"Living with your parents is called childhood."

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by James81

Sk8joyful,

For the record, I rarely respond to your posts because they are structured in a weird way and your English seems clunky and hard to read. It has nothing to do with any personal feeling I have toward you...I think it's great that you contribute here when you've got so much going on in real life.

Just thought I'd mention that because I imagine that I'm not the only one who glides by you're posts because they are tough to read.

Nope, not the only one. Reads like one of those stupid infomercial websites that you scroll through for ever. The only reason I even read them, was because it was directed towards me. I mean, I kinda understand it. She is trying to write like she speaks. So if you put the emphasis into her words using the underlines and bolds, you can see how she's actually saying it. It also makes for a slow read tho.

[ZephyrusX]

I actually like the way sk8joyful writes. Sometimes it sounds deliberately lyrical. The quoted section made me smile quite the bit. I usually get the meaning behind her posts, and where I don't, I have the same difficulty with other posters insofar as we have different paradigms and different understanding of language. If you have the will to understand, you will.

Having said that, I do think individuals are responsible for the way that they present their ideas, and if they majority of people are not reading your posts for some reason, it is your responsibility to do something about it.

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

And the strangest thing is: Formerly, kiddo always lived as a parent's greatest JOY: she lived as loving as I,
she lived as happy as I, she lived as healthy as I, she lived as giving as I; we were like 2 birdies of the SAME feather.

[munish]

Originally Posted by James81

It's also called "Living in China."

I don't know about China , but in India 90% -95% + live with their parents or if they are in another country , they will call them everyday.

But i feel it is not healthy.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by munish

I don't know about China , but in India 90% -95% + live with their parents or if they are in another country , they will call them everyday.

But i feel it is not healthy.

So you have first hand experience with this type of family living? This is what I want to hear. This will be more than an opinion but an actual account of what happens in these situations.

Again, I've only seen these cultural beliefs being applied within America, therefore fighting the American norm where the children are being taught to believe one thing inside the home but being taught something else outside of the home through the school system, peers, etc.

What I found personally, is that it caused problems in the marriage between an Asian woman and American man. The child(ren) rebelled. My stepmother raised her own daughter and her nephew. The nephew moved away at 21 and refuses to return home because she won't allow him to visit his girlfriend, eat as he pleases, watches his every move. He is actually 29 now and still refuses to spend much time in the house with her.

Her daughter was forced to pursue a college education in music, after being forced her entire life to play piano, and is now stuck in a position of playing for various churches and giving lessons and basically having a very difficult time making it on her own because she complied to her mother's wishes instead of pursuing a medical degree like she wanted to.

Her mother remained involved in every part of her life, including dating (which she was not allowed to do until out of college unless she did it secretely), shaving her legs, wearing makeup. The daughter basically told her mother to shove it when she was 25. And there was constant arguing and disagreeing between the two of them from the time she was a little girl. One thing I've learned from that experience is being a very strict, demanding parent does not keep a child from arguing and rebelling.

Although I'm sure it's much different when you are raised in a country where other families practice the same type of family setup, I wonder if most are actually happy not being allowed to steer away from the family or if most just comply because it's what is expected of them.

Personally, because my parents have been so wonderful to me, even my mother who can be manipulative and emotionally abusive at times, I will always be there for them. They've given me everything they can, loved me, supported me, and taught me that I CAN survive whether they are here with me or not, which is something I appreciate greatly and want my children to also possess. I think it's the norm that most children who are brought up in a healthy home will also do these things for their parents without resentment. Not because they HAVE to but because they love and appreciate their parents.

Again, I think there is some serious dysfunction and bound to be very negative surroundings when when an adult is expected to do these things for their parents. It's as if the only reason to have children is to make sure you're taken care of when you get old and that seems very selfish to me.

You know you've done something right when you can set the little birdie free and it comes back to you just because it loves you and wants to. On the other hand, whether one wants to admit it to him/herself or not, something has gone wrong in the relationship when the little birdie flies away, fleeing for dear life and never to return or if you have to trap it to keep it there for company.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

And meerkats. I love meerkats, they are the cutest things ever.


"Move out? Where?? Why??"

Cooperative behaviour among meerkat adults:



Their family mentality:




"Say cheeeeese .... One for the album!"

Aawww, they're the funniest things. They crack me UP!
I could stand in the zoo all day, & watch them. - what is it about them, anyway ??

I know. It's the SINGLE-MINDED INTENSITY in their eyes... - like we are DETERMINED, and we SHALL WIN.

I LOVE it.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Thank you for at least some kind words, towards me.

