"Living with your parents is called childhood."

[Shift]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

It's only ass backwards to you because you feel that the opposite should be the norm. Prove to us why YOU are right.

I've got a better idea! Why don't you prove to ME why you are right!

Of course, that would require a lengthy discussion that would make this thread look like something out of "World Affairs", and wouldn't actually accomplish anything. I'm going to take the liberty of skipping ahead several pages and agree to disagree.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Shift

I've got a better idea! Why don't you prove to ME why you are right!

Of course, that would require a lengthy discussion that would make this thread look like something out of "World Affairs", and wouldn't actually accomplish anything. I'm going to take the liberty of skipping ahead several pages and agree to disagree.

It is the norm in America. We don't have to prove being right. You are the one coming in here and making the claim/accusation, and the burden of proof ALWAYS falls on the ACCUSER. In case you have never heard of the concept.

When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim.[1] This burden does not necessarily require a mathematical or strictly logical proof, although many strong arguments do rise to this level (such as in logical syllogisms). Rather, the evidential standard required for a given claim is determined by convention or community standards, with regard to the context of the claim in question

Agreeing to disagree is the tool of the loser, in order to seem like the better man, when in reality they know that they have no way of proving their argument, and see no point in continuing. It's quitter talk.

[OptimistPrime]

Originally Posted by Harmonium

From Steve's twitter. What do you all think?

Heh, I'm probably one of the eldest people on this forum who lives with his parents, so here's my take:

I personally think that, if you're going to make a broad generalization about who's a child and who's an adult, John Cheese recently made a much better one:

...it seems to be a balancing point between when you stop depending on other people, and become the person other people can depend on.

In that article, he talks about a teen who works a job to support him and his mother who's on disability, and guys in their 30s who live on their own with wives and kids who are less of an adult than that teen is. Great stuff.

Now, by that measure, I still consider myself to be a child. But I aspire to become an adult one day, by becoming someone whom other people depend on instead of someone who depends on other people. In my situation, doing that will probably require me to move out of my parents' house eventually.

Do I feel shame about being a "child" by that measure even though I'm a legal adult? ♥♥♥♥ no. I think people sometimes take too much pride in being self-reliant. Relying on other people can be a great thing in life, as can being relied upon. What matters is that you do it with people who aren't toxic or abusive.

In that respect, I think that those who generalize that people either should or shouldn't live with their parents are incorrect. Either living situation can be a good thing (or at least better than the alternative), depending on the circumstances and the personalities of everyone involved.

If you have overbearing parents who destroy your self esteem, I say get the hell out of there as fast as you can! If you and your parents get along great and you're happy with the idea of living with them (or having them live with you), and everyone else (your parents, your spouse if you have one, etc.) is also happy with the arrangement, then go for it! It's awesome that you all get along so well.

The same goes for elderly people facing the prospect of living with their kids. If living with your kids would make you miserable, don't move in with them if you can avoid it! And if you and everyone else involved feels fine about you living with them, go right ahead!

[Shift]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

It is the norm in America. We don't have to prove being right. You are the one coming in here and making the claim/accusation, and the burden of proof ALWAYS falls on the ACCUSER. In case you have never heard of the concept.

You don't have to look very far to see that things could be better. A good example is parents working two jobs to afford things they don't need, while the kids are in daycare ten hours a day. I don't say it's always like that, but in may cases it is. To me, that's backwards. Do they really need two new cars, smartphones, cable, ect? Is it worth letting a daycare raise your kids?

It's not much of a wonder that there are some strange problems in North America. Too many people focused on acquiring things as oppose to enjoying what they have (like their families).

Agreeing to disagree is the tool of the loser, in order to seem like the better man, when in reality they know that they have no way of proving their argument, and see no point in continuing. It's quitter talk.

I say this in the most constructive way possible... I see how tenacious you get on these issues and I simply don't care to engage in a sprawling discussion about it. I guess you could say I'd rather spend time with my family than argue on a message board. If that means I lose the debate, that's a consequence I can live with.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Shift

You don't have to look very far to see that things could be better. A good example is parents working two jobs to afford things they don't need, while the kids are in daycare ten hours a day. I don't say it's always like that, but in may cases it is. To me, that's backwards. Do they really need two new cars, smartphones, cable, ect? Is it worth letting a daycare raise your kids?

