes called love. It is seeing intense value in things. I'm sure you can see how a darkworker might value gold or some other object. There are sentences such as "love of money" and "love of power". A high-level darkworker can also see intense value and importance in other people. Respect for another somewhat like their high respect for themselves, their feeling of self-importance extending to see other people as important in that manner of value, related to the same feeling with which they value themself ('egoistical/narcissistic' selflove), because they see the inherent or potential value the other person has to them. (note they'll still turn their back on another person any time it serves them to do so - not as something they'll do all the time just for the principle of it, they'll stay loyal to gain something, but when the relationship is no longer beneficial to them, they'll quit without a backwards glance) Respecting a person, honouring a person, and drawing pleasure from having a great person in their lives. that's only what I think, I haven't really tried darkworking much. But see if it resonates with you. Also, think selfishly of all the ways a partner could enhance your life. Simply focus on what you desire (not in the way of longing for 'sappy' love and sharing) and would enjoy in your life. Then I also think you could see how you could value a partner very strongly, 'love' them in a manner that is more aligned with the definite fear-polarized emotion of lust (not just sexual, but 'lust' for their presence) than sweet-soft longing for love. Caring for another person would be like caring for something that's important to you, instead of caring for another person for the other person's sake. But there can still be a great intensity and focus, dedication to caring for them, if you've decided they're of value to you. | |
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| | #8 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: in your fridge
Posts: 2,018
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Thanks guys, So a darkworker still desires to be social for the sake of being social and they still desire intimacy with others. This makes sense to me. It's my personal issues that are holding me back I think...I'm not a good enough darkworker yet! I'd still love to hear the opinions of somebody who is strongly polarised to 'darkworking'. I'd particularly like to know how to remove any feelings of guilt for doing what *I* want. It all stems from a deeprooted feeling of unworthiness I think. How can I get rid of that? Will it naturally fade over time by polarising more strongly? |
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| | #9 (permalink) | ||
| Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 20
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How do you remove guilt? - Avoid situations that could trigger retaliation - Avoid attachments to things that can be lost - Understand the essence of retaliation The last item is practical and surprisingly potent. Why do others retaliate? Because you're not doing what they want. Think about the implications of that. You're not doing what they want. So? Who do they think they are? What are their motives? Enlightened people rarely retaliate. They take measured action to prevent you from making a bigger mess. Or they simply move along. There is little to fear. Unenlightened people do retaliate, but they command no moral high ground, so you can stop beating yourself up. Be wary of pretenders who invoke the cross, or the flag, or the community, or saving the children, in order to legitimize their self-serving demands. At the risk of sounding sexist, the archetypal example is perhaps the woman who accuses you of being a selfish jerk because she doesn't want to share you with another woman. If she doesn't want to share, that's cool, but it hardly makes you selfish! Another classic example is the person who serves their own spiritual greed and community standing by stealing your money and freedom in the name of the children. If you don't give up your freedom and money you're a horrible person! If these people are angry or retaliatory it is because they would personally benefit, but they have failed to control you. It stems from fear of loss. People often fear losing: - Health - Toys - Reputation (bedroom privileges - Participation in social games (bedroom privileges - Access to community resources (bedroom privileges Quote:
If you cannot continuously manifest understanding, you will alternate between guilt and serenity in pathological fashion. Last edited by bdc; 07-18-2007 at 07:51 PM. | ||
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| | #10 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 24
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This is my first post here, so indulge me perhaps. I've been reading Steve's site voraciously for about a month, and today was the day I read about polarization and darkworker/lightworker. I disagree with the entire assessment on both points. It's clear that the characterization of these two polarities seems like choosing whether to be Christlike versus being the Antichrist. I think the whole premise is wrong. Based on the descriptions of "darkworker, " that seems like it's a path of destruction, vanity, and other low-level consciousness qualities. The description of "lightworker" seems to be to strive for the highest good of all. That's why it's wrong. If you can truly optimize through either path, and the behaviors reflected look the same, then one cannot be against the highest good while one is for it. They are merely two sides of the same path. I don't yet have terminology to properly label these two, so I will stick with the lightworker/darkworker labels. A "darkworker" will be motivated by the desire to improve himself. In doing so, everyone benefits. If everyone does not benefit, then it is not high consciousness being achieved. If there is retribution or any price to pay for self-improvement, then the self has not improved. To truly self-optimize, one must consider the highest good as well. A "lightworker" will be motivated by the desire to serve others. In order to best serve others, she needs to also optimize herself. If she does not optimize herself, she cannot BEST serve others. She can serve others, but not to the maximum potential. Thus, I see the idea of light versus dark flawed. Service of self and service of others are mutually enhancing and congruent. I see polarization as a choice of which will be the motivating factor. If you look and say, "I want to be the best that I can be. I know that if I do that, it will be for the highest good" (especially if you consider subjective reality). If you look and say, "I want to serve the highest good. I know to do that I must be the best I can be" (especially if you consider subjective reality). So, the only difference between the two "polarizations" is which lights the fire. I know when I consider the two options, I say, "I can really get motivated to be the best I can be." By that definition, I am a "darkworker," until I figure out a better set of terminology. Evil people are NOT "darkworkers," they are low consciousness beings. Conversely, being a good person does NOT make you a "lightworker." "Darkworker" is not fear based. It is "self motivates me." "Lightworker" is not love based. It is "service motivates me." If it is not for the highest good, it is NOT high consciousness. |