And thank you for all that you are doing, for your (abusive) Grandpa.
Tho I would NEVER accept such help; because -
1. I won't be a 'burden' on anyone.
2. I will never agree to live in an "institution".


It's very simple: After I discovered, in absolute horror, that her father was a pedophile, I filed for divorce immediately.
She was tiny still, and I took her to a SAFE place, & as I said above she in freedom & safety, got to experience & experiment with her other homeschooled peers, life's fun pleasures, and all the things we enjoyed... together.

After she graduated college as a teen, she married her Sweetie, & at age 20 she already ran her own Business, they had bought a brand new home, and she was expecting...
when
she sent me THE letter: "Mom, I'm sorry you got stuck with a lousy human, but I got a good one. And I want my kids to have both grandparents together. So unless you agree to become Good-friends with dad, you will NEVER get to see your grandkids, and should something happen to you, you can not come here, to recover. I love you mom, you are the best. And life is not fair.

Her 1st. child is now 3, and I have never seen them. And she moved all they way across the country.

Wow. I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier. By the time I checked the thread, there were tons of responses so I guess I missed this one.

I'm going to let my feelings take over in response to this and tell you I think this could have something to do with her husband. It sounds like the two of you were very close, and I'm not sure what all went on between you two, but if those are her words exactly, it just makes very little sense.

Obviously if her father is a pedophile, you would think there would be no reason she would want him around her own children. Is there some sort of serious prejudice she or her husband have against divorce and they don't want that influence brought to their childrens' attention? Are they very involved in a religion that would shun you for not being married to the father of your children?

This is just kind of weird, Sk8. No offense to you or your daughter intended whatsoever, but I kind of feel like there is something more to her case than what she wrote to you. Otherwise, it is just...unreasonable. And VERY unfair to you.

I'm so sorry you're being faced with this. It would kill my mother not to see her grandchildren.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

Wow.
I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier.
I'm going to let my feelings take over in response to this and tell you I think this could have something to do with her husband.

yes, it does.

Originally Posted by momo3bur

It sounds like the two of you were very close

Yes, we were very closely Bonded.

Originally Posted by momo3bur

it just makes very little sense.

Obviously if her father is a pedophile, you would think there would be no reason she would want him around her own children.

She does not want her dad - around her own kids, because she does NOT trust him.

She knows the truth, of what he has chosen to be.

So, by forbidding also me, she can tell him: "Well, Mom
won't be your friend, so you can't come either" - That's
how she gets around, not having to tell him NO!!

Originally Posted by momo3bur

It would kill my mother not to see her grandchildren.

Why do you think - that (amongst 10 other hells like that) -
my TRIcuspid valve was broken, ie. in heart-failure: and
they just declared me "disabled".

(Same as what you said, about your own mom: "it would kill her")

Yup, Kiddo broke my heart...

BUT, (Kiddo does not) "rule" my heart: JESUS does; and JESUS HEALS...

See 'HE that lives IN me, is GREATER!
(than he that lives in the world). So my heart is healing

[russianrocket]

And there we have it....



Also, I really hope that you didn't tell your daughter that she "caused" your heart failure.

[newmark]

In societies where children live with their parents until they marry, they remain children for much longer. I teach at a university in Taiwan and the university students here are less mature and more dependent than students of the same age in Europe and North America.

[ZephyrusX]

What do you mean by less mature? Less responsible?

Originally Posted by newmark

In societies where children live with their parents until they marry, they remain children for much longer. I teach at a university in Taiwan and the university students here are less mature and more dependent than students of the same age in Europe and North America.

[newmark]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

What do you mean by less mature? Less responsible?

I mean more reliant on others to do things for them. They are used to having their parents deal with many aspects of their lives.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by newmark

In societies where children live with their parents until they marry, they remain children for much longer. I teach at a university in Taiwan and the university students here are less mature and more dependent than students of the same age in Europe and North America.

I can totally understand that. I married at 18, lived with my mother until then. Very stupid decision on my part, although I can't say I regret it. I did get some college education, etc., but it hasn't been until the recent few years until I started realizing that I don't have to answer to anyone. I am an adult. I no longer have to hide things for fear of being scolded, etc., and I am 27 years old.

Basically I attribute this to living with my mother and then moving directly in with my husband, who is also kind of...well...read through some of my other posts and you might get the idea. I never really moved out of a situation where there was no "parent" to dictate what I did and did not do. I never got to make decisions solely on my own behalf and with my own judgement, or at least none that were important "life" decisions. Therefore, I've never exactly felt grown up and even now that I came to this realization, it's hard for me to really grasp because although I know what's going on, I don't exactly have the authority to practice it and it leaves me wanting to be on my own instead of tied down in order to at least live a little bit of my own life, made by my own decisions.

