About the forum - rep

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I’m ok with this. I liked Aelle’s previous post, especially the point on rewarding people based on behaviours rather than opinions. There is one drawback I can see though. We can setup standards for why and how to use rep, but unless there is some form of moderation or enforcement, people will mostly likely just use it the way they want to. And so, if we want a ‘serious’ system, we are going to have to devote more moderator time in order to reinforce the standards of that system. If someone reported James’ behaviour (if they haven’t already) as misuse of the rep system, mods would actually have to investigate the claim in order to decide whether a warning ought to be given. That might seem easy (or not?) using this example, but what about more nuanced examples where it is not as obvious? Should moderators being doing this for us? Should we as individuals try to reconcile our differences with other forums members ourselves? I.E I recently was in a thread where people were throwing accusations at each other, ‘You are rude!, ‘You are not listening! This is your fault! You derailed this thread!’. Some of us eventually reconciled our previous differences and attitudes towards the other in order to reach, what was in my mind, a half-satisfactory closure. If you invite users to rep other users for behaviour and also invite them to report for misuse, how much of the moderators time are we going to take up? On a large forum like this, it is a feasible thing to do?

I'd like to hear a mod's perspective on this.

The only reason I'm now open to the idea of disabling negative rep is that it's annoying and tiresome to wade through all the rep given out in threads when we get complaints about it. We don't know who repped whom, and for what, so we have to open up everybody's accounts separately and look at all the rep to see what's going on. It's also confusing because it's not like it's threaded, so we have to check all the timestamps to see what kind of retaliation is happening. Is it tit-for-tat or somebody just unleashing? etc.

I also don't like looking at people's rep, because people post personal messages in there. It's not like user profile messages, which everybody knows that everybody can see. For me, looking at rep feels akin to reading somebody's private messages (which we can't do).

[James81]

It seems like some peeps are wanting the positive rep to mean something legit without opening up to the possibility to risk of receiving a neg rep.


As it stands right now, I think the rep here (as well as that big bar under my username) is essentially worthless and meaningless. I felt more pride back when I had four squares because each and evry one of those squares was a rep for an awesome post I made.

Now, its just a numbers game. If I spread rep to 20 people, I can rep someone I want to rep more thban once. Or if I go into the f&r forum, I can get all the rep I want by merely asking for it.

I personally preferred the system the way it was before it was rendered meaningless, but I have to admit, its also a bunch of fun in this meaningless system.

[Moriarty]

Originally Posted by James81

It seems like some peeps are wanting the positive rep to mean something legit without opening up to the possibility to risk of receiving a neg rep.


As it stands right now, I think the rep here (as well as that big bar under my username) is essentially worthless and meaningless. I felt more pride back when I had four squares because each and evry one of those squares was a rep for an awesome post I made.

Now, its just a numbers game. If I spread rep to 20 people, I can rep someone I want to rep more thban once. Or if I go into the f&r forum, I can get all the rep I want by merely asking for it.

I personally preferred the system the way it was before it was rendered meaningless, but I have to admit, its also a bunch of fun in this meaningless system.

Not to mention its complicated for us new members. I wasn't even aware of it till a member told me to go check my rep. This is the first forum ive ever seen something like this and i'm still confused by it.

I don't really see the point in hiding a comment away. In other forums, if you dis/like someones post, you say so out in the open. I guess the one good thing about reps is that they help keep the thread running smoother. Personally, I enjoy being out in the open with complimentary feed-back. There's always pm if wanting to expand on it.

Cheers

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by Cado

As I said above, it looks like this might be a good time to discuss what we actually want out of the rep system. We have a pretty good handle on how people see it but what should we expect from it? That's a line of reasoning I haven't seen in these particular discussions and I'm curious about where it would lead.

Rep system is just one of the features of Vbulletin. We could discuss each of the features and its merits and demerits. Does it matter? I don't think personal growth of any individual depends on such features. And don't forget, there are over 47,000 members in the forum. Is it fair to generalize for all of them based on a few opinions?

[cacheborn]

Zeph,
People can also be nasty through PM's. Are we going to disable Pm's because of that? Frankly speaking, I don't think it's such a major issue. Few members started abusing the system, that does not mean there is something wrong with the system. One can abuse PM's as well.

