"Living with your parents is called childhood."

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

o_O do we normally disagree? I don't remember, I have a short list of the people I disagree with, but don't remember you.

Perhaps we mostly disagreed on my old account. I don't get into the same kind of political discussions any more, haha.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Agota

A
1. They are immature. This is actually very easy to see when you compare students who are living with their parents and the ones who are not. You can argue as much as you want, but when your mom cooks you omelette for breakfast and wash your socks, it's pretty hard to see yourself as an adult (or be seen as one, for that matter).

Funny enough, I'd argue this is mostly a matter of perspective. Someone who takes care of all their own &*%$, cooks their own meals, drives their own car, but lives at home out of necessity is just as mature as someone who lives separate from their parents.

(Full disclosure: I started cooking my own meals, doing my own laundry, setting my own bed time, along with a number of other, smaller things when I was 13. Frankly, I think that anyone who goes past that age without doing all of that (or at least being able to) is being coddled or kept artificially immature.)

2. Their parents try to control them. As Cado pointed out, there's a certain dynamic to parent/child relationship and most parents have problems with accepting the fact that you're an adult now. As a result, they lecture their adult kids on how to live, who to date, where to work, etc. That's not healthy to anyone.

In my particular case, I've never been lectured or what have you when I've been around my parents for prolonged periods-I'm stubborn. They came to the realization they had no control over me while I was still a teenager and we're on much more equal terms as a result. The kicker for me is the psychological impact-I'm still uniquely affected by my mother. If she had more of a spine I'd probably have to avoid her altogether-either that or our relationship would be somehow healthier. There's a total lack of conflict there and that's not a good thing in this case.

3. Their parents are toxic. You wouldn't believe how many people I've met who are broken by their parents. It's not good for anyone's mental health to live with someone who constantly criticizes or humiliates you.

Absolutely. If my father were still alive it's probable I'd have either killed him or ran away around 15-16. To say there was a deep, seething rage toward him is an understatement-every moment we shared was utterly humiliating for me.

I believe that anyone who had the experience of living on your own and then moving back with your parents or other relatives can testify that living with your parents as an adult is usually not the most pleasant nor the most healthy experience.

I also don't think that the tradition of married couples staying with their parents is healthy. I can't imagine living with a guy and my relatives or his relatives. There would be obvious issues, like mother-in-law, but I also think it's important for young family to have their own space and be a separate "family unit".

Given the much more typical power dynamic between most people and their parents, I'd have to agree on both counts.

I think it's safe to say, though, that the problem isn't living with your parents vs. not living with them, it's all the societal constructs which have arisen out of parenting as an institution. The dominant thought process is that you're supposed to control children and when it lasts for so many years it's a very difficult pattern to break, especially when it's reinforced by adolescent conflict. If our thinking revolved around making children their own people and guiding them toward decisions which are mutually beneficial I doubt we'd see as many problems as we do today.

As for Asians, I personally only heard horror stories about their family ties. I believe there are healthy Asian families, but most young Asian people I've encountered, many of them in this forum, are totally messed up by their controlling parents. Is that healthy? I don't think so.

When you don't sugarcoat the eastern modality and present it as-is, you've got a solid argument for it only persisting out of economic necessity. If they had more affluent and capitalistic societies you'd probably see a shift in their values. You're already seeing it amongst wealthy families in India.

I don't think anyone wants to hate or be hated by their relatives-especially their parents-but when parents are left high and dry they need to ask themselves: what did I do to bring this on myself? It's a hard question and it implies guilt, but it's a necessary antidote to saying, "I fed them, clothed them, sacrified for them..." because if they can't see things from their kid's point of view the relationship can't be healed.

[Bradshaw]

I didn't care much for the tweet, but the topic is obviously important for people who are still living with their parents. Is living with your parents “childhood”, “lame”, “weak”, “pathetic”, “loser-ish”? Nah, those are just definitions. Nevertheless, there is no doubt about it that it's not healthy for you, IF your parents are toxic.

To all 20 somethings who live with their parents: If your parents are toxic, then you must make it a priority to leave as soon as possible. Make it your primary objective and let nothing stop you. If you have to move heaven and earth to do so, then so be it. Remember that toxic parents will attempt to manipulate you into staying. You must nevertheless gather enough willpower to escape from their grasp.

