Darkworker to the bone; thanks Steve.

[nvictor]

In my hunt for scholarships, I have come across one that deals with one of my core personal development subject: fear. We have to answer both of the following questions in 250 words [they were not enough for me though].

What would you do if you weren't afraid?
How are you going to change the world?

I think my answer has a target: lightworkers.

What would you do if you weren't afraid?
Even though I want this scholarship, I not going to lie there. Getting rid of fear is a bad idea. I don't know how Zaadz.com started, but I have been in the personal development field for two years now. Stevepavlina.com guided me through. My own ideas started developing since then. And fear is one of my core ideas. To answer your question, if I were not feeling fear at all, I would seek fear.

A darkworker is somebody whose actions are fear-based. Those articles may introduce you: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...oblem-solving/ http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2007/02/polarization/ http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2007/02/polarity/
Darkworking is a commitment, and I will tell you how I have come to this commitment.

First of all, I believe in evolution, and fear is a driving force of evolution. Human beings have evolved a lot because they feared. You are able to ask this question about fear because your ancestors experienced it. Even the medium we are using for this discussion [Internet] was created with fear-based thinkings; never forget the link between ArpaNet and the Cold War. Second. Every living creature on earth experiences fear; being an exception is not natural. Look at trees and their flowers. Why do you think flowers only blossom certain period of the year? Why blossom in winter and die few days after?

That said, not being afraid is not being human. If I lose the feeling of fear one day, I will seek for it. So, everybody is afraid because the world is going bad... This conception is false. If the world is going bad, that's because we are not experiencing fear enough. We humans don't fear mother earth anymore. But look at the other creatures around, they still fear mother earth. We don't need part-fear but full-fear.

I have so much to say about this fear topic, but we are under limit, and I need that scholarship.


How are you going to change the world?
There is only one thing I would like to do: open the eyes of creatures who have forgotten that they are creatures. I'm a true believer of nature and mother earth. And the attitude we human beings are showing our mother earth is not tolerable. Maybe we are not evolving the right way. So instead of trying to get rid of fear we are creating ourselves, we should try to seek the reason why we are not evolving well.

Other creatures are not destroying mother earth, and we call them instinct-based creatures? Some of them, from which we have descended, know how to swim by instinct; but we humans, have lost this ability. What is wrong with us? It is sad we have all inherited those bad things. How I want to go back to the beginning because some people can't even live without electricity. How I want to show my neighbors that the only thing we own on this planet is our knowledge.

But nobody can confront the world directly without some kind of power. This said, I need money and I need more knowledge. I think that this whole discussion is ironic: can one asks the question of changing the world if that one is not fearing that the world is being wrong? No. So you want to get rid of fear? I will prevent you from doing that because I'm a darkworker and I'm afraid you are destroying the world I'm living in.

Changing the world, considering what we have done so far, starts by forgetting the love-based thinking for a moment and teach human beings to fear mother nature again.


So lightworkers, I'm waiting for you answers.

[munish]

Very good.Keep it up.

[Sam988]

nvictor, i really didnt get your point.



Are you suggesting that the lightworkers are destroying mother nature?

[nvictor]

Sam988,

No. Unfortunately, we are all. But lightworkers refuse to be afraid of that destruction. We Darkworkers are afraid and based on this fear of earth destruction, we are trying to do something [at least, I am ]

[Adrienne]

For me, love is more powerful then fear. I do things our of love for people, animals, the earth, etc not because i fear them or the conquences.

Using your example, you want to help the earth out of fear that we will destory it and all die or whatever. I want to help the earth (and it is one of my goals to do such as well) because i love the earth. I love the earth and the trees, animals, plants, water, air, everything.

Love (for me) is more powerful then fear. If i live out of fear, i would be afraid to lose all my material possessions, that i would die etc, but because i come out of love, you can take away everything, and i still have the world, you take away the world, and i still have the sky and stars, you take that away, i still have my mind and love. It doesn't matter.

I think kids illustrate this point well. People will do things out of love for their kids that even their most powerful fear cant make then do.

Does this mean that i am passive and dont do anything to help the world? No. It means that i just approach it differently. I will help the world, help end world hungery, help bring abotu world peace, help animals, stop cutting down trees, etc. I take action to help all these things in little and big ways.

Hope that helps to explain.

Adrienne

[nvictor]

Adrienne, I was waiting for that parent/child example. When one thinks about unconditional love, it is really parent-child relationship.

