"Living with your parents is called childhood."

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by aelle

a lot more difficult when you have to follow a written tutorial and are missing half the tools you need, than if you have a parent to walk you through it and a well-equipped workshop.

It is, it is.

By the way, what's the deal with taking out the trash being a gendered chore?? I've never heard of that except in the US.

I'm in the US, and I've never heard that (though I was never allowed on/to handle a lawn mower, so there are some gendered chores). But where I lived, there is no trash pick up, so taking out the trash meant gathering a week or two's worth in big cans, bungee cording them to a trailer, hooking the trailer up to a truck and taking it to the dump--and it still wasn't considered that as far as I'm aware. Somehow lawn mowers got gendered and cutting down dead trees, picking up manure, cleaning the gutters and building compost bins didn't.

I was never aware changing a lightbulb was a gendered chore, either. I scratch my head at that actually.

Though, I've been cleaning out my grandparents' basement for the past week or so, which involves toting lots of heavy boxes, and since my mom and her brother are disabled, I do that. It didn't occur to me it was gendered chore until my great aunt and uncle came over--and she made her husband (in his 80s) carry something I could have saying "You'll need to be careful for your future babies"!

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

Though, I've been cleaning out my grandparents' basement for the past week or so, which involves toting lots of heavy boxes, and since my mom and her brother are disabled, I do that. It didn't occur to me it was gendered chore until my great aunt and uncle came over--and she made her husband (in his 80s) carry something I could have saying "You'll need to be careful for your future babies"!

Yeah, because, y'know, lifting boxes -now- is going to be so hard on babies you haven't conceived yet.

The logic is flawless.

[OptimistPrime]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes...we're incredibly lazy as a nation, though we like to call it "laid back" to make it seem like it's a good thing.

I suspect one needs to be laid back when living on the continent to which Mother Nature seems to have quarantined all of the most deadly animals on the planet.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by OptimistPrime

I suspect one needs to be laid back when living on the continent to which Mother Nature seems to have quarantined all of the most deadly animals on the planet.

To a certain degree yes. If you get bit it's better that you don't panic. In that respect Australians would survive getting bitten.

[OptimistPrime]

Originally Posted by elucidate

To a certain degree yes. If you get bit it's better that you don't panic. In that respect Australians would survive getting bitten.

Somebody should print that right on the cover of the Hitchhiker's Guide to Australia.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by OptimistPrime

Somebody should print that right on the cover of the Hitchhiker's Guide to Australia.

Yes..."Don't panic...drink more beer instead, you'll be right mate"

[ButterflyWoman]

The Aussie "she'll be right, mate" attitude used to frustrate the hell out of me when I first moved here (from the U.S.). It took me a few years to really get into it, but now, I can really appreciate that attitude. Sometimes, yeah, it's a cover for laziness, but a lot of the time, it's just this laid back, casual kind of way of approaching life that can be very appealing. I've learned a lot about stress management since I moved to Australia. She'll be right, mate.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by CaterpillarWoman

The Aussie "she'll be right, mate" attitude used to frustrate the hell out of me when I first moved here (from the U.S.). It took me a few years to really get into it, but now, I can really appreciate that attitude. Sometimes, yeah, it's a cover for laziness, but a lot of the time, it's just this laid back, casual kind of way of approaching life that can be very appealing. I've learned a lot about stress management since I moved to Australia. She'll be right, mate.

I remember reading this Two Cows Joke a while back, particularly finding the Italian, Australian, and New Zealand versions the most hilarious. I think if the world lived with more of a "She'll be right, mate" attitude, we'd probably have much fewer nails bitten to the quicks and a much lower rate of suicide. It's refreshing to see that people still remember that life is too short to worry so much, so we should just all have a beer instead. I wish we could apply this way of life over here in America, but people are just so hell bent on working and proving themselves successful they forget sometimes that it's ok to relax and reward yourself just for being alive and happy. We always have to have a reason to celebrate and forget that life is plenty enough to celebrate all on it's own.

I've said since I was a little girl I wanted to move to Australia. I WILL one day. I WILL.