So yes, I can SOOO see how that is a problem as I've learned to recognize the same thing in myself.

[ZephyrusX]

By the sounds of it, it seems like everyone's parents are in the habit of making decisions for them.

I don't have that kind of relationship with my mother, so it seems a little weird to me. Even when I was young, she more or less let me make my own decisions.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

By the sounds of it, it seems like everyone's parents are in the habit of making decisions for them.

I don't have that kind of relationship with my mother, so it seems a little weird to me. Even when I was young, she more or less let me make my own decisions.

I think that's an awesome thing. I've tried to be that way with my kids, too, and I really hope it serves them well as adults. I know it really seems to help my oldest daughter in school and my three year old son is VERY intelligent, which I'm super proud of! I think independence is a key factor in not only developing intellectually "bookwise" but also "streetwise" or common sense and judgement wise. LOL. My kids are gonna be like supa smart gangstas. S'right. From da farm.

[ZephyrusX]

I'd rep you again, but I can't. Your posts can be very humorous.

Originally Posted by momo3bur

I think independence is a key factor in not only developing intellectually "bookwise" but also "streetwise" or common sense and judgement wise. LOL. My kids are gonna be like supa smart gangstas. S'right. From da farm.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

And there we have it....

And there we have what?? - and
who is the WE for whom you are speaking?
Do you realize how JUDGMENTAL you come across?
No? -
Well, the meaning of the communication is
in the response you get: You are Toxic emotionally.

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Also, I really hope that you didn't tell your daughter that she "caused" your heart failure.

No, as a matter of fact, I did not tell her that.

Tho she volunteered: "I hope my letter didn't break you heart,
because if I got a letter like that, it would break mine"

Interesting! - Well, she is not at Peace: because she posted that on her own web-site.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

And there we have what?? - and
who is the WE for whom you are speaking?
Do you realize how JUDGMENTAL you come across?
No? -
Well, the meaning of the communication is
in the response you get: You are Toxic emotionally.


No, as a matter of fact, I did not tell her that.

Tho she volunteered: "I hope my letter didn't break you heart,
because if I got a letter like that, it would break mine"

Interesting! - Well, she is not at Peace: because she posted that on her own web-site.

You are judging me, and you are judging your daughters actions, and you come on here to call me emotionally toxic and judgmental? The mirror usually reveals all that you accuse others of being.

You are absolutely not telling us everything. This story is missing so much, and multiple people have already said this. So, what is it?

oh and, is she religious by any chance?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

You are absolutely not telling us everything. This story is missing so much, and multiple people have already said this. So, what is it?

I have a feeling you're right about this.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I'd rep you again, but I can't. Your posts can be very humorous.

Awww, thank you! I try to rep you continuously as well...damn rep limitations. As my mother would say, "THEY ARE SABOTAGING MY LIFE!!!!!!"

My mother has a beautiful way of adding dramatic flare where it's not necessarily needed. Gotta love her!

[ZephyrusX]

haha - So does my brother. I remember a time he walked into the house and told my mother and I that his friend had 'slapped him across the face!'. We were both like, 'OMG! Really? Are you ok?'

After a little conversation, it turned out that his friend had personally insulted him.

Originally Posted by momo3bur

Awww, thank you! I try to rep you continuously as well...damn rep limitations. As my mother would say, "THEY ARE SABOTAGING MY LIFE!!!!!!"

My mother has a beautiful way of adding dramatic flare where it's not necessarily needed. Gotta love her!

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

I think independence
is a key factor in not only developing intellectually "bookwise" but also "streetwise" or common sense and judgement wise.
LOL. My kids are gonna be like supa smart gangstas. S'right. From da farm.

I raised my daughter to be INdependent too:

1. I taught her, by my example, eating Nutritiously, &
then allowed her her own choices...
2. Everyday we'd choose 'the Positive-emotions for the day', and she would Direct our goofin' around with it, in as many circumstances as we could think of. - Like if something bad were to happen, how can we turn it around to the Good... she found this later Helpful, as she served as PEER-counselor in her hi-school.
3. Relationship with God: she watched me talk with God all the time, so she also assumed it was a Natural practice like breathing is natural...
4. Homeschooling: I merely told her what the State required, and
(except for Math), she was totally FREE to Develop & Direct & Structure her Studies..., &
she could choose any Adult-mentor she chose, and study whatever she wanted: this is the UNschooling approach: a FUNLIFE...
5. Helping others: Kiddo's choices really shone there. At her College-graduation at 17, she had Logged the most hours in Community service...
6. She learned from her momma, that God intended us to enjoy LIFE, & this more Abundantly ...

