Shutting Down the Forums (Blog)

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

Concerning transcending...Often people will come to a forum in a vulnerable state because they have found they need help or don't know how to transcend or help themselves out of a serious situation in their real life. I never could relate to that, especially those who would come on saying they were suicidal. I've been suicidal and when I was, the last thing I would ever do would be to go onto a forum to discuss it. But if people do that, if they are reaching for help and think they can get help that way, then...it seems quite awful and cruel to attack someone who is already about as low as a person can possibly ever get in life.

When someone is that low, you don't talk about transcending--well, you can, but it would be as useful as throwing a life preserver to a drowning person with no arms. And if you start regurgitating the usual "100% responsibility" or "being at cause" stuff which became the hallmark of this forum, you might as well just push the drowning guy under. That just gives them more fodder for self-pity and guilt. It's just their state of mind.

I understand. I probably should have been more clear. When people push my buttons, I consider it an opportunity to clean up my own buttons. That's what it means to me by "taking responsibility".

But I understand what you're saying. I was once suicidal, myself, and although that was some time before I found this forum, the boards here would be the last place I would have visited in that state, as "personal development" would simply have been the last thing on my mind.

No wonder they left to make their own private forum; they must not have liked being forced to be considerate. That's good now, though, we can all separate and be with the kind of people we like.

Actually, I don't think that was ever a problem with those who went over to PD4U. The creation of that was, apparently, due to some folks here who simply wanted to create an environment more conducive to what they considered beneficial to their own growth. It was also apparently created by Lost My Map some months before Steve's directive or James' and Reefs' banning.

[Elemental]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

And if you start regurgitating the usual "100% responsibility" or "being at cause" stuff which became the hallmark of this forum, you might as well just push the drowning guy under.

I find it amusing that the "100% responsibility" crowd failed to take any responsibility in this manner, blaming Steve publicly (and I can start quoting but I won't) instead of looking at their own actions as well. Of course, I can't generalize for every person in that group but that appeared to be their overall sentiment.

[st33med]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

Really?
See how Steve has changed since 2006
No wonder they left to make their own private forum; they must not have liked being forced to be considerate. That's good now, though, we can all separate and be with the kind of people we like.

I don't feel it's considerate of him to ban Angela and others who 'snuck' behind him and later troll ban some of them. I don't think it's considerate to give a few day notice to shut down the forums. And it seems like there is a lot of spin by others to make Angela, a helpful person who has contributed much to this forum, and others like Mariana Trench into someone who wants to domineer a forum and take it over. That was no one's intent.

Steve has changed, but I don't think it's about being more considerate to how people feel.

I'm just putting out my viewpoint here. You may not agree with me, and especially not agree about Angela. I love you, and I hope you can see that we didn't mean to cause ANY harm to this forum or Steve in the first place. A lot of people are angry and have reacted out of anger in a few ways I wouldn't agree with, but the forum wasn't formed directly to harm Steve or anyone else.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by Elemental

I find it amusing that the "100% responsibility" crowd failed to take any responsibility in this manner, blaming Steve publicly (and I can start quoting but I won't) instead of looking at their own actions as well. Of course, I can't generalize for every person in that group but that appeared to be their overall sentiment.

I took responsibility for everything.

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

*raises hand* This was all my fault. My bad, guys.

Sorry, guys. Must have been some LoA growing pains.

[st33med]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

Sorry, guys. Must have been some LoA growing pains.

Or you farted.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by st33med

Or you farted.

That must have been it. It was a really explosive one, and suddenly the whole forum was in ruins.

I'll have to remember charcoal tabs next time I'm manifesting a forum.

[st33med]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

That must have been it. It was a really explosive one, and suddenly the whole forum was in ruins.

I'll have to remember charcoal tabs next time I'm manifesting a forum.

You have GOT to see a doctor for that!

[MagicalRealist]

Originally Posted by Mounds

I'm just gonna go ahead and throw this out there: there was never anyone dominating this place.

I've had A LOT of dissenting opinions directed at me in my time of posting and many of them came from active members. All that really meant to me was that they had a different opinion.