Economic Models Explained

SOCIALISM
You have 2 cows.
You give one to your neighbour.

COMMUNISM
You have 2 cows.
The State takes both and gives you some milk.

FASCISM
You have 2 cows.
The State takes both and sells you some milk..

NAZISM
You have 2 cows.
The State takes both and shoots you.

BUREAUCRATISM
You have 2 cows.
The State takes both, shoots one, milks the other, and then
throws the milk away...

TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM
You have two cows.
You sell one and buy a bull.
Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows.
You sell them and retire on the income.

SURREALISM
You have two giraffes.
The government requires you to take harmonica lessons

AN AMERICAN CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You sell one, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows.
Later, you hire a consultant to analyse why the cow has dropped
dead.

AN ENGLISH BANK
You have two cows.
You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using
letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then
execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so
that you get all four cows back, with a tax exemption for five
cows.
The milk rights of the six cows are transferred via an
intermediary to a Cayman Island Company secretly owned by the
majority shareholder who sells the rights to all seven cows back
to your listed company.
The annual report says the company owns eight cows, with an
option on one more.
You sell one cow to buy a new president of the United States,
leaving you with nine cows.
No balance sheet provided with the release.
The public then buys your bull.

A FRENCH CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You go on strike, organise a riot, and block the roads, because
you want three cows.

A JAPANESE CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary
cow and produce twenty times the milk.
You then create a clever cow cartoon image called 'Cowkimon' and
market it worldwide.

A GERMAN CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You re-engineer them so they live for 100 years, eat once a
month, and milk themselves.

AN ITALIAN CORPORATION
You have two cows, but you don't know where they are.
You decide to have lunch.

A RUSSIAN CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You count them and learn you have five cows.
You count them again and learn you have 42 cows.
You count them again and learn you have 2 cows.
You stop counting cows and open another bottle of vodka.

A SWISS CORPORATION
You have 5000 cows. None of them belong to you.
You charge the owners for storing them.

A CHINESE CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You have 300 people milking them.
You claim that you have full employment, and high bovine
productivity.
You arrest the newsman who reported the real situation.

AN INDIAN CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You worship them.

A BRITISH CORPORATION
You have two cows.
Both are mad.

AN IRAQI CORPORATION
Everyone thinks you have lots of cows.
You tell them that you have none.
No-one believes you, so they bomb the crap out of you and invade
your country.
You still have no cows, but at least now you are part of
Democracy....

AN AUSTRALIAN CORPORATION
You have two cows.
Business seems pretty good.
You close the office and go for a few beers to celebrate.

A NEW ZEALAND CORPORATION
You have two cows.
The one on the left looks very attractive.

A SPANISH CORPORATION
You have 20,000 cows
200 of them hard work while the remaining complain and ♥♥♥♥♥.
Then another 19.800 cows are required(?) from cheaper farms.
Finally all 20,000 cows get CCC rating, but we dont care cuz we are EuroCup Champions and Antonio Banderas is spanish.

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

AN AUSTRALIAN CORPORATION
You have two cows.
Business seems pretty good.
You close the office and go for a few beers to celebrate.

Well, it is Thursday, after all, and the official start of the weekend... (You can just skate by on Friday, no worries!)

[ZephyrusX]

Hmmm....

Originally Posted by momo3bur

SURREALISM
You have two giraffes.
The government requires you to take harmonica lessons

[elucidate]

I couldn't rep you momo, but I wanted to say my grin grew exponentially from reading that.

The funny thing is, I was raised with a father who believes aussies should be more like americans in their work ethic...but he's a workaholic who doesn't know how to relax,so...

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

Hmmm....

Hehehe...I think that person may live in the same world as I do. Except I have unicorns, not giraffes. I'm much too short to ride giraffes.

Originally Posted by elucidate

I couldn't rep you momo, but I wanted to say my grin grew exponentially from reading that.

The funny thing is, I was raised with a father who believes aussies should be more like americans in their work ethic...but he's a workaholic who doesn't know how to relax,so...