Really, this Recipe was a Winner.

(except for that one screw-up she's made, this kiddo is a WINNER )

[OptimistPrime]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

4. Homeschooling: I merely told her what the State required, and
(except for Math), she was totally FREE to Develop & Direct & Structure her Studies..., &
she could choose any Adult-mentor she chose, and study whatever she wanted: this is the UNschooling approach: a FUNLIFE...

Interesting; that was how I was homeschooled, as well. (Well, actually my parents allowed me even greater free rein than that.)

[Manasarovar]

I have first hand experience in a society where majority live with their parents. People can be mature and independent OR immature and heavily dependent, all of which depends on how the parents raised them.

By which I mean, people turn out how their parents raise them and they barely have any scope in learning things by themselves.

And this 'living with parents' things seeps into lot of other areas as well. For an instance, I'm 21 and I go to college. And even now we have the parent-teacher meetings. If we fail or miss too many classes they have a talk with our parents. I think that's *very* wrong, because beyond a certain age I think our life should become our responsibility completely and having parents on our backs(to get things done) even in adulthood will never allow us to really grow up.

That being said, I have no issues with taking care of my parents once I'm self sufficient and independent. But I do have qualms with being dependent on them and letting them decide how to live my life, which more often than not, is the case here.

[ZephyrusX]

Oh, wow. I'm so happy I don't live where you live. I was forever skipping classes in high school and during my undergraduate. This is something Ma does not need to know about.

Originally Posted by Manasarovar

And this 'living with parents' things seeps into lot of other areas as well. For an instance, I'm 21 and I go to college. And even now we have the parent-teacher meetings. If we fail or miss too many classes they have a talk with our parents. I think that's *very* wrong, because beyond a certain age I think our life should become our responsibility completely and having parents on our backs(to get things done) even in adulthood will never allow us to really grow up.

[Mariana Trench]

I would have left at fourteen had it been legal (and my SS card hadn't been hidden from me so I could get a job ).

And while I'll help my parents financially and put them into a good home when they need it (because I'll always love them), I'd never subject my future children to having them live with us. I cared for my grandparents while my parents were working and it is incredibly hard to deal with senile people when you're they're life line but you don't have any power yourself (my blind, eating-disordered grandmother has severe Alzheimer's and my deaf grandfather has anxiety attacks -- they really should have professional care).

But if my brother needed help? I'd be there for him in a New York minute.

This isn't as much of a cultural pissing contest as it's being made to seem. In Western countries there are a thousand varied reason why living with ones parents is a good idea, and no matter your country some people are toxic. Yes, toxic people with power over you -do- contribute to mental illness.

I didn't really take the tweet seriously. Hardeehar, witty quip on the stereotypical American manchild. I rarely expect tweets of any kind to be culturally-sensitive, nuanced observations, though.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

This isn't as much of a cultural pissing contest as it's being made to seem. In Western countries there are a thousand varied reason why living with ones parents is a good idea, and no matter your country some people are toxic. Yes, toxic people with power over you -do- contribute to mental illness.

And the power dynamic never really goes away. It changes, and you can break its hold to the point that you're able to act independently, but when you're living with someone you were conditioned to obey for the first 18 years of your life it's incredibly easy to slip back into old habits, or take on more of their 'stuff' than is healthy for you. For example, while my relationship with my mother is far healthier than the one I had with my father, her presence has an unusually strong effect on me, which isn't good considering that I'm generally a positive and confident person while she suffers from crippling self-doubt.

I realize it's up to me to control my own emotions and how I respond to people, but sometimes control means avoidance of particular people. When those people are related to you things get complicated.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Cado

And the power dynamic never really goes away. It changes, and you can break its hold to the point that you're able to act independently, but when you're living with someone you were conditioned to obey for the first 18 years of your life it's incredibly easy to slip back into old habits, or take on more of their 'stuff' than is healthy for you. For example, while my relationship with my mother is far healthier than the one I had with my father, her presence has an unusually strong effect on me, which isn't good considering that I'm generally a positive and confident person while she suffers from crippling self-doubt.

I realize it's up to me to control my own emotions and how I respond to people, but sometimes control means avoidance of particular people. When those people are related to you things get complicated.