But, there is flaw. I don't have a child, but I think that people love children because they are little, defenseless, and they need love. We are afraid of what might happen to them if we don't provide that care.

In my philosophy classes, we have learned about how a mother wolf has brought up two human girls. I don't remember the names, but I should mention them if I find them again.

In my humble opinion, mother wolf has taken care of these children because she has mistaken them for defenseless wolfies. Why do parents trust nannies?

I could expand furthermore to human relationship, but I will get punched by people

Fear is the real driving force...

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by nvictor

But, there is flaw. I don't have a child, but I think that people love children because they are little, defenseless, and they need love. We are afraid of what might happen to them if we don't provide that care.

Fear is the real driving force...

Fear is not at all. I am not a parent. But i am still motivated by love. While i don’t want to lose the people in my life, i dont fear doing so. Love and friendship transcends death. We have memories, and pictures, and the experiences.
I think children in alot of ways teach unconditional love. Until kids, lots of people dont get it. They dont know what it is like to truly love without getting anything back but a smile or a dirty diaper. Kids for a lot of people teach true love and true forgiveness, but that is not the only way to learn it.

Your theory here is flawed. I have a 16 year old cousin. I am a few years older then him. He is big, 6'3 and counting. He can pick me up and swing me around... and he does. He is smart, can cook, he works. He really does not need me to take care of him. Sure, he loves advice and help with programming and help with calculus, but almost everyone needs help with those. He is neither little, young, or defenseless, yet there is nothing i would not do for him. It is not fear of him being taken from me or him not being able to take care of himself, its simply that i love him and love to spend time with him and love to do things with him and for him.
He would surive ok with me. He might not understand calculas as well. He would miss me. But he would surive and still do great things. I want to still be around for him and continue to teach him how to drive and watch his eyes light up when his program compiles, but he will live an awesome life without me. One day he will have too.

He learned unconditional love through cats. Seriously. He loves his cats more then i have ever seen anyone express love for animals. Because he understands this, he understands love on a much deeper love then a lot of people do.

Love can do anything. Fear is limited to being able to take something away, or hold something other someone. Love knows no bounds. It can never be taken away.

Adrienne

[Sam988]

nvictor, as adrienne stated, lightworkers want to help the earth because of the love they feel about the planet they live in, while darkworkers also want to help the earth because of the fear of what will happen to them if they lose the home planet.


The intentions are the same, what changes is the reason why each of them holds their intention.


Love and Fear, both are very powerful.




But anyways, my definition of darkworking isnt that he is fear based, but rather that a darkworker is self-love based, while a lightworker is world-love based. Both need the earth to survive, so i dont believe one will cause more damage than the other or one will help earth more than the other. Both of them have a strong urge.

[nvictor]

I used to think like you. Not anymore.

I think "love", "world-love based", and "self-love" are themselves fear-based thinking. So, let me explain.

Fear can be justified as a cause of love, but love cannot. Let's go back to nature [I told you, I'm willing to go back to caveman age ]. Does anyone know the french quote "La nature a horreur du vide", meaning nature hardly stand emptiness [excuse my poor translation though]? We as living creatures can't live alone [fear], so we must express ourself to other living creatures, interact with them in many way [relationships]. And the best interaction possible is love.

Think about it. We have evolved a lot; fear has been passed generations to generations. And there are many many way to experience fear. One of the way is the cause of love. Go ask any psychotherapist if feeling of loneliness is not the principal cause of hate. I thought love and fear were equal force; I was wrong. Fear is more powerful.

I have thought of not feeling love anymore, but you know what happened? The thoughts of being an alone, useless, unloved creature make me recognize the power of fear.

See that. When you choose not to feeling anything, you feel fear

My new belief is that, when you have experienced extreme fear, you also know unconditional love, because fear is more than love after all.

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

nvictor, you are very coherent in your belief system, and I tink you make some good points.

However, I don't think fear is REALLY more powerful than love. Let me explain :

Based on what i read, fear based thinking makes you act AGAINST what you fear i.e. against a "negative" outcome.
Example : you wrote :"We as living creatures can't live alone [fear], so we must express ourself to other living creatures, interact with them in many way [relationships]."
Here relationships are a means of NOT being alone. And the best way for that, as you explain, is to love (which as you say is in this case a consequence of fear).
negative + negative = positive.