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| | #11 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Netherlands
Posts: 821
| Quote:
Ps. He has mentioned multiple times that lightworker and darkerworker aren't the best labels but theres simply a lack of anything better right now. | |
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| | #12 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 398
| Quote:
An Academic road to improvement To help expunge the social conditioning insisting that only in self-sacrifice can you get to paradise, consider reading Ayn Rand. I personally find her non-fiction better than her fiction, but others disagree. The non-fiction explains and the fiction demonstrates her basic point: the self-sacrifice model makes no sense! Why are everybody elses' needs more important than mine? Why am I the only person in the entire universe whose desires don't count? Given a resounding lack of sensible answers to these questions, Rand suggests a system whereby everybody takes care of themselves instead. You can also try reading Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. It's another fiction demonstration of Rand's point -- seen most clearly in the 6th book, Faith of the Fallen. (There's enough explanation in there that you can pick it up at the 6th book and follow the story without difficulty.) It shows some of the truly atrocious things that can happen when people insist that self-sacrifice is the only way, and the incredibly good that can happen when people decide to take their lives into their own hands and make themselves powerful. A more earthy road Alternately, regress to 6 years old and play the "Why" game. When someone tries to make you feel terrible for doing what you wanted (whether it's you or someone else saying "you shouldn't have done that") respond with "Why?" The conversation may go something like: 'You shouldn't have done that' and respond "Why?" and the answer is, "Because it hurt your friend, and now she's not your friend anymore" In this case, it was something that really wasn't in your self interest, so you should avoid it in the future. But in many cases, the conversation will go something like: 'Because it's wrong to do things for yourself' "Why?" 'Because only through self-sacrifice can you achieve enlightenment' "Why?" 'Um... Because that's the way the world works' "Why?" 'Because if everyone only looked out for themselves, the world would be a terrible place' "Why?" At some point, the nasty (whether it's another person or just your inner nagger) will run out of answers. Once you realise that the self-sacrifice model is an arbitrary set of rules imposed by a society that doesn't really have a reason for it, you'll feel more comfortable ignoring it. Good luck! | |
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| | #13 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 153
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What I am going to give is my opinion. It may be wrong. I think polarization is wrong. You can enjoy your development and other people's as well. You can love someone, and give to that person, and enjoy what that person gives you. I don't see the reason why you should only enjoy what you get from other people. Giving is a form of joy, getting is a form of joy, and deciding to be a darkworker so you'll only be "getting" is pretty limiting, for your development and your happiness. You can work for yourself and love others, yes. You can't love others without the joy of giving. It's as nice to prepare a good meal thinking of how much your partner will enjoy it; as being surpised by your partner with a good meal that you can enjoy. Why should you deprive yourself of one of those joys? Of course, when choosing friends and partners, you should choose people who also like giving. But when you find such a person, someone who gives and receives with equal pleasure, you are one step next to happiness. So, if I were you, I wouldn't polarize. You say you are a darkworker. I suppose that means you want to develop yourself and your life. If you, as a darkworker are doing harm, in the end it will hurt you. If you are producing something useful, why shouldn't you be glad that what you're doing is useful? It won't be an obstacle for you to enjoy the fact that what you're doing helps you, and pays your bills. So, my suggestion would be: do not polarize. Love requires two givers without doormat ambitions. And if you choose NOT to give, love is something you won't have. And I wouldn't trust friends who don't give either. Last edited by Natsu; 06-01-2007 at 11:06 AM. |
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| | #14 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 170
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I think of choosing light or dark as being lazy. Its easy to pick a course of action if you have decided in advance if you are doing first for yourself or first for others. The middle road, choosing each time, depending on circumstances is harder but leads to balance and harmony in the end. |
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| | #16 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 142
| Quote:
I think a lot of people have problems with the idea because before polarization, they use different polarities for respective parts of their lives - anger towards and revenge on the bad guys, forgiveness and compassion for the good guys. Dark for getting a fancy new car, light for driving your kids to school in it. But either side have mechanisms for any situation. It's not compartmentalized getting/giving like that - polarizing doesn't remove half your life, or make it irrelevant or unenjoyable. The thing is, when darkworkers give, they do it as an act of getting, seeing how it improves their reality, their situation, people important to them , with a lust for all pleasing things in life fueling them. When lightworkers get, they enjoy it with love, enjoying that the giver gives as an act of love (if it is so), and with gratitude. Some culturally well-known examples: Lightworkers can enjoy stopping to smell the flowers. Darkworkers can enjoy polishing their collection of rare and valuable items. | |
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| | #17 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 153
| My point is still valid: it's either/or, and "both" sounds much better. I want to stop smell the flowers I watered, AND polish my collection of rare and valuable items. I don't know why I should be stronger by focusing on one thing, when I can just as logically and easily choose both. That's why I have a problem with the concept: it's really, really limiting.