It's not much of a wonder that there are some strange problems in North America. Too many people focused on acquiring things as oppose to enjoying what they have (like their families).



I say this in the most constructive way possible... I see how tenacious you get on these issues and I simply don't care to engage in a sprawling discussion about it. I guess you could say I'd rather spend time with my family than argue on a message board. If that means I lose the debate, that's a consequence I can live with.

As if America is the only place where such things happen. 1st world countries are all like that. You act as if all of America is like that. I don't think I even know ONE person like that. And I live in a part of Florida that is about as consumerist as it gets.

Nothing wrong with tenacity. If you can't take tenacity, then hey.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

As if America is the only place where such things happen. 1st world countries are all like that.

But I live in a 1st world country and it is not quite like that.

Daycare centers do exist. But if you have to send your kids to daycare for more than half a day, this is generally considered a sad thing.

Instead, it's often the case that the grandparents help to care for the kids, when the parents go out to work.

This model works, because in many families, the three generations do live together under the same roof, and in many other families, the parents live just five or ten minutes' away from the grandparents. So they drop off their kids at grandma's place before going to work.

In general, I would say that most grandmothers and grandfathers give their grandkids much more love and attention than a daycare centre.

[ZephyrusX]

I really like that.

I think North America does over value independence and I do see value in learning to ok with depending upon others. I suppose striking a meaningful balance would be the ideal or interdependence.

Sooner or later, we all fall upon hard times, and if hurts our ego or pride to reach out for help, we are not going to fair very well through life. Its unbelievable how much mental stress some people will put them selves through if they lose their independence (I'm speaking to my self again ).

Originally Posted by OptimistPrime

Do I feel shame about being a "child" by that measure even though I'm a legal adult? ♥♥♥♥ no. I think people sometimes take too much pride in being self-reliant. Relying on other people can be a great thing in life, as can being relied upon. What matters is that you do it with people who aren't toxic or abusive.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by brendannz

Indians are pretty heavily dependent on their families too..

Aha. What's interesting is how you phrase the statement - from the perspective of helpee rather than helper. You could jolly well have conveyed the same point like this:

"Indians are very supportive and help their family members a lot too."

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by James81

Jesus, dude, I was really just being a smartass. I think you need to get a grip and drop the lawyer schtick.

I thought I was being school teacher-ish. You know, like you.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Cado

You balk at the idea of family causing children to develop mental problems and such-well, at least when it comes to my father's side of the family, they can go %^&$ themselves. If my grandfather had another heart attack I wouldn't go visit him, and it's very likely that if one or both of my grandparents die I won't even be informed.

That's how I want it. They're utterly toxic to everyone in their sphere and the world will be better off without them. That was true for my father, and while I consider that a tragic turn the fact is his death was probably the best thing that could have happened to me. Under him I had no right to exist, and if that's what strong family bonds mean in my case then I'll redefine family and seek it elsewhere.

Well, I will accept your word for it, that various family members of yours are toxic and very undesirable to live with.

But in a more general discussion, what are we to make of your personal examples?

We could treat them as very specific examples (i.e YOUR particular dad or granddad was like that), in which case there isn't much value or meaning for other readers, because they have different dads and granddads.

Or we could generalize and say - it's a common thing to have such toxic family members, and therefore moving out is generally advisable.

Then because moving out seems to be such a common phenomenon in America, but not in many other parts of the world, this leads us to the question - why are there (apparently) so many people in the USA who are toxic to their family?

I think that is an important and interesting question, because every American here is someone's child; and is also a parent, or has some probability of becoming one; and unless America's population is fated to die out in 30 to 60 years time, some of you are also going to be grandparents.

So .... are YOU toxic to your family?

[russianrocket]

OR, the rest of the world doesn't move out because their parents don't let them, or their culture doesn't let them, or they have no way of doing so for what ever various reasons even if their families are toxic. The fact that they don't move out the way Americans do, doesn't mean their families aren't also toxic. You talk about his generalizations, but you aren't anywhere closer to being unbiased.