And how does someone dominate the forum anyway? What's the criteria there...?

Is it...

... a bigger friends list?
... a higher post count?
... more people agreeing with the other person?
... being a mod vs a regular member?
... having a bigger rep bar?

Maybe we can still explore that if you're interested.

-Tim

On any forum, there will be members who simply put far more energy into it than the great majority of posters, and they do come to dominate, setting the tone for the forum as a whole. I've seen it time and again, on dozens of forums. It's no different here.

Usually, they're the extroverts (plus a few socially adept introverts). They love meeting new people, making new friendships, and talking about the things that interest them. They're often strong personalities who aren't afraid of sharing their opinions. When they're on online forums, they quickly develop relationships with other, like-minded forum members, and those friendships go beyond the confines of the forum itself. And they post a lot, because they're usually high-energy people who have no trouble figuring out what to say.

So that small, highly-active, highly-connected group will come to dominate any forum, simply through the sheer volume of their posts, their connectedness to each other, and their commitment to being part of that forum (that's why they often end up as mods). They don't plan to dominate the forum or turn it into their social club, but they do.

And the overall tone of the forum will match the overall tone of that group, for better and for worse. If you're not in synch with the dominant group and their way of communicating (in this case, they tend(ed) to be very blunt and at-cause), then yes, it's easy to feel alienated. It's easy to feel like you're not being heard or taken seriously. It's not their intention to shut down conversations, or make people feel unwelcome, but given the way they set the tone for the community and seem to be in every thread and constantly talking to each other? Yeah, some new, less-active, less-confident posters, or those who don't match their energy, are going to feel devalued, left out, or trampled.

I've been on forums where the dominant tone was to handle everyone with kid gloves, never state an opposing point of view without swaddling it in pre-emptive apologies, never call-out liars or chronic pity-partiers, and otherwise walk on eggshells lest you cause offense. Some people want, need, and love that, but for me, those forums are horrible places--I can't stay. The same goes for forums where the dominant tone is that we're all struggling, fighting a terrible battle--I had to leave a forum for people whose cats have kidney disease for precisely that reason.

But that I disliked the dominant tone of those forums, kept stepping on toes, and didn't feel I fit in didn't make them wrong; it just made them wrong for me. My own unhappiness wasn't an indictment against the dominant group of posters; it was a signal to go somewhere else, somewhere more to my liking. As someone who tries to be at-cause in her own life, I don't spend time resenting a forum and its "culture" for not being what I want it to be; I go find a group that is. And if said group doesn't exist? Then it's up to me to create it.

(Okay--the cats are howling to be fed, so I'll just leave it at that.)

[Harmonium]

I'm Pavlucinating harder right now than that time I ate some mysterious dried mushrooms!

[MagicalRealist]

Whoa, dudes--I am "absolutely unstoppable" now? Awesome!

[sensualspirit]

Polyamory has NOTHING to do with sex btw. It's called love.


Michelle

Originally Posted by Harmonium

I guess living life as a dream and having polymorous sex while eating your 100% raw vegan diet and simultaneously blogging about it like the star of your own sitcom must be hard.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by sensualspirit

Polyamory has NOTHING to do with sex btw. It's called love.


Michelle

Love has nothing to do with sex? EVERYTHING has something to do with sex. Demonizing sex and separating it from love is the bigger issue. I'm really not sure what polyamorists hope to accomplish by talking like celibate prudes.

[Harmonium]

Originally Posted by sensualspirit

Polyamory has NOTHING to do with sex btw. It's called love.


Michelle

I might respectfully disagree but

NOTHING MAKES SENSE ANYMORE

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by Beingist

I understand. I probably should have been more clear. When people push my buttons, I consider it an opportunity to clean up my own buttons. That's what it means to me by "taking responsibility".

I know, I understood you. I wasn't speaking about you or even me, but about many people I have seen come here with serious emotional difficulties, posted and I feel got "shamed" or shouted away by the dominating voice. Several of those wrote with me in pm after seeing some post I had made in their defense, so I know what they were feeling. They are gone, so they aren't represented here now, but I am saying on their behalf, they tried to join this forum and left soon after their first posts because they found it inhospitable.