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| | #18 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 142
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But right - what is the point of choosing one? Actually, it's a very big one. If you don't polarize, you'll be holding yourself down from higher levels of consciousness. As Steve wrote, you can experience/use the energies -3/+3 before polarization, when afterwards you can reach 10 - on a logarithmic scale. Higher levels of consciousness make for an intensely rich and positive experience, with less and less negative emotion bogging you down. If you can reach the level of joy, "a pervasive feeling of natural euphoria" - http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...consciousness/ that is always in the back of your mind, and have it as both loving joy and being high on power, I'd be more than impressed. Truth is, you can only have very little of both. You can have many, many times more of one. By not choosing, you are actually giving up on a lot, an enormous lot. You're giving up a glory that is unlike anything at the lower levels, before polarization. For example loving all in existence (lightworker), or feeling unstoppably powerful and having a thirst for all of life. The reason for polarizing is that you can reach higher levels of consciousness, become a better, grander person, have a consistently wonderful experience - and you'll evolve much faster, go through the levels faster, after polarization. So not polarizing is really, really limiting. Suffering, lack of higher states of being, comes from mixing polarizations. Guilt is the most obvious example. But notice that to reach higher levels, to be better people, lightworkers have to transcend fear, see fear, the energy which fuels darkworkers at the root, as an illusion. They also become humble (not neccesarily acting humble, but feeling safe leads them to feel less self-important, except as a being to express love) - a darkworker does the opposite, seeing themself as all-important. And a darkworker has to discard compassion, which drags them towards guilt and makes internal conflicts that become anger. When one holds thoughts from both polarities at once, or shift between them a lot, this drags their energy down. Your problem might be that you have never seen the potential beyond this muddled state - and that is no fault of yours, since we have so few examples. Very few people polarize. But when you see the betters states of being, when you start to glimpse higher levels of consciousness, you'll see they're imcompatible. The feeling of complete love is as different from the feeling of complete importance as black is from white. Light's love for all of life. Dark's thirst for all of life. You see, it's that. If you look at this set of data, you probably already know it. How for example your drive and ambition are not as high as they could be if you centered your life around service to self or service to others. How there's a ceiling to your most positive emotions. Something holding you back from going all-out in what you know to be a good thing. Yes, polarizing loses you one. But the gain is really indescribable. It's like putting down a penny to pick up a briefcase with a million bucks. http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2007/02/polarization/ Quote:
Last edited by Shindra; 06-02-2007 at 05:23 AM. Reason: grammar | ||
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| | #20 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 153
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Most "darkworkers" I've known never get higher than pride. They lose the joy of love and giving. It's a great loss. "Lightworkers" are supposed to lose the joy of the knowledge of their own potential and divinity. Another great loss. No sense in any of it. Quote:
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Well, let's rephrase that. Not to me. Anyway, if reality is subjective and I believe I'll be stronger by non-polarizing, I'll be stronger by not polarizing, full stop. Still, I haven't seen why mutilating yourself will get you higher. You say "Polarization gets you higher, non-polarization gets you down"... I say... Why? I don't agree at all with that. I went up the levels of consciousness thanks to a higher consciousness and understanding of myself, meditation, hard work, use of the law of attraction... But, polarization? No polarization will raise your level of consciousness as the fact of getting to know that levels of consciousness exist. That alone makes you go higher. Quote:
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Last edited by Natsu; 06-02-2007 at 09:58 PM. | |||||||||||||||||||
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| | #21 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2
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If I understand correctly, darkworkers see fear as something to be conquered. Couldn't this include the fear of having his heart broken? A darkworker could love without restraint, perhaps as passionately as a lightworker, but motivated by the desire to conquer that fear. Or at least to experience all the emotional highs that being in love entails. right?
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