Toxic parents want you around them, but you must nevertheless defy them until you've moved out. The 20 something friends I know who are afraid to defy their parents tend to stay much longer around their parents than they should, yet I consider defying and challenging your parents to be one of the best experiences you can have. When you defy your parents and you keep defying and you make them understand that you're going to do whatever you want, you feel your own power and it makes you more confident and positive in life.

Moving out was the best decision of my life. My parents are immensely toxic in various ways, and while I pretty much never listened to them, it doesn't change the fact that many of the things they did were insane. My life improved immeasurably after I left my country. I now see them once a year tops—it's perfect.

I think people who are still living with their toxic parents have no idea how much it really harms them. It stalls your growth in the material world. I make damn sure whenever I see my parents that I'm well prepared mentally and energetically. I do the same with all toxic people, actually. When I know that I'm going to have to spend some time around toxic people(an extremely rare event these days), I will almost immediately strengthen my resolve to not be influenced even for a moment; I make myself feel indestructible. This works very well.

I appreciate my parents a lot though. I have become very good at keeping my social circle completely clean of unwanted guests and I will instantaneously reject toxic people—and I can detect them very easily.

In a sense, it's a bit sad that so many of us didn't have better parents; But those of us who manage to transcend it and grow beyond our upbringing also tend to become stronger than people who didn't have those challenges. Bit by bit we retake our power and we go out into the world. It usually isn't easy, but it's worth it.

[OptimistPrime]

Originally Posted by Cado

I think it's safe to say, though, that the problem isn't living with your parents vs. not living with them, it's all the societal constructs which have arisen out of parenting as an institution.

This.

[Agota]

Originally Posted by Cado

Funny enough, I'd argue this is mostly a matter of perspective. Someone who takes care of all their own &*%$, cooks their own meals, drives their own car, but lives at home out of necessity is just as mature as someone who lives separate from their parents.

You can't argue because I agree with you :P

Well, of course it's a matter of perspective, I was simply talking about the stereotypical living with your parents, the one I believe Steve was referring to.

..this is the same as in the thread about guys who are unemployed and living with their parents..in stereotypical situation, that's not hot at all, however, a guy who made a conscious choice to move in with his parents for half a year in order to get his business going would have a chance with me and I believe with quite a lot of other girls who are into entrepreneurship..

Also, living with your parents would be totally different for someone who has a healthy relationship that's based in love, understanding and respect.In this case, none of the problems I've mentioned applies. It's simply that most families are dysfunctional and people who have that kind of relationship with their parents are rare.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Agota

I believe that anyone who had the experience of living on your own and then moving back with your parents or other relatives can testify that living with your parents as an adult is usually not the most pleasant nor the most healthy experience.

I actually had a very interesting experience moving out and back home for a few years. I stayed with my parents while taking college classes out of necessity, but moved out periodically for months / years at a time on internships. The first time I did, I roomed with 2 young professionals and learned to relate to the people I lived with as reasonable adults.
When I moved back with my parents, I implemented the same relationship - adult to adult, using non violent communication, addressing dormant issues, no patience for passive-aggressive behavior, no response to being treated like a child. I learned to identify and to enforce healthy boundaries (and, in return, respect them in other people). And it worked! There were setbacks of course, and I am still working at improving the relationship with my mother, but it was a very interesting growth experience for all of us.

Originally Posted by Cado

When you don't sugarcoat the eastern modality and present it as-is, you've got a solid argument for it only persisting out of economic necessity. If they had more affluent and capitalistic societies you'd probably see a shift in their values. You're already seeing it amongst wealthy families in India.

But it persists in Japan and Korea, 2 first world countries.
I see it from an evolutionary standpoint - it's a behavior that persists because it is good at surviving and spreading. It has nothing to do with how healthy it actually is for the people perpetuating it.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

And that's the exact reason I moved out away from my step mom. I used to be a positive, and very confident person. She drove that out of me. That house was nothing but negativity.

Mine dumped all their negativity and misery and depression on me, and because I'm empathic, I took it on unconsciously. Because they are in denial of their own negativity, they then also blamed ME for being the negative one...when it was THEIR negativity all along.