Thank you! I'm so glad it made you smile! I thought it was pretty darn funny!

You know, I'm not going to lie. I was poor when I was a kid before I understood the whole work ethic thing, but right now I'm pretty priviledged so it's easy for me to say "chill and enjoy."

There are some people I know, though, who seem to have everything they need and more and in order to keep all of that, they sacrifice time with their families and half the time end up losing all of the things they're working for just because they're trying to make enough money to keep it. It's really sad sometimes.

I don't think that's only an American problem, though. I think it runs throughout the world and without a balance of chillaxers and workaholics we might be missing some important balance in the economy.

That was a completely uneducated BS hypothesis, just so you know. Just a wonky theory I've had all the sudden. "How Chillaxers and Workaholics Create Economic Balance." Must draw graph with crayons...be right back.

[ZephyrusX]

Anything graph that is drawn in crayons instantly has validity in my books.

I know people who have to work a lot seemingly just to get by as well. It makes you aware of the privilege in your life when you can just chill out and relax.

Originally Posted by momo3bur

That was a completely uneducated BS hypothesis, just so you know. Just a wonky theory I've had all the sudden. "How Chillaxers and Workaholics Create Economic Balance." Must draw graph with crayons...be right back.

[Acting Like Godot]

I'll contribute one for my country.

SINGAPORE
You have two cows.
You turn them into a tourist attraction.
All the city kids pay good money to come to see and touch the amazing, real, live cows!

-----------
and a new one for New Zealand:


NEW ZEALAND
You have two cows.
What's wrong with you?
You ought to have sheep.

[Elfwing]

Originally Posted by elucidate

From a female perspective, you are rare. There are so many guys who have had mothers who do everything for them, that they don't even do these basic things...and are therefore a nightmare to have as a partner...if you have feminist tendencies (like I do). I actually place the responsability on mothers to stop doing everything for their sons and treating them like little emperors and start encouraging self-reliance from a young age, so they are 'trained'for when they become adults and enter into real relationships with women.

Late response, but: oh man, my brother is turning into this.

My mother can be controlling, she treats us like children and gets really angry if you try to learn not to be one. She's furious I want to go to the library and insists I use her books for my schoolwork instead -- not gonna happen. She hoards the laundry so you have to raid the basket for clothes, and she gets really pissed off when you do and she'll only get angrier if I don't let her pick out my clothes (I'm nineteen years old, for Christ's sake). So I have to wait until she's gone out to rescue my clothing from the pile she keeps in the living room. She never let my brother or I do chores growing up because "you're children, you're supposed to play!" I used to ask her to buy me a road rules' book so I could learn to drive, and she constantly "forgot" to pick one up for me and she'd get angry if I said I'd go get it myself. (So I'm downloading it from the internet and when I'm ready to take the test, I'm going to brace myself. Her anger is not pretty. She sulks for weeks, and she STILL brings up things I did years ago that angered her.) When I wanted to get a job years ago she told me, "But you can't do that as a career! You deserve better!" I was *fifteen*. And I could kick myself for having listened to her.

I'm responsible for feeding and cleaning the seven ferrets we have, and I'm surprised I'm allowed to do that much.

I make my own breakfast and lunch. Half the time I'll get my own dinner, and that's the only time my mother doesn't actually act ticked off -- if I'm looking in the cupboard/fridge when she's around (the fridge is in the hallway, so if she's home I cannot avoid her seeing me do it) she will come over, act all long-suffering, and point out every single item of food there is in the fridge. Telling her I'm fine will only make her angrier. Sometimes I am so tempted to tell her, "I'm nineteen years old, I am capable of looking inside a fridge."

I hate it. My brother, though? He loves it. I have never, ever seen him cook his own food. If he wants food, all he has to do is ask my mother and she will drop everything to cook him something. He hasn't done a single chore in his lifetime and he's never asked, either. (When I was a kid I offered to help out all the time, and that just pissed my mother off.) He's seventeen years old and in his last year of high school.