Are Indians supportive? I've heard nothing but horror stories from Indians who managed to get away from their families. I suppose we should all also have arranged marriages. Just because a society is based on a certain premise, doesn't mean that the premise is an ideal or that it couldn't work any other way other then the way they have it working now. You've heard Indians on this board talk about their over bearing parents, and feeling absolute guilt of trying to get away from them.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Then because moving out seems to be such a common phenomenon in America, but not in many other parts of the world, this leads us to the question - why are there (apparently) so many people in the USA who are toxic to their family?

Maybe because it's not considered such an abominable offense that can lead to you being ostracized from your whole community if you dare abandon your parents, as with many asian countries.

People are expected to just put up with heinous abuse and then turn around and look after their abusers as one more giant kick in the face.

Co-dependency and a sense of deprivation which leads to extreme insecurity is what causes a person to become so incredibly toxic to their family that they have no other option than to abandon them entirely, unless they want to sacrifice their own sanity to appear like a "good son/daughter" to the rest of the family and community.

So .... are YOU toxic to your family?

I'm not american, but I will say that if someone can recognize that their family members are making them crazy and behaving in unhealthy ways that use guilt and fear to control them, then they are probably NOT the toxic ones. Usually the ones behaving this way don't even know they are doing it and have no idea of the pain they are causing, and deny being the one in need of a mental health review.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Maybe because it's not considered such an abominable offense that can lead to you being ostracized from your whole community if you dare abandon your parents, as with many asian countries.

People are expected to just put up with heinous abuse and then turn around and look after their abusers as one more giant kick in the face.

Co-dependency and a sense of deprivation which leads to extreme insecurity is what causes a person to become so incredibly toxic to their family that they have no other option than to abandon them entirely, unless they want to sacrifice their own sanity to appear like a "good son/daughter" to the rest of the family and community.



I'm not american, but I will say that if someone can recognize that their family members are making them crazy and behaving in unhealthy ways that use guilt and fear to control them, then they are probably NOT the toxic ones. Usually the ones behaving this way don't even know they are doing it and have no idea of the pain they are causing, and deny being the one in need of a mental health review.

When I told my family in Isreal/Russia that I moved out, 15 miles away, they went crazy. How could I do such a thing to my family. WHy would I MOVE AWAY!?!?!

As far as his last question. What he was trying to imply, is that if parents and grand parents in America are toxic, and the fact that eventually WE will be parents or grand parents, does that also mean that WE are toxic.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

When I told my family in Isreal/Russia that I moved out, 15 miles away, they went crazy. How could I do such a thing to my family. WHy would I MOVE AWAY!?!?!

I would love to live in Malta, where my father's family live, but if I do I will have to go there without telling any of them because I will be expected to spend every weekend with them, and if I don't it will be like stabbing them in the heart and unforgiveable. I like that they have good, strong family values, but that doesn't mean I want to spend every minute of my spare time with them. If I don't though, then I may as well call myself mud and move to siberia.

As far as his last question. What he was trying to imply, is that if parents and grand parents in America are toxic, and the fact that eventually WE will be parents or grand parents, does that also mean that WE are toxic.

Ah, ok, thanks.

Well, if people don't address their own co-dependency issues, then yes, they will become just like their parents.

[newmark]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Or we could generalize and say - it's a common thing to have such toxic family members, and therefore moving out is generally advisable.

Then because moving out seems to be such a common phenomenon in America, but not in many other parts of the world, this leads us to the question - why are there (apparently) so many people in the USA who are toxic to their family?

I'm not sure that there are SO many people in the USA who are toxic to their family. From what I've seen, a lot of people have loving relationships, but they still want independence.

This is clearly a cultural difference, AND BOTH WAYS have good and bad points. Independent good and independent bad relationships exist; as do close good and close bad relationships.

In Taiwan, I know families who are very close, loving and supportive, and who love this closeness. I've also seen toxic people damaging relationships. For example, when the husband moves back into his parents home with his wife; adapting to her husband's parents is often very difficult for the wife. I've seen this cause a great deal of stress.

[SarahLuvzYu]

Originally Posted by newmark

In Taiwan, I know families who are very close, loving and supportive, and who love this closeness. I've also seen toxic people damaging relationships. For example, when the husband moves back into his parents home with his wife; adapting to her husband's parents is often very difficult for the wife. I've seen this cause a great deal of stress.

