Testing to Failure (Blog)

[Steve Pavlina]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Testing to Failure

[theshot92]

Steve,
This post echos (or complements) a new book that I just read, "Mindset" by Carol Dweck. It talks about a Growth vs. Fixed Mindset and your post seems to have the underlying goal to persuade people to move from a Fixed (no trying) mindset to a Growth mindset where failures are not a reflection of your talent but rather lessons that will help you do better the next time. If you haven't read it yet, I highly recommend it.

Also, based on the "Stage Time" quote, I assume that you have heard Darren LaCroix, the 2001 World Champion of Public Speaking, give his talk about how he won. (Another great example of the Growth mindset!)

Dave Wheeler
a fellow Toastmaster

[John Wesley]

Nice post. I think the fear of failure is one of the greatest things that generally holds us back. It's so easy to make up excuses to stay in our safe little bubbles and pretend we like it that way. This was a good reminder of the educational benefits of failure and in most cases the relatively low risk.

[Erock]

I agree with the post of above. Fear of failure is a terrible demon that needs to conquered. You only know if you try. I need to implement this is in a few areas of my life.

Erock

[gc3833]

This is a timely post. My partner and I just got off the phone to discuss testing some new ideas with our business.

In the past, I didn't do a good enough job when I would test a new idea, meaning I didn't effectively track my results to find out what caused my success (or failure.)

So now I make sure that any change I make with my website ,or any other aspect of my business, I track so I know what the true result is, so I can do more of it or stop it.

Thanks for the great post!

Greg

[Iksander]

Cool post Steve, I studied Kempo for around 12 years - shifting through the two major associations (IKKA, now AKKA).

Are you studying in the Tracy school system?


Simulations are also VERY useful for other applications - when I was working on a ranch and building structures I used the method heavily for a number of successful projects.

It also works great for solving interesting intellectual questions such as this one: (a puzzle a mentor once asked me to solve)

"What is the configuration of a three dimensional solid that would project the two dimensional 'triquetria' symbol if a light were shone on it (excluding the same two dimensional shape but extruded to make it three dimensional)."


Cool post.

[Hari.c]

Great Post Steve.
I used to think that it's always wise to be in safer side without taking any risk.
Fear of failure was the only concern.
I am now feeling that's absolutely wrong.
I will start experimenting now on...once again thanks for a simple yet great post.

[wolfgang]

Once I was skiing and was falling a lot and getting angry. Then my friend said "It's cool you are falling because that means you are challengeing yourself and you will get better." That allowed me to not take falling as a failure.

So this post has the similar message. Or I'm adding abit - that if you do go to the point of failure it doesn't mean you have failed, it actually can mean you are getting better and testing or playing at the very edge of the level of your current expertise.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by John Wesley

Nice post. I think the fear of failure is one of the greatest things that generally holds us back. It's so easy to make up excuses to stay in our safe little bubbles and pretend we like it that way. This was a good reminder of the educational benefits of failure and in most cases the relatively low risk.

In my case the fear of failure is fear of killing a dream. F.eks. I have this dream of creating one or more website(s) that would allow me to travel the world and work from anywhere. I think the reason I haven't yet started on the sites (although I'm costantly scribbling down new ideas for websites) is fear of trying and failing and thus no longer being able to daydream about globetrotting.

[Paul C]

This post is very timely (hmm) because I've been contemplating a few ideas that I would like to try out, this advice being just one more push to do them. Fear of failure can actually appear very shallow when looked at from a different perspective (or many perspectives).

Thank you, great post.

[Sunnybayes]

love it , but I suspect that the small possibility of the spectacular failure would still hold people back.

Unless you somehow manage a truly spectacular failure (a rare occurrence), your stumble will be forgiven and forgotten.

It seems like the worst possible scenario is the one that they would be likely to imagine (or I could be wrong about that.) What would your advice be about that?

[The Wise Turtle]

The word failure has such negative connotations. But really, failure is usually just a success that you didn't expect. Or, perhaps, it's a success you did expect, but didn't want to admit you expected... :-)

Like Wolfgang said, falling isn't a failure when learning to ski, or walk. Falling is a success in that your body does what it's supposed to do when confronted with realities like gravity and imbalance. A successful fall gives your body the information it needs to work with gravity and balance so that in the future you can ski, or walk, more effectively. So, another way to think about "failure" is that it's successful data collection.