I realise it's my responsibility to stop walking on eggshells around my mother and cope with her sulking so I can learn to be independent rather than a pathetic basement-dweller, but oh man, is that anger potent. The last thing I want to do is end up the way my brother's going to. My therapist is actually going to help me learn to cope with my mother's anger. I am so lucky I have a therapist. I'm actually even luckier my mother is still paying for it -- my mother hates her ever since my psych taught me how to take the train. "Why do you need to take a train?! You have us to drive you around!"

I think I'm going to lash out at her one of these days. I'm terrified I'm going to be too scared to learn independence and that I'll still be here in five years. It's my responsibility, after all, to grow up. I'm not a child anymore.

[elucidate]

Yeah, some mothers have this real need to be needed. It sounds like your mother is priming you so you never leave her because maybe she is afraid of being alone?

I have a friend whose mother does the same for her three brothers, and they are all mentally ill. I think she doesn't help the situation though as she does everything for them...in a way it's enabling them to stay unwell.

It's selfish and it's also encouraging arrested development in you and your brother. The fact that you are wanting to be more independent and take care of yourself, it's a bit funny that she isn't encouraging this in you.

You say she sulks for weeks and gets angry...wow, I'm reminded of the mother from "waterboy"

Seriously...19 years old. Legally you are an adult...and she needs to let you dress yourself.

I'm not a psychiatrist, but she sounds kinda mental...sorry. Controlling you with anger...that's not very caring and it's not in your best interests that she is doing this...it's purely her own. I keep getting "Borderline Personality disorder" coming into my head. If not that, then it's a really extreme case of control-freakitis!

You know how she will respond, that's predictable, so just say what you need to say and be done with it. She'll get mad, so just cut her off and say "you can get as angry as you like mom, I'm not gonna back down and I'm not scared of upsetting you anymore...that's gonna happen anyway...I'm an adult now and you need to back off and let me grow...it's not about you!"

Originally Posted by Elfwing

Late response, but: oh man, my brother is turning into this.

My mother can be controlling, she treats us like children and gets really angry if you try to learn not to be one. She's furious I want to go to the library and insists I use her books for my schoolwork instead -- not gonna happen. She hoards the laundry so you have to raid the basket for clothes, and she gets really pissed off when you do and she'll only get angrier if I don't let her pick out my clothes (I'm nineteen years old, for Christ's sake). So I have to wait until she's gone out to rescue my clothing from the pile she keeps in the living room. She never let my brother or I do chores growing up because "you're children, you're supposed to play!" I used to ask her to buy me a road rules' book so I could learn to drive, and she constantly "forgot" to pick one up for me and she'd get angry if I said I'd go get it myself. (So I'm downloading it from the internet and when I'm ready to take the test, I'm going to brace myself. Her anger is not pretty. She sulks for weeks, and she STILL brings up things I did years ago that angered her.) When I wanted to get a job years ago she told me, "But you can't do that as a career! You deserve better!" I was *fifteen*. And I could kick myself for having listened to her.

I'm responsible for feeding and cleaning the seven ferrets we have, and I'm surprised I'm allowed to do that much.

I make my own breakfast and lunch. Half the time I'll get my own dinner, and that's the only time my mother doesn't actually act ticked off -- if I'm looking in the cupboard/fridge when she's around (the fridge is in the hallway, so if she's home I cannot avoid her seeing me do it) she will come over, act all long-suffering, and point out every single item of food there is in the fridge. Telling her I'm fine will only make her angrier. Sometimes I am so tempted to tell her, "I'm nineteen years old, I am capable of looking inside a fridge."

I hate it. My brother, though? He loves it. I have never, ever seen him cook his own food. If he wants food, all he has to do is ask my mother and she will drop everything to cook him something. He hasn't done a single chore in his lifetime and he's never asked, either. (When I was a kid I offered to help out all the time, and that just pissed my mother off.) He's seventeen years old and in his last year of high school.

I realise it's my responsibility to stop walking on eggshells around my mother and cope with her sulking so I can learn to be independent rather than a pathetic basement-dweller, but oh man, is that anger potent. The last thing I want to do is end up the way my brother's going to. My therapist is actually going to help me learn to cope with my mother's anger. I am so lucky I have a therapist. I'm actually even luckier my mother is still paying for it -- my mother hates her ever since my psych taught me how to take the train. "Why do you need to take a train?! You have us to drive you around!"