Ah yeah I've seen this happen too, my best friend's mum (their family is from China btw) has to deal with her mother in law who lives with them. Don't get on very well. I guess there needs to be a balance & it depends on the individuals too.

I also know of a lot of Asian families where the wife & children move overseas for their education and the father stays back to make money =\ I don't know, if I was the wife I'd be pretty annoyed with that sort of set up.

I think it's all individual too though. I'm from a western family but I don't want really want to move out but I probably will in the next year or so. Mostly because I'm very close with my family & I want to see my sisters grow up through high school. I worry about them lots because sometimes they get bullied. If I moved out I would most likely live in the city centre so it'd be about an hours bus ride to visit my family.

This is a really interesting discussion though. & ALG what country are you living in?

[momo3bur]

I think we also all need to consider that children moving out of the home is not ONLY a North American custom. As a matter of fact, I believe many cultures move their kids out of their homes. It seems most of it revolves around marriage, but they are out nonetheless.

This is just another way to take a hit at America...LOL...when in fact Europeans have been marrying their children and sending them away for thousands of years to spread their family name throughout the countries. Many times girls were married and sent away as early as 13 and 14 years of age. I think perhaps it's more of a Western and Eastern debate as opposed to American Vs. Asian.

All I can say is that I'm extremely happy that I live in a place where I have a choice. I will always take care of my parents in whatever way they need and most people I know are the same way as long as they still have a healthy relationship with their parents. I really don't know too many people who are just left alone to rot, as was mentioned above.

Even though I know some of you that don't live in America (and even some that do) think we're all jerks who care nothing about anyone but ourselves and money, we do have family values. They may be different than other parts of the world, but again, America is a melting pot. Most of our cultural beliefs came from other countries. Nothing much is actually "American" if you want to be technical.

[OptimistPrime]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I really like that.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I think North America does over value independence and I do see value in learning to ok with depending upon others. I suppose striking a meaningful balance would be the ideal or interdependence.

Yup. Not to say that self-reliance is bad, of course! It, too, can be a great thing, depending on the circumstances. I think the key is to go with whatever mixture of independence, dependence, and interdependence works for you, and any other people involved, as individuals. And the exact mixture that works best will usually change many times over the course of one's life, sometimes when you expect it, sometimes when you don't. It's not an aspect of life that can be neatly generalized about. It's one of those richly nuanced and highly subjective areas, like selfishness vs. selflessness.

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

Sooner or later, we all fall upon hard times, and if hurts our ego or pride to reach out for help, we are not going to fair very well through life. Its unbelievable how much mental stress some people will put them selves through if they lose their independence (I'm speaking to my self again ).

Hehe, you can talk to yourself in my presence all you want. Your conversations with yourself are usually very interesting to watch.

[russianrocket]

Also, probably generalizing here, but I can't think of a single individual that I've ever known who lives with their parents, who I'd actually consider mature. Zip, zero, zilch. If they are mature, they tend to have some other serious mental issues.

The only exceptions I have personally found, are those that have parents move in with them. But, then the title of this thread would have been " your parents living with you is called childhood". Which, quite frankly, wouldn't make sense, yet is the basis of most of the anti moving out arguments in this thread.

[ZephyrusX]

Originally Posted by OptimistPrime

Hehe, you can talk to yourself in my presence all you want. Your conversations with yourself are usually very interesting to watch.

Originally Posted by RR

Also, probably generalizing here, but I can't think of a single individual that I've ever known who lives with their parents, who I'd actually consider mature. Zip, zero, zilch. If they are mature, they tend to have some other serious mental issues.

There is subjectivity for you.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

There is subjectivity for you.

lol just talking about what I've personally experienced. Not trying to say anyone who lives with their parents has mental issues. My brothers moved out at 30. They were mature, but had serious social issues, that was NOT helped by living in their parents house. One, is more or less a hermit now. The other one, some how miraculously managed to escape that. Thanks to religion.... as much as that pains for me to say.

[momo3bur]

Completely agreed, RR. I think the issue is more about adults who continue to live with their parents without pursuing their own independent, totally self-reliant lives, which is fine if both parties are ok with it, but (in "American" culture...I'm not going to say Western because I know there are still many places where it's not unusual to have an adult move away from home until he/she is married) may be viewed as having a lack of motivation, ambition, and basically taking advantage of family. That might not actually be the case, but it does seem to be the judgement most other American adults will apply to individuals who do practice this.