Dad could never work out why I lacked confidence...when it was his behavior that caused it.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Agota

I wouldn't want my parents or relatives to move in with me when they're old nor would I want my kids to take me in when I'm old. I don't think it's healthy that most people lose themselves when they have kids and then hang on to them once they grow up, expecting their kids to provide meaning for their lives and then blaming their kids for having their own lives to live. I really hope that I'll be able to let my kids go when it's time and move on with my life.

I guess understanding things like "empty nest syndrome" as well, helps. When a mother spends 18 or more years of her life, in the role of 'mother' only to then have it all abruptly change, when her kids move away or want to, it leaves her with a loss of identity. Who would she be if not the person who has always cared for and cooked for and done everything for her kids?

We all have to adapt to new life changes, and mothers are no exception, but I do get how hard it must be to really let go of your children when it's time. My mother didn't have a great time of it, and I think on some level she felt like we abandoned her or rejected her.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I guess understanding things like "empty nest syndrome" as well, helps. When a mother spends 18 or more years of her life, in the role of 'mother' only to then have it all abruptly change, when her kids move away or want to, it leaves her with a loss of identity. Who would she be if not the person who has always cared for and cooked for and done everything for her kids?

We all have to adapt to new life changes, and mothers are no exception, but I do get how hard it must be to really let go of your children when it's time. My mother didn't have a great time of it, and I think on some level she felt like we abandoned her or rejected her.

So would it be better in a family where both parents work? Should eliminate empty neat syndrom

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

So would it be better in a family where both parents work? Should eliminate empty neat syndrom

It may be better if the mother has something else that fulfills her. My mother was working for the last ten years of us living at home, and dad always worked running his own businesses, and she still had a hard time adjusting...but she also had some sort of nervous breakdown after her mother died and didn't seek help. She is still in denial about that, so there wasn't much we could do. She was addicted to the pokies for a long time, as a substitute.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Agota

You can't argue because I agree with you :P

Hehehe! Well, that post cleared a few things up. Thanks.

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

So would it be better in a family where both parents work? Should eliminate empty neat syndrom

Well, no, I don't think so. To me empty nest syndrome is more about just being lonely and missing your kids who were a presence in your life so long. And worrying about them!!!

I'm not the real "mothering" kind who wants to do everything for her kids. Far from it, in fact! But I know I will struggle so badly when they leave . And it's not because of my identity as a "mother" it's just that they won't be there for me to know how they're going, and if they're okay etc. etc.

And as for all that childcare stuff... my kids went to daycare, and it was great. I wouldn't expect grandparents to care for grandkids, simply because the retirement age is well over the age when most people become grandparents, and thus they simply aren't available to care for the kids while mum and dad go off to work! Many people now need to work until retirement so they can...well...retire! They need to build their nest egg etc. I'd never expect my mum to give up work to care for the grandkids (although at 67 she is retired now...she was only in her 50s when they were born).

[OptimistPrime]

Originally Posted by elucidate

She was addicted to the pokies for a long time, as a substitute.

Did you mean to say ponies, or is that Australian slang for slot machines?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by OptimistPrime

Did you mean to say ponies, or is that Australian slang for slot machines?

Yes, pokies are the slot machines...poker machines here. I thought it was a universal term for them...but hey.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes, pokies are the slot machines...poker machines here. I thought it was a universal term for them...but hey.

I thought you meant drugs. Pokie just doesn't say slots to me lol no poking involved.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I thought you meant drugs. Pokie just doesn't say slots to me lol no poking involved.

I was thrown aback by that the first time an Australian friend used that term. LOL. Everytime I picture someone hitting the buttons in my head, I can't help but also picture the machine do a little Pillsbury Dough Boy giggle.

[SarahLuvzYu]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes, pokies are the slot machines...poker machines here. I thought it was a universal term for them...but hey.

So did I haha!

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes, pokies are the slot machines...poker machines here. I thought it was a universal term for them...but hey.

If you think about it...it is kinda stupid calling them Poker Machines, when you don't actually play poker on them lol.

But yeah, I didn't realise that not everyone knew what pokies were either .

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by votoshka

If you think about it...it is kinda stupid calling them Poker Machines, when you don't actually play poker on them lol.