I think I'm going to lash out at her one of these days. I'm terrified I'm going to be too scared to learn independence and that I'll still be here in five years. It's my responsibility, after all, to grow up. I'm not a child anymore.

[munish]

AN INDIAN CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You worship them.

Correction.

You have one cow and one bull.

The Name of Bull is Nandi.

Nandi (bull) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I'll contribute one for my country.

SINGAPORE
You have two cows.
You turn them into a tourist attraction.
All the city kids pay good money to come to see and touch the amazing, real, live cows!

-----------
and a new one for New Zealand:


NEW ZEALAND
You have two cows.
What's wrong with you?
You ought to have sheep.

LOL!!

Originally Posted by munish

AN INDIAN CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You worship them.

Correction.

You have one cow and one bull.

The Name of Bull is Nandi.

Nandi (bull) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Haha! Cool...learning through humor. I think I will name my next bull calf Nandi. The only difference is I'll probably eat him.

[Agota]

OMG, cows made me laugh!

[Elfwing]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yeah, some mothers have this real need to be needed. It sounds like your mother is priming you so you never leave her because maybe she is afraid of being alone?

I have a friend whose mother does the same for her three brothers, and they are all mentally ill. I think she doesn't help the situation though as she does everything for them...in a way it's enabling them to stay unwell.

It's selfish and it's also encouraging arrested development in you and your brother. The fact that you are wanting to be more independent and take care of yourself, it's a bit funny that she isn't encouraging this in you.

You say she sulks for weeks and gets angry...wow, I'm reminded of the mother from "waterboy"

Seriously...19 years old. Legally you are an adult...and she needs to let you dress yourself.

I'm not a psychiatrist, but she sounds kinda mental...sorry. Controlling you with anger...that's not very caring and it's not in your best interests that she is doing this...it's purely her own. I keep getting "Borderline Personality disorder" coming into my head. If not that, then it's a really extreme case of control-freakitis!

You know how she will respond, that's predictable, so just say what you need to say and be done with it. She'll get mad, so just cut her off and say "you can get as angry as you like mom, I'm not gonna back down and I'm not scared of upsetting you anymore...that's gonna happen anyway...I'm an adult now and you need to back off and let me grow...it's not about you!"

Thanks for your reply.

Yeah, I read a symptom list of BPD and that looks like my mother, alright. Of course, she thinks it's everyone else in the family who has mental issues, not her. (Really.)

I've only snapped at her three times that I can remember, and the third was pretty recent. Two out of three times she dissolved into tears and still has not let me live it down even though the first time was four years ago, and I had my name dragged through the mud for weeks. (My brother has more of a spine than me and started confronting her, and for months my mother did nothing but snarl about him to anyone who would listen.) I've had her burst into tears because of something I said when I wasn't even being confrontational -- she insisted she came up with a nickname for a character in a movie, and I smiled and said that it was me, and she snapped "I'm not stupid!" and burst into tears. My father gave me the dirtiest look for it.

Ah, bitching aside, yes, I would say she definitely has issues. In my head I've been visualising telling her to cut stuff out when she does something, and lately I've even been dreaming about it. I can't do it in my head forever, though! I feel like a gun about to go off and I'm still working on my courage. The last time I snapped at her, actually, was completely spontaneous where I'd usually shut up. It felt good. I'm slowly getting there. I'm scared she'll pitch the rest of my family against me for it. Then I'll have to deal with three angry people instead of one. (More motivation to get the hell out of here, yay!)

I'd say she's terrified of me leaving the nest. She hates it when people expect her to do everything for them, but she won't let them do things on their own either if she can help it. She's always acted like she won't smother me when I leave, that I'm off living my own life... but in all honesty I'm expecting so much conflict and passive-aggression when I move out. Because she won't be happy about it, at all. And she can damned well put up with it.