Cris
Do we get so many complaints about rep messages? I have not seen a single one so far. So the Mods will be overworked because of handling negative reps does not have any basis as far as I know.

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by Moriarty

cacheborn

I read the link thanks and checked out the messages left on userCP. Its not like me to be having a really, really dumb blonde moment. I just cant seem to understand all the info that comes up...or what to do with them..how or if i am to follow them through with a response..sheesh! *smacks forehead*

Do forgive me anyone who may have offered me something im supposed to respond to. No doubt it will all eventually click LOL

Moriarty,
Don't worry. For me, a positive rep is like a hug or pat on the back. You are not obliged to respond in return. If you want you can rep the person back. That's all there is to it.

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by James81

Now, its just a numbers game. If I spread rep to 20 people, I can rep someone I want to rep more thban once. Or if I go into the f&r forum, I can get all the rep I want by merely asking for it.

I personally preferred the system the way it was before it was rendered meaningless, but I have to admit, its also a bunch of fun in this meaningless system.

Does it matter? In any case reps are not real. I fail to understand why we are spending so much time and energy on a minute feature in V-bulletin.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by cacheborn

Cris
Do we get so many complaints about rep messages? I have not seen a single one so far. So the Mods will be overworked because of handling negative reps does not have any basis as far as I know.

There were some a few months back, and then there were some yesterday.

[ZephyrusX]

I don't think neg rep should be disabled. Ideally, I think we ought to have the freedom to choose how to use the rep system as we please, and ideally, I think we ought to be resolving our own problems rather than complaining to the mods, which was essentially my point. If you have the mind that the rep system 'ought' to be used to some standard, then you essentially have to enforce that standard, which would require moderation. As far as I can see (and I'm assuming), mods have been asked to look into rep misuse because some people think it is not being held to a high enough standard. If we are going to start putting higher standards onto the rep system, we are the moderators willing to moderate this new standard?

Personally, the only intervention I see as being legit is if someone blatantly left a hateful rep comment that was meant to harass the other person. But if the majority of other people want the rep system to be moderated for higher standards, I'm fine with that. I'm just concerned as to what sort of work that would entail for the moderators.

I suppose you have a point though. This may be a one time thing where people are complaining about the rep system.

Originally Posted by cacheborn

Zeph,
People can also be nasty through PM's. Are we going to disable Pm's because of that? Frankly speaking, I don't think it's such a major issue. Few members started abusing the system, that does not mean there is something wrong with the system. One can abuse PM's as well.

Cris
Do we get so many complaints about rep messages? I have not seen a single one so far. So the Mods will be overworked because of handling negative reps does not have any basis as far as I know.

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

There were some a few months back, and then there were some yesterday.

Rep misuse, yes. But did anyone complain?

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by cacheborn

Rep misuse, yes. But did anyone complain?

Yes...? I thought I posted about it -- maybe I didn't.

[cacheborn]

The abuse happens once in a blue moon. I think it's more indicative of the persons abusing it rather than a failure of a system. I am not sure if the rep system can be used to some standard. For me, it's a just another fun way of interacting with people, like poking on FB but much more innovative. (I have not used the neg rep often, just once in fact.)

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I don't think neg rep should be disabled. Ideally, I think we ought to have the freedom to choose how to use the rep system as we please, and ideally, I think we ought to be resolving our own problems rather than complaining to the mods, which was essentially my point. If you have the mind that the rep system 'ought' to be used to some standard, then you essentially have to enforce that standard, which would require moderation. As far as I can see (and I'm assuming), mods have been asked to look into rep misuse because some people think it is not being held to a high enough standard. If we are going to start putting higher standards onto the rep system, we are the moderators willing to moderate this new standard?

I suppose you have a point though. This may be a one time thing where people are complaining about the rep system.

[ZephyrusX]

I... I think we need to get innovative with neg reps. Wouldn't it look pretty to have green AND red lights for Christmas?

Originally Posted by cacheborn

The abuse happens once in a blue moon. I think it's more indicative of the persons abusing it rather than a failure of a system. I am not sure if the rep system can be used to some standard. For me, it's a just another fun way of interacting with people, like poking on FB but much more innovative. (I have not used the neg rep often, just once in fact.)

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I... I think we need to get innovative with neg reps. Wouldn't it look pretty to have green AND red lights for Christmas?

That's an idea. Wish I could rep you for it.