And isn't it interesting how once you speak out about something against the dominating voices, all of a sudden people who agree with you start coming out of the woodwork and contacting you to voice their support and tell you that they shared your experience?

@St33med: There are apparently many people who agree with me. Maybe they are the silent majority and maybe the people who were helped are relatively few, and were most likely people who somehow got into the good graces of the dominating voices.

Angela and almost everything she said to me under the pretense of help had a destructive effect on me and my progress, and I'm saying this in public. How many left this forum before even getting started because of feeling attacked and how many have remained silent and muffled their activity to avoid going against the grain? We'll never know.

For the record, I don't know anything about the reasons for or the formation of the new forum, so I don't claim anything about that. But I have read the rules there and they seem very exclusive and controlling. However, I thought I read somewhere on here that that forum was made because the dominant voices on this forum were displeased with this one, and particularly with the recent crack-down on moderating. It's like the clique dominating this forum just took their clique into their own little exclusive forum and invited the people they wanted to it. And there may be nothing wrong with that, but it certainly proves beyond any doubt that there was a clique here that was somehow excluding the majority of the forum members from their graces.

And I do think Steve must have become more compassionate (nevermind considerate), because I remember how I felt when I arrived at this forum back in 2006-07 and he was a lot different then. But the perspective you have on his change depends entirely on where you've been standing all this time. Meanwhile, the dominating voice on this site has remained exactly the same throughout all these years, and now has formed its own forum so that it may enjoy its own company exclusively and ensure that it can remain exactly the same for years to come.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

I know, I understood you. I wasn't speaking about you or even me, but about many people I have seen come here with serious emotional difficulties, posted and I feel got "shamed" or shouted away by the dominating voice. Several of those wrote with me in pm after seeing some post I had made in their defense, so I know what they were feeling. They are gone, so they aren't represented here now, but I am saying on their behalf, they tried to join this forum and left soon after their first posts because they found it inhospitable.

And isn't it interesting how once you speak out about something against the dominating voices, all of a sudden people who agree with you start coming out of the woodwork and contacting you to voice their support and tell you that they shared your experience?

@St33med: There are apparently many people who agree with me. Maybe they are the silent majority and maybe the people who were helped are relatively few, and were most likely people who somehow got into the good graces of the dominating voices.

Angela and almost everything she said to me under the pretense of help had a destructive effect on me and my progress, and I'm saying this in public. How many left this forum before even getting started because of feeling attacked and how many have remained silent and muffled their activity to avoid going against the grain? We'll never know.

How long have you been speaking out against Angela?

[Manasarovar]

Steve's blog and forum changed my life. I don't know what my life would be like without either of them. So for that, Thank you, Steve.

I wish things here ended differently(so many hurt feelings ) and it's definitely sad to see this forum go. But everything has to end some day. Just didn't expect it to end so soon.
Goodbye, all you wonderful folks!!

<3

[mikej]

I'm really going to miss this place and I'm grateful to Steve for creating it.

It's a shame that people have been hurt by what's happened, some of whom I became rather fond of. Hopefully, something good will come from all of this.

Peace and good luck to everyone.

[Andrew Gubb]

And isn't it interesting how once you speak out about something against the dominating voices, all of a sudden people who agree with you start coming out of the woodwork and contacting you to voice their support and tell you that they shared your experience?

I'm one of these guys.

I love Angela but I don't like her style in many ways. I felt uncomfortable with it, and I think other people did too. I told her this so I can say it here. Apart from that I don't want to talk behind her back.

I do believe there was a certain dominating vibe in the forum. If you couldn't take it, you had to go somewhere else. I'm a bit like Bliss Sage, though I can bring out a warrior vibe when I need to, which let me adapt a bit better to the forum. There were times when I was feeling vulnerable and I didn't want a certain style of communication or a certain sort of attempt to "help" me. I think those things were well intentioned, perhaps a bit unconscious, but well intentioned. However, they were not what we needed. Really disrespectful, boundary-wise.