Love based thinking would act for a "positive" outcome. The result is the same from an external point of vue.
Let's take the same example of relationships : a love based thinking person would interact with other people because he/she loves them, and maybe also because he/she WANTS to interact with them. It is a positive reason, there is no "NOT TO" or "DON'T WANT TO" in their motivation, but that is probably difficult to believe if you have a fear-based thinking.
Positive + positive = positive.

As we can see it all comes down to the belief about why we act the way we act. Is it to prevent us from negative outcomes and from pain (fear), or is it because we want to build, to create, to have some positive things happening (love).

The end result is the same.

ps : I am trying to improve my English

[Lychee]

You can argue the same points you made but from a love perspective. Love is a positive force and fear is a negative force. It all depends on what side you want to be on.

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by nvictor

I used to think like you. Not anymore.

I think "love", "world-love based", and "self-love" are themselves fear-based thinking. So, let me explain.

Fear can be justified as a cause of love, but love cannot. Let's go back to nature [I told you, I'm willing to go back to caveman age ]. Does anyone know the french quote "La nature a horreur du vide", meaning nature hardly stand emptiness [excuse my poor translation though]? We as living creatures can't live alone [fear], so we must express ourself to other living creatures, interact with them in many way [relationships]. And the best interaction possible is love.

Think about it. We have evolved a lot; fear has been passed generations to generations. And there are many many way to experience fear. One of the way is the cause of love. Go ask any psychotherapist if feeling of loneliness is not the principal cause of hate. I thought love and fear were equal force; I was wrong. Fear is more powerful.

I have thought of not feeling love anymore, but you know what happened? The thoughts of being an alone, useless, unloved creature make me recognize the power of fear.

See that. When you choose not to feeling anything, you feel fear

My new belief is that, when you have experienced extreme fear, you also know unconditional love, because fear is more than love after all.

I think if you come from fear it is almost impossible (tho still possible) to understand what i am talking about. I am not afraid of being alone or anything like that. If i end up the last person on the planet, i still have nothing to fear. I would get a whole new experince.

You sound a lot like Niccolo Machiavelli. He thought fear was much better then love. People will act out of fear. While his ideas can be true, it only works on people who dont understand unconditional love.

The only way i can think to explain this is this.. Love transends fear, when you die, your fears are gone, but the people who love you, remember. Fear causes people to act out against you instead of ralling on your side. Fear may work on the people who are at lower levels of contiousness becuase they know nothing else, but people at lower levels are often pawns for people at high levels (ok throw things at me here, i am simply saying that people at higher levels can understand what makes people at lower levels tick because they have been there. Because that, if you use fear, you can minipulate them very easy).
Fear is a choice. You chose to bow to it, or to fight it. Love is just always there. You find it in people, animals, trees, the earth, everything.

While you look at the earth and say things like "If we ruin the earth, we will all die" and come out of fear, you can try to help the earth that way.
Or you can look at it like i do. "I love the earth and dont want it to be ruined." I dont fear it happening, i simply dont want it to because i love it. Just as one might love their best friend. You can fear they will die and leave you. Or you can enjoy every moment and have all the memories and simply love them for being here now, and do what you can to prolong the experince.

Originally Posted by Lychee

You can argue the same points you made but from a love perspective. Love is a positive force and fear is a negative force. It all depends on what side you want to be on.

exactly.


Adrienne

[Theo77]

I like this tread.

I don't totally know if I am a dark worker or if I want to polarize as one. I had a dark worker trial for 30 days in which I really learned about myself.

I'll say this though, saying Lightworkers are destroying the Earth is not too far from the truth.

I live in Madison Wisconsin. Its a really progressive city. The lakes here are polluted as hell. Having clean water and making sure everyone has health care and a warm place to live, education, culture etc. Seems like it goes together, but really its at cross purposes.

Because really trying to make sure absolutely no one has to ever suffer, makes people really flourish and over populate the world and pollute everything.

Probably a harsh military dictator, that kept most people poor and fought lots of wars would have a better effect on the environment.

I know it sounds extreme, but that doesn't mean there is not some truth to it.

For example, the Caspian Tiger may be coming back and increasing in number on the Border of Turkey and Iraq because the Kurds and the Turks are fighting there and everyone is afraid to hunt.

Another example is Spain, has had a screwed up political history and has been a poor country and so actually has more wildlife. The rest of Europe is like this Democratic socialist Utopia and all the forests and wildlife are practically gone.

[Theo77]

So could I lightworker say "I love the Earth and would like to the see the human population reduced by 2/3 rds?"