It doesn't really apply to adults who have their own lives, own marriages, jobs, etc., yet tote their parents along in order to care for them. There is absolutely nothing adolescent about that whatsoever.

I don't think having your parents live with you constantly happens a whole lot in North America, but something that is very common is for an adult to move away, start their own life and family, and then move their parents back in with them when the parents are older and need assistance. That scenario is actually very common, at least around the area I live. Many houses around here, including mine, are built with an onsite or connected "mother-in-law" suite that will having living quarters, kitchen, bath, bedroom(s) so that the parent(s) can live with the adult child but still care for themselves as much as they can so THEY (the parents) don't lose their sense of independence.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

As far as his last question. What he was trying to imply, is that if parents and grand parents in America are toxic, and the fact that eventually WE will be parents or grand parents, does that also mean that WE are toxic.

Exactly.

If toxicity is indeed the common reason for people to be moving out, then there must be plenty of toxic people in that particular society.

It would follow that since many Americans either are or will eventually be parents or grandparents, then many of them would be toxic too.

"My parents are toxic" seems to be an excellent reason for an individual to stay away from his parents. But at the same time, if this is a common reason for individuals to stay away from his parents, then one must wonder why this society/community has so much toxicity.

If, however, independence is the main reason for moving out, then one wonders why so many Americans won't progress to the next stage of adulthood, as defined by John Cheese and as quoted by OptimistPrime:

...it seems to be a balancing point between when you stop depending on other people, and become the person other people can depend on.

Because if you move out faraway from your family members, then obviously in practical terms, they can't depend on you, and you won't be in a position to help them.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SarahLuvzYu

& ALG what country are you living in?

Same one as you, if I recall correctly.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

It doesn't really apply to adults who have their own lives, own marriages, jobs, etc., yet tote their parents along in order to care for them. There is absolutely nothing adolescent about that whatsoever.

I don't think having your parents live with you constantly
happens a whole lot in North America, but something that is very common is for an adult to move away, start their own life and family, and then move their parents back in with them when the parents are older and need assistance. That scenario is actually very common, at least around the area I live. Many houses around here, including mine, are built with an onsite or connected "mother-in-law" suite that will having living quarters, kitchen, bath, bedroom(s) so that the parent(s) can live with the adult child but still care for themselves as much as they can so THEY (the parents) don't lose their sense of independence.

I haven't participated here in a while, but this particular issue just galls me:
When I was a child, the 'adult's thinking was: Cant wait 'til she can take care of herself. - Then at age 13 I was sent to the USA, where at only age 15 I was forced by mom to work FULL-time, while just starting hi-school (& for the only time in school, I started failing because I was comatose during school hours, because of working daily from 1500-2340. <- That is child-abuse on so many levels.
Then,
the very daughter, who I protected (from being by the AMA aborted), and who I lovingly nurtured & raised, & homeschooled on sheer FUN, so she could graduate from college with honors while only 17, - when she got married, she said to me: "Mom should anything ever happen to you, you can't come here to recover. Sorry."

So, because of medical malpractice I have needed a place where in fact I can recover. I can't even begin to describe, what it feels like to be abandoned, no less by the very people who you gave your life for, to protect.

Well, this is just another post to explain why I don't much come here anymore, aside the fact that most people don't bother responding, at the same time that I have positively encouraged so many here.

Oh well, carry on!

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

How American - to know so little about the world outside America.

In 3 out of the world's top 4 most populous countries, living with parents is quite common. (If you don't know which are the 4 most populous countries in the world, do look it up). China is one of those 3 countries, but all three countries are culturally different from each other (no common language, very different religions etc).

Therefore to describe the matter as "living in China" is really very ill-informed.

The "moving out" mentality in the US is just a byproduct of its own history. 13 colonies, farmers spreading out across a vast unexplored land to get their own space etc (killing plenty of native Americans and using lots of black slaves from Africa along the way, but that's another story). American Old West, cowboys
expanding into the frontier etc etc.

Culturally, you therefore grow up with the notion that being adult means going somewhere faraway from where you used to grow up. Very Laura Ingalls "Little House on the Prairie" and Huckleberry Finn-ish.

