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| "People don't poof out of existence when you stop thinking about them. People aren't merely in existence for your enjoyment. People think. People feel. People are real."- Do these statements undermine subjective reality? Or can subjective reality still be valid if the believer recognizes that these statements are true? |
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__________________ All that matters is results. |
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Another thing about people being important, if they are so important, why does it not bother most people that so many people (150,000+) die everyday. People get very angry when you say they cease to exist when they aren't in your presence. "What the hell do you mean I don't exist when you leave" but from an SR POV if you follow the belief, consciousness your consciousness/awareness is all there is, everything outside of that is possibly and probably not real. I don't fully understand it and I can see why it's frustrating and almost insanity on a stick I think the trick is to consider it from a consciousness POV your consciousness POV and not your mind/body. I don't think you can undermine SR, just try it or reject it. It's a possible way to view reality, doesn't mean it is the way Max The Big SR Sticking Point Last edited by Max Power : 05-22-2007 at 11:29 AM. |
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remember that in SR, consciousness is not an ego. People don't merely exist for one conscious person's enjoyment - consciousness is not a person/ego. I also find the word 'enjoyment' a strange choice, unless one would equally say that one's own thoughts and emotions exist for their enjoyment. I think it's like this... People that exist within consciousness are as real as your thoughts and emotions that exist within your consciousness, and as real as anything you experience. You can percieve, be aware of, someone within your consciousness to be thinking and feeling. You can have a dream of a very deep character that expresses emotion you empathise with. They have minds, they are feeling entities, but they only exist within your consciousness. It is all your mind, in that sense. They feel emotions, still that all only exist within consciousness. Those are consciousness' feelings. Consciousness is the only one that is conscious of it all. That doesn't necessarily make less of people, it makes more of consciousness. Quote:
SR doesn't make people shallow and empty, what is within consciousness is not shallow. The one conscious is aware of people as thinking and feeling entities, only they don't exist outside of consciousness, because consciousness is the container and not contained within consciousness, and there are not individual awarenesses *inside* those people/egos. People are still as deep and profound. Notice that you are aware of your body; it is not aware of you. Notice that you are aware of your thoughts and emotions - not the other way around. Your ego is not your true identity - you are that which is aware of all this. Your ego is not self-aware, awareness is aware of the ego. That doesn't mean you're aware of *less*.
__________________ I've been totally wrong before and I might be totally wrong now, so if I'm totally wrong, just forget everything I ever said. |
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There are universes, galaxies, and God-knows-what-else present in the outer universes that we have no idea of or haven't observed yet. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. If they didn't exist until we observed them, their birth would be at the moment of the first observation, not the time which scientists have calculated for the neighboring galaxies for example. |
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http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...-or-awareness/ If you dreamed you were a pink elephant, it would be wrong to say that pink elephant was the dreamer. Consciousness does not exist *inside* anything. It is the container not contained. No, Shindra is not conscious. Mysterygal is not conscious. Consciousness is conscious *of* them. Not the other way around. I'd say try looking at your hand and believing it is, seeing it as, independently conscious of you, aware of you, but I tried that mindbend once for fun and got out of it again in a blink as I was errily reminded of that disorder where people think one of their limbs is owned by someone else/does not belong to them. True identity is consciousness, containing and filling everything, there is only one and nothing is conscious but consciousness. And note that I have only come close to seeing SR some times and think I have understood it intellectually, I have not truly adopted that belief and experienced it from the inside - I'm working on that. So look to Steve's posts first.
__________________ I've been totally wrong before and I might be totally wrong now, so if I'm totally wrong, just forget everything I ever said. Last edited by Shindra : 05-24-2007 at 04:07 PM. Reason: tone |
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The truth is, nothing can undermine SR. It is not a falsifiable belief system. That doesn't mean it's true, or that someone should believe it, but it simply cannot be proven wrong. |
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If God, being the First Observer, can be exempt from requiring an observer to facilitate His existence, why can't everything else in the universe also be exempt?
__________________ Take a stroll down The Winding Path and let me know what you think of the scenery. |
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The universe is running perfectly only as far as we can tell. Who are we to say that a) we know how the universe should run, and b) what universal turmoil could look like? We only know what we observe, reason, and understand. There could be a lot going on beyond what we see. But all of this ignores my point, that there need not be a god-like First Cause. It's illogical to trace causes back as far as we can observe, and then when we're at our limit of understanding, use God to fill in the blanks and hold Him untouchable by the same reasoning. Of course that ignores the fact that faith and reason don't necessarily go hand in hand. {edit: It's probably better that we continue this discussion over here}
__________________ Take a stroll down The Winding Path and let me know what you think of the scenery. Last edited by Mark Lapierre : 05-25-2007 at 05:00 AM. Reason: Added link to the more relevant thread |
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| SR can only ever be outlined and introduced, while words can describe it, you must experience it to grasp it, words do not do it justice, just like the shift of focus from ego to consciousness, it can't be described faithfully, you must experience it. "I can show you the path, only you can walk it" Morpheus to Neo Last edited by Max Power : 05-25-2007 at 04:17 AM. |
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__________________ I am always open for feedback on my posts. That might focused on the argument at hand or on my writing style. If your feedback would go offtopic feel free to send me a Personal Message. I don't believe in Beliefs. |
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Accept it, reject it, that's all we can do. Max |
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What is a protein? A protein is made up of amino acids. What are amino acids? A molecule. What is a molecule? A substance made up of two or more atoms. What is an atom? The fundamental and smallest structure matter characterizing an element. What are subatomic partlces? A particle smaller than an atom that are made up of quarks. What are quarks? Fundamental particles which make up subatomic particles. What are quarks made of? A. What is "A" made of? B. What is "B" made of? C. ...What is "Z" made of? Let's say energy for argument's sake. What is energy made of? A'. What is "A'" made of? B'. It goes on and on and on. Quote:
You can go on forever looking for answers. But you cannot deny there must have been a first cause. Quote:
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__________________ Take a stroll down The Winding Path and let me know what you think of the scenery. |
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