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by Theo77

So could I lightworker say "I love the Earth and would like to the see the human population reduced by 2/3 rds?"

yes, not out of fear tho or wanting more natral resourses for myself. I want the world population under 1 billion. So i want even a more drastic cut then you do.

I see it like this. I love the earth and the earth can not support 6 billion people. I love everyone. Since the earth can not supply 6 billion people with food, water, and acceptable (good) living conditions, i dont want people suffering. Now, do i dont think we should just line up 5 billion people and kill them? no. I think the world needs to make an effort to cut down the population.

I dont like laws that stops people from having kids (like red china). I dont like controling people.
The US, canada, and many 1st world contries over in Europe actually have been eduacated enough that the we have a negitive growth rate (or perhaps people are too self envolved to have kids, which is fine by me). Now many of these counties actually have a postive rate because of immigration.

So yes, a lightworker can say, we need to reduce population that is good for everyone and good for animals and good for the earth.

Adrienne

[Theo77]

It not just the population, its the footprint too, though. Western Nations, especially the US use a lot of resources even if they don't have kids.

Plus I mean anyone can wish things. I guess you can wish things out of love. I don't know if it will accomplish anything.

I am thinking if a Strong Leader came along and made a lot of the changes that need to be made, this leader would probably be a dictator and be seen as a dark worker.

What it comes down to in my opinion are all these forces struggling together and out of the struggle comes evolution.

I think all light or all dark is unbalanced.

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

Originally Posted by Theo77

Because really trying to make sure absolutely no one has to ever suffer, makes people really flourish and over populate the world and pollute everything.

To me this is more dumb lovey-dovey than lightworking. Making sure absolutely no one has to ever suffer is helping no one. Suffering often results in a lesson learned.

Originally Posted by Theo77

Another example is Spain, has had a screwed up political history and has been a poor country and so actually has more wildlife. The rest of Europe is like this Democratic socialist Utopia and all the forests and wildlife are practically gone.

Democratic socialist Utopia does not equal lightworking either, it is just a political system that is not really better in itself than anyother political system. We can use this system in a darkworker or lightworker way. The political leaders are often darkworkers anyway, so I'd even say it is more darkworkey nowadays.

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

Originally Posted by Adrienne

I want the world population under 1 billion.

the earth can not support 6 billion people.

Well, I'd say if we shared more the natural resources it could be easily possible. I am not a specialist though. I'd say there IS a challenge to face with the population growth, but it is possible to face it with success.

Originally Posted by Adrienne

The US, canada, and many 1st world contries over in Europe actually have been eduacated enough that the we have a negitive growth rate (or perhaps people are too self envolved to have kids, which is fine by me).

Maybe it is my personnal internal resistance, but I find this statement completely incorrect. Saying this to someone of a poor country who comes from a large family, I guess this person would even find this statement very arrogant.
In the USA and Europe, people use maybe 50 times as much water, food, energie as in poor countries. They are the real cause of pollution, and the model of societies they live in, if it is duplicated in the poor countries in the years to come (as it seems it is going to be), will be the cause of the overpopulation being a problem. I don't think they are really more self evolved than the people in anyother country.

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

Originally Posted by Theo77

I am thinking if a Strong Leader came along and made a lot of the changes that need to be made, this leader would probably be a dictator and be seen as a dark worker.

I agree with you. I even think he would really be a darkworker. My idea of the lightworker is someone who SHOWS the light, and then let people decide for themselves. If I think about famous lightworkers, say Jesus or Gandhi, they taught people and showed the example, that's it. Lightworkers do not try to interfere with any one's free will, even if it does not seem "safe" for the planet or for their own life. (Remember that lightworkers feel 100% safe anyway)

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by Theo77

It not just the population, its the footprint too, though. Western Nations, especially the US use a lot of resources even if they don't have kids.

Plus I mean anyone can wish things. I guess you can wish things out of love. I don't know if it will accomplish anything.

I am thinking if a Strong Leader came along and made a lot of the changes that need to be made, this leader would probably be a dictator and be seen as a dark worker.

What it comes down to in my opinion are all these forces struggling together and out of the struggle comes evolution.

I think all light or all dark is unbalanced.

I agree that the US and most (if not all) 1st world countries use far more then there share of resources.

I disagree with the idea that lightworkers sit around and wish for a better world without doing anything to back it up. I am working hard to change the world as are many other lightworkers.

Look at the profound influence Gandhi had. He did not just sit around and wish. Neither do i.

Adrienne