Another person I didn't quite vibe with was James81. I never told him this (I was going to but the opportunity slipped me) but I often felt very patronised by the things he said to me. When he was banned a bit before the End of The World debacle I actually felt kind of relieved.

Like I'd open up about my issues or whatever and he'd come in with this guru vibe and it'd be rubbing it in my face that I had an issue or whatever (and of course he didn't have anything he needed to examine about himself, at least I'd never seen him write about anything like that).

Perhaps we should have had a rule that you're not allowed to comment about other people's faults unless you've spent a good amount of time on the forum commenting about your own faults first. Would have been a good rule for several specific forum posters to follow.

[airplus]

Originally Posted by AllTogetherNow

well i know *I* will - since i've only been a member a few weeks, there's years of stuff here that i'd still LOVE to read through, and which i know will be immensely useful and valuable to me.

I WILL definietly will!!!

Please Steve, let them to be read only!!

Why?

- it will not consume time or energies from you or anybody else.

- the massive amount of info, advice, tips, experiences, viewpoints, etc will not be lost, instead, it will be available to all.

Please Steve, can you let them be read only? as some kind of archive?

Thanks!

[freddy]

Freddy’s last post.
Good morning, and if I don’t see you later good evening, good afternoon, and good night.
Everyone have a great 2012. I’m sorry, Thank you, I love you.

[munish]

Originally Posted by Savage

I'd recommend reading Steve Jobs' bio. I think it will give you a deeper understanding of recent events. Compared to him, I'm pretty tame though.

He fired all the members of the Executive Committee when he rejoined Apple as the CEO.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by munish

He fired all the members of the Executive Committee when he rejoined Apple as the CEO.

Did he really?

Jobs: "I WIN. Now all of you get the hell out."

[roxyruby]

I just want to say to steve

THANK YOU FOR MAKING AND RUNNING THE FORUM

*HUGS*

[munish]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

Did he really?

Jobs: "I WIN. Now all of you get the hell out."

He said that,Decline happened at MS when Ballmer took over and now they have become Irrelevant .

Sculley was responsible for decline at Apple , but they were lucky and rebound happened.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

Oh my god I just realized something, Steve you can't shut the forums down, what if nicbrahms comes back? SUCH AN INTRIGUING UNSOLVED MYSTERY.
.

she might get an email if someone PMs here. Which I will do.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

she might get an email if someone PMs here. Which I will do.

opps - she is banned ,didn't know that.

[Mounds]

Bliss Sage,

I must apologize, as I had a bout of temporary insanity. Regardless of whether or not I had the same feelings as you, they're real to you. With that said, is there anything positive that can come out of all of this?

One thing that comes to mind for me is...

... learning to say, "No thanks, this doesn't work for me". There were a couple of people on the boards who were really good at this. Seth seems to come to mind. If the convo went in a direction that didn't work for him, he'd say it and no longer engage that person.

Setting a boundary is a powerful thing. I highly recommend it!

Merry Christmas!

-Tim

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

I agree with Steve's decision and his reasoning for closing down the forums. We realize it's a valuable place for so many people, and I hope everyone will find and make connections in their offline world and stay in touch with friends they've made online.

people have asked me if I am willing to host the forums on my site, but I am not. It was a headache for Steve and he had the technical expertise to maintain the site. I do not, nor would I want to learn.

I myself derived a great deal of value from the forum. I've met many friends here that have become friends offline. We will find new ways to stay in touch. You can friend me on facebook if you like, and don't forget that Steve still posts on Google+.

And remember that every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. Go forth boldly. Seek out those around you who are into conscious growth. Learn and practice growth together.

Erin, Steve,

'Tis Christmas morning ! How 'bout giving us a wonderful present of keeping these forums open....as non-interactive archives ?

There's so much here that would be a precious gift that keeps on giving, don't you think?

Thanks much for what you have done here....and what can still be accomplished by leaving them online as non-interactive archives....

....to enjoy from this day forward and in each one of all the Happy New Years to come.

Again Thanks for this wonderful space.

[Harmonium]

later everyone



happy trails...

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Harmonium

later everyone



happy trails...

Is that like Shoop Da Woop, only with lots of saliva?