But yeah, I didn't realise that not everyone knew what pokies were either .

Yeah, it's a bit silly...but that's aussies for ya.

I thought it was common knowledge. Oh well, learn something new, and all that.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yeah, it's a bit silly...but that's aussies for ya.

I thought it was a universal term. Oh well, learn something new, and all that.

If it makes you guys feel better, we Americans call them all slot machines when in fact most of them have buttons now instead of the little slot and lever thingy. I think "pokies" is much cuter and less intimidating, anyway.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I thought you meant drugs. Pokie just doesn't say slots to me lol no poking involved.

Well, you kinda make a poking action when you press the buttons I guess.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

If it makes you guys feel better, we Americans call them all slot machines when in fact most of them have buttons now instead of the little slot and lever thingy. I think "pokies" is much cuter and less intimidating, anyway.

well, they all have slots, so they can still be called slot machines : D

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Well, you kinda make a poking action when you press the buttons I guess.

then explain to me the reasoning in the old days, before they had buttons.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

then explain to me the reasoning in the old days, before they had buttons.

I cannot. I admit to being totally ignorant about slot/poker machines before they were what they are today, and therefore can offer no sound reasoning or even basic conversation on the subject.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

well, they all have slots, so they can still be called slot machines : D

That's true...duh me. LOL. Otherwise where would the money go in, right?

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

That's true...duh me. LOL. Otherwise where would the money go in, right?

I like "one arm bandit " better. Much more intimidating, and as it should be.

Oh and, around here, they use game cards instead of money. Makes you not notice how much you are spending. Yet, if you win, they still make the sounds as if coins are falling. Lol they really our out to get you. Eventually tho, I'm sure it will be a card swipe, or even just a card you press against it, so being called a slot machine, will become ironic.

[munish]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

So you have first hand experience with this type of family living? This is what I want to hear. This will be more than an opinion but an actual account of what happens in these situations.

There is a saying in Sanskrit.

"Pitru devo bhava" . Worship your parents.

Shravan Kumar a character in Hindu Epic Ramayana is considered as an ideal son .

There is no concept of old age homes in India.

When we tell people that in other countries people don't live with their parents. First they don't believe , then they curse them.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by aelle

But it persists in Japan and Korea, 2 first world countries.

It also persists in Singapore, another 1st world country with a better credit rating than the USA and higher GDP per capita.

So much for Cado's "economic necessity" theory.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Cado

(Full disclosure: I started cooking my own meals, doing my own laundry, setting my own bed time, along with a number of other, smaller things when I was 13. Frankly, I think that anyone who goes past that age without doing all of that (or at least being able to) is being coddled or kept artificially immature.)

Full disclosure: when I was 13, I was also doing all that, and more. Because apart from caring for myself, I had to help to care for my grandmother who was, by then, bedridden and suffering from dementia. While it was difficult, I was fully committed to the task, since she was, after all, the ine who cared for me when I was an even younger child.

So yes, I learned from a relatively young age not just to look after myself but also to look after others.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Full disclosure: when I was 13, I was also doing all that, and more. Because apart from caring for myself, I had to help to care for my grandmother who was, by then, bedridden and suffering from dementia. While it was difficult, I was fully committed to the task, since she was, after all, the ine who cared for me when I was an even younger child.

So yes, I learned from a relatively young age not just to look after myself but also to look after others.

Guess what? My mother didn't always live with her parents but when my grandmother was in need of help, we moved close to her and I lived in the house with her until she went to a medical facility with proper care.

I did all those same things. And not because she did them for me but because I loved her. Honestly though, I would've done them for anyone else who needed me. There are people like that here in nasty old America, didn't you know?

So believe it or not, even though we're taught independence and to live on our own, we're also taught to take care of our family. It would have been a fight if someone told me otherwise while I was cleaning my grandmother's potty chair.

The difference was when she became completely bedridden we sent her to a place where the nurses could care for her properly, she could have physical therapy, and people knew what they were doing as to avoid hygiene issues and bedsores, etc. Sending her to a home was not a matter of GETTING RID OF HER or abandoning her, it was a matter of having a medically trained nurse care for her as opposed to a 13 year old which is how old I was at the time.

Lookie there, we have that in common.