All good and well, but to a large extent, it's just your own idiosyncratic cultural notion, you see. And it already lost its original purposes. There isn't any more land for you to stake, just by moving out and getting there first. You aren't a
cowboy, James, you're a school teacher.

I am starting to feel that "living on your own" is untenable, too, in the long run. The only reason it worked was during a very brief time with an artificially boosted economy. Living alone or with a partner has gotten so expensive that many of the most talented, inventive people are forced to struggle to make ends meet instead of do those activities which will actually contribute to happiness and to contribution toward society (and I don't consider working an ordinary job to be this). We are rapidly approaching a point where advanced education, writing a book, starting a business, or devoting any amount of time to non-work activity is something reserved for the privileged. Normal people do not even have time for their children anymore, and are forced to leave their children to be raised by the state in public schools which are increasingly merely nannies for working parents. And it is so unnecessary. More adults living in a tight knit community, would solve the problem so nicely.

Living with family, however, isn't an option for many of us.

Therefore, there needs to be a third alternative, and that is a revisiting of the
intentional community. We don't need to get over our striving or inventiveness or even desire for privilege, IMo; we need to get over our fanatical need to live alone, and we must become social beings. If we do not do this, the innovative and educated people will disappear - because the conservatives, religious and people from other cultures -already know how to live communally-.

I'm inspired enough by this idea to consider doing a course of study around it;
it may be the topic of a Ph.D. down the road.

Some communities have made this work. The thing is, we hear far, far more about the failures. I don't feel that the solution is a rural self sufficient commune; I'm not thinking of any kind of communism in any sense of the term. What I'm interested in investigating is mainstreaming of the urban cohousing movement and a possible movement toward the urban arcology. There are already a number of cohousing organizations which vary in level of
"commune" similarity and the most successful seem to be those which have greater integration with their urban environments and which contribute to the culture and economy.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

I haven't participated here in a while, but this particular issue just galls me:
When I was a child, the 'adult's thinking was: Cant wait 'til she can take care of herself. - Then at age 13 I was sent to the USA, where at only age 15 I was forced by mom to work FULL-time, while just starting hi-school (& for the only time in school, I started failing because I was comatose during school hours, because of working daily from 1500-2340. <- That is child-abuse on so many levels.
Then,
the very daughter, who I protected (from being by the AMA aborted), and who I lovingly nurtured & raised, & homeschooled on sheer FUN, so she could graduate from college with honors while only 17, - when she got married, she said to me: "Mom should anything ever happen to you, you can't come here to recover. Sorry."

So, because of medical malpractice I have needed a place where in fact I can recover. I can't even begin to describe, what it feels like to be abandoned, no less by the very people who you gave your life for, to protect.

Well, this is just another post to explain why I don't much come here anymore, aside the fact that most people don't bother responding, at the same time that I have positively encouraged so many here.

Oh well, carry on!

I'm very sorry you've had to go through this. I can't speak for your situation, but most of the families I know personally would never have completely abandoned their parents, including my own grandfather who was abusive to his children on many, many levels. His children don't particularly want him to live in their home because many of them have children, but we pay nearly $2000 a month just for his room in a nice retirement villiage close to one of his daughters.

I'm really sorry about what you're going through and the only thing I would recommend is finding out WHY your daughter feels this way and listen to what she has to say.

[pyrogen]

Sk8, this is just terrible.

I cannot abide by doing this. I broke up with both of my partners, ultimately, over their treatment of my parents and it's something that's a ground rule in the future (must treat my parents with respect).

I am living with them for the time being (at 37) but you know what? They don't have to do that. I am getting to complete my college education because of them, instead of being out there competing for the same sucky jobs I had been doing, and I'm grateful for this. I hadn't been happy before and now i have a real chance to move forward in my life.


I really, really want to make enough money to help them out and one of my "millionaire dreams" is to buy them a house of their own in a place where they would like to live. Not having to worry about them, would take a lot off of my mind.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Same one as you, if I recall correctly.

I thought Sarah is in New Zealand though?

Aren't you in Singapore?

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

I haven't participated here in a while, but this particular issue just galls me:
When I was a child, the 'adult's thinking was: Cant wait 'til she can take care of herself. - Then at age 13 I was sent to the USA, where at only age 15 I was forced by mom to work FULL-time, while just starting