And that's the exact reason I moved out away from my step mom. I used to be a positive, and very confident person. She drove that out of me. That house was nothing but negativity.

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Because if you move out faraway from your family members, then obviously in practical terms, they can't depend on you, and you won't be in a position to help them.

That's simply not true. Not the healthiest example but my mom's been flying and driving a thousand miles multiple times a year to take care of her parents and brother.

Originally Posted by russianrocket

You chose to create a child. That's one of the first things that gets people out of families. Guilt. It's always the guilt of " I raised you! I put all my time and money into you! I deserve respect and for you to take care of me". I'm sorry, but it doesn't work like that. You're child didn't abandon you. They went on to have their own life. Isn't that why you raised her? I don't understand this whole concept of having a child to take care of so that you have someone to take care of you. It happens all over the world, which is why we are so overly populated. People having kids so that they can bring money in for the family, or so that they have someone to love and love them back.

lol tho I doubt my post will encourage you to come on here more, it's how I feel about the situation. I had the same guilt trip by my parents, and I hated it. Always telling me that all the work they put into me, means I should take care of them when they get old.

Oh hell yes. There is also, "I raised you, therefore you're obligated to obey me, lest you be a horrible person, God says so". WTF

It's all unhealthy. Healthy relationships are never built on guilt.

Huh...do we...agree? A momentous occasion, haha.

Originally Posted by aelle

Very valid point. There is this growing trend in Europe where college graduates don't move out from their parents' until their late 20s - early 30s, simply because they can't afford rent early in their career. And it is problematic in a society that radically shifted the shames and expectations attached to living with your parents.



I love this. Actually, creative communal living solutions are sprouting out all over the place out of economical necessity. My recently-separated mom has been looking into it, turns out there's this big movement of divorced mothers rooming together.
I have this fantasy of communal child rearing, living with one or 2 other friend couples as a way to simplify chores and childcare, and develop new, more meaningful ways to relate to my close friends.

That sounds fantastic. I love the intentional community concept.

Originally Posted by Cado

And the power dynamic never really goes away. It changes, and you can break its hold to the point that you're able to act independently, but when you're living with someone you were conditioned to obey for the first 18 years of your life it's incredibly easy to slip back into old habits, or take on more of their 'stuff' than is healthy for you. For example, while my relationship with my mother is far healthier than the one I had with my father, her presence has an unusually strong effect on me, which isn't good considering that I'm generally a positive and confident person while she suffers from crippling self-doubt.

At the very least, they are not honest relationships when one party believes they do or should have control over the other.

I realize it's up to me to control my own emotions and how I respond to people, but sometimes control means avoidance of particular people. When those people are related to you things get complicated.

Which makes moving out a brilliant idea.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

Huh...do we...agree? A momentous occasion, haha.

o_O do we normally disagree? I don't remember, I have a short list of the people I disagree with, but don't remember you.

[Agota]

At least in my experience, living with one's parents isn't healthy for an adult.

The are three main problems that people who live with their parents have:

1. They are immature. This is actually very easy to see when you compare students who are living with their parents and the ones who are not. You can argue as much as you want, but when your mom cooks you omelette for breakfast and wash your socks, it's pretty hard to see yourself as an adult (or be seen as one, for that matter).

2. Their parents try to control them. As Cado pointed out, there's a certain dynamic to parent/child relationship and most parents have problems with accepting the fact that you're an adult now. As a result, they lecture their adult kids on how to live, who to date, where to work, etc. That's not healthy to anyone.

3. Their parents are toxic. You wouldn't believe how many people I've met who are broken by their parents. It's not good for anyone's mental health to live with someone who constantly criticizes or humiliates you.

I believe that anyone who had the experience of living on your own and then moving back with your parents or other relatives can testify that living with your parents as an adult is usually not the most pleasant nor the most healthy experience.

I also don't think that the tradition of married couples staying with their parents is healthy. I can't imagine living with a guy and my relatives or his relatives. There would be obvious issues, like mother-in-law, but I also think it's important for young family to have their own space and be a separate "family unit".

I wouldn't want my parents or relatives to move in with me when they're old nor would I want my kids to take me in when I'm old. I don't think it's healthy that most people lose themselves when they have kids and then hang on to them once they grow up, expecting their kids to provide meaning for their lives and then blaming their kids for having their own lives to live. I really hope that I'll be able to let my kids go when it's time and move on with my life.

As for Asians, I personally only heard horror stories about their family ties. I believe there are healthy Asian families, but most young Asian people I've encountered, many of them in this forum, are totally messed up by their controlling parents. Is that healthy? I don't think so.