Thanks for your encouragement. Here's to taking back power!

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Elfwing

Thanks for your reply.

Yeah, I read a symptom list of BPD and that looks like my mother, alright. Of course, she thinks it's everyone else in the family who has mental issues, not her. (Really.)

That sounds about right. Keep in mind that neither of us are trained proffessionals though so it's important not to categorize your mother...but it does sound likely. It also sounds very similar to Narcisisstic Personality Disorder. You might try googling for adult children of Narcisissts support groups if you want to learn more and see if anyone elses stories you can relate to?

I've only snapped at her three times that I can remember, and the third was pretty recent. Two out of three times she dissolved into tears and still has not let me live it down even though the first time was four years ago, and I had my name dragged through the mud for weeks. (My brother has more of a spine than me and started confronting her, and for months my mother did nothing but snarl about him to anyone who would listen.) I've had her burst into tears because of something I said when I wasn't even being confrontational -- she insisted she came up with a nickname for a character in a movie, and I smiled and said that it was me, and she snapped "I'm not stupid!" and burst into tears. My father gave me the dirtiest look for it.

Mine would ignore me for up to 4 whole weeks over the slightest upset. I think most of the time she had forgotten what she was actually pissed at me for, but was so habitual with the silent treatment that she just couldn't snap out of it. The last time was when I failed to laugh at her unfunny joke, which I didn't even realize she had made as I was too wrapped up in the show on t.v...how terrible of me. For that I was ignored for a week.

Ah, bitching aside, yes, I would say she definitely has issues. In my head I've been visualising telling her to cut stuff out when she does something, and lately I've even been dreaming about it. I can't do it in my head forever, though! I feel like a gun about to go off and I'm still working on my courage. The last time I snapped at her, actually, was completely spontaneous where I'd usually shut up. It felt good. I'm slowly getting there. I'm scared she'll pitch the rest of my family against me for it. Then I'll have to deal with three angry people instead of one. (More motivation to get the hell out of here, yay!)

Have you considered contacting someone from your local mental health department? They may be able to help you with little ways of communicating with her that might work better? You never know....?

I'd say she's terrified of me leaving the nest. She hates it when people expect her to do everything for them, but she won't let them do things on their own either if she can help it. She's always acted like she won't smother me when I leave, that I'm off living my own life... but in all honesty I'm expecting so much conflict and passive-aggression when I move out. Because she won't be happy about it, at all. And she can damned well put up with it.

It does sound like it to me. I've known loads of women who behave this way just in share house situations. They do all the housework, and then complain that I never did anything...but how could I when they made sure everything is always done already...and no one can match their standards of cleanliness so they don't trust anyone else to do it! They get to play the martyr, so at least they get something for all their 'hard work'. Maybe if they left me something to do, I'd be able to actually participate.

Thanks for your encouragement. Here's to taking back power!

No problem, and good luck...you'll need it.

[Ahriman]

This is really interesting thread that's gone far beyond the original idea.

As an adult who lives with a parent and who knows several others who do the same I can offer broad perspective on this. I would say that, yes, living with your parents can be like a second childhood, but that statement needs to be qualified since that, even in this situation, there are various degrees of 'independence'.

Some people in this category are actually vary mature in every sense of the word and are either living at home to take care of their family or due to the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ economy that has been foisted upon them.

Then on the other extreme you have guys (yes, they are always male in my experience) who may or may not have a job who simply play video games all day and hang out with their male friends (if they had it together enough to get girlfriends they might be able to afford an apartment of their own). I think that Steve was probably referring to these types when he made that statement.

Between these two extremes, however, there are actually a lot of degrees of independence.

I have lived with my mother most of my life but it's not the same as it was when I was a child. I prepare my own meals, do my own laundry, and pay for my own things. In exchange for living in her house my mom expects me to refrain from doing certain activities in it that she would not feel comfortable with (such as having sex or hosting loud parties -- though this is no issue for me since I have no interest in either). So while I certainly don't have the same freedom that an adult who is living alone would enjoy, neither do I feel like a child. It's like living an ANY group situation - you compromise with your living companions. In fact, if I did have the money to afford my own place I think I would probably choose to buy a home and invite my mother to live with me.