And, speaking of data, I like to picture Commander Data, of Star Trek, saying, "Interesting..." and cocking his head like an inquisitive dog, when something doesn't go as planned. But then again I'm a geek, so maybe that won't work for everyone :-)

I also like the quote that was up on the wall on the PBS show Design Squad, "Fail fast - succeed sooner" which goes really well with the less vegetarian saying of "Don't put all your eggs in one basket." It makes more sense to invest small amounts of resources in a variety of small plans, at least until one or more of them stand out as more solid investments.

Peace, Love, and Bicycles,
Turtle

P.S. What are you afraid of?

[ArthurHung]

Originally Posted by The Wise Turtle

The word failure has such negative connotations.

That's a good point. I myself while reading the post kept thinking "Testing Until Battle Scars". That way of thinking was inspired by:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...-battle-scars/

That's how I view failure, just another battle scar; not something to be proud of but a proof of sorts relating to strength and experience.

[Sunnybayes]

Originally Posted by The Wise Turtle

And, speaking of data, I like to picture Commander Data, of Star Trek, saying, "Interesting..." and cocking his head like an inquisitive dog, when something doesn't go as planned.

ahh... that brings me back

[ahimel]

*sigh* So easy to say, so difficult to implement.

[Parthon]

Originally Posted by Thor

In my case the fear of failure is fear of killing a dream. F.eks. I have this dream of creating one or more website(s) that would allow me to travel the world and work from anywhere. I think the reason I haven't yet started on the sites (although I'm costantly scribbling down new ideas for websites) is fear of trying and failing and thus no longer being able to daydream about globetrotting.

I've been living in this world a lot too, but reading this post I realised that it would be 100 times better to be globetrotting rather than dream about it. If you see globetrotting as a solid goal, and say "Yes I will have it." then it will come about.

Like the blog said, failure isn't the end, it's just means you reached too far at your current level. Then it's time to improve and reach the next level. It's better to reach too far and come short than never reach far enough. And often you find you can reach furthur than you thought.

Don't kill your dreams just because you fail. Set them as a real goal and find a way.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by ahimel

*sigh* So easy to say, so difficult to implement.

Difficult is the fun part -- it's how we challenge ourselves and grow. Easy is boring and pointless.

[ahimel]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Difficult is the fun part -- it's how we challenge ourselves and grow. Easy is boring and pointless.

Fair enough.

[BettyBoo]

Great post Steve!

I love your system of try and error, and I'm trying to implement it as much as I can, because I also take the easier way a lot of times, meaning not doing it at all 'cause it will probably not work out.

This is also what I think separates you from the other motivational writers. The fact that you like to "throw people in fire", in stead of "meditation of the fire in a quiet room" :-)

This kind of advice blogs are my personal favorites.

[stellabeam]

I am a "risk taker" and have always been. As a result of repeated failures, my self esteem has suffered and I have felt suicidal at times. I find that in order to continue to "test to failure" I have to pay more attention to my state of mind, my physical health and whatever else I can do to take care of my self esteem.

[The Wise Turtle]

Stellabeam, you might want to check out a book (and general idea) called Flow. It's all about how to find just the right balance between challange and comfort so that you make the most of your life and find real health and happiness. The basic idea is that in taking action, you don't want to be too bored and you don't want to be too overwhelmed. You want a nice middle ground where things just flow smoothly...



Paying attention to your physical, mental, and emotional health is indeed a great way to do it! If something you're doing makes you feel worse, there's a good chance that it's not such a great idea. Though it's also possible that you're getting incorrect feedback, from yourself, or others, that only makes it seem like an idea is bad. So maybe next time something goes wrong, see what good things you might be able to get out of it. Oftentimes there's more to things than you originally thought... (Even depression can be useful in giving you more time to focus on the really important things, rather than the superficial and illusionary crap that mainstream media tries to get us all to buy into :-)

Peace, love, and bicycles!
-Turtle

[spiritualinquiry]

Testing to failure is necessary to take us out of belief systems that turn into self-fulfilling prophecies. As an easy example, if you observe that nobody likes you, then you won't bother talking to people or helping them out. That will reinforce the "fact" that nobody likes you. On the other hand, if you convince yourself that everybody likes you, then you may suddenly discover your circle of friends growing rapidly. My point is that in both of these cases, what you believe is correct. Hence logic cannot change that belief system. It can only be changed by trying different ideas and seeing what happens.

[stellabeam]

Thankyou Turtle,
I just checked in for my inspiration hit and got your kind response. Will definately check it out!