Some people might see this situation as unhealthy or 'arrested'. But while I am willing to admit that it is far from ideal, I don't believe it's the same as childhood. I once had the idea that it would be really 'manly' of me to move out and live on the streets until I found a job and apartment. After 3 weeks of being homeless in San Francisco I discovered that voluntarily living on the streets when I could have been living with my mom had not made more independent, more motivated, and it certainly had not made me more employable. Having realized this I promptly came home and actually got a job a short time later.

If someone has no other alternative than homelessness then there really is no shame in living with parents and no need for regret either since the only alternative would be worse. It may not be conductive to total happiness but that doesn't make those who are living in this situation big babies; it just makes them adults who must compromise some of their desires to suit their parent's wishes. Does it cut in on your self-expression and lifestyle? Yes, but so does ANY type of co-habitation. Roommates also must compromise with one another. So must spouses. But just because it requires some loss of independence doesn't make it unhealthy or regressive.

[russianrocket]

Not being allowed to have sex in your own house, makes you a child under your parents wing.

And, obviously being homeless is worse then living at home, but just because you some how thought that being homeless, would get you all those things, doesn't make living at home, positive. Living at home should never be more then a transitional phase. And obviously steve wasn't talking about people who take care of their parents, nor was he referring to people in a transitional phase of living at home.

[Ahriman]

I'm not saying it's ideal and I would agree that it should be a transitional phase. I simply object to the implication that adults who live with parents are psychological children (emotionally or intellectually). There are really many different reasons why an adult might be in this situation.

I know one man who lives with his grandparents (parents are dead). He is a registered sex-offender due to something that he allegedly did when he was 13. As a result most employers won't even consider hiring him and, even if he could get a job, most apartment managers cannot legally rent to him.

I myself have attempted to get an apartment several times but because I have no rental or credit history I was turned down repeatedly, even though I made more than enough income to afford the monthly rent and offered to pay them three months advance rent if they gave me chance.

My point is that just because some people are not able to house themselves does not necessarily make them immature or irresponsible. They might just be poor, or physically disabled, or have a criminal background, or simply lack the social skills needed to make it in the world. None of these disadvantages makes them children.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Ahriman

I'm not saying it's ideal and I would agree that it should be a transitional phase. I simply object to the implication that adults who live with parents are psychological children (emotionally or intellectually). There are really many different reasons why an adult might be in this situation.

I don't think that most people who live with their parents are children psychologically, but I would argue that if they stay long enough there, their psychology will change...and that is because mothers cannot help but treat their kids like children, even when they are not. It's this subtle infantizing that happens in their tone of voice...which effects the person, and after a while they may regress because of it.

It's for this reason that I say living with your parents is a step towards mental unwellness. But then, my parents are totally nuts...some people don't have that issue.

[James81]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Not being allowed to have sex in your own house, makes you a child under your parents wing.

And, obviously being homeless is worse then living at home, but just because you some how thought that being homeless, would get you all those things, doesn't make living at home, positive. Living at home should never be more then a transitional phase. And obviously steve wasn't talking about people who take care of their parents, nor was he referring to people in a transitional phase of living at home.

Again, that's just a cultural decision we've made in America. And its because we have this image of the fat, lazy, non-contributing slob who lays in their parents basement eating cheetos all day.

Truth be told, lots of cultures thrive on creating deep family connections under one roof. And its not a measure of dependence or noncontribution. On the contrary, its just the opposite.

[Ahriman]

I don't think that most people who live with their parents are children psychologically, but I would argue that if they stay long enough there, their psychology will change...and that is because mothers cannot help but treat their kids like children, even when they are not. It's this subtle infantizing that happens in their tone of voice...which effects the person, and after a while they may regress because of it.

Yes, when you explain it as an effect rather than a cause, it makes sense.
Thank you.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Ahriman

Yes, when you explain it as an effect rather than a cause, it makes sense.
Thank you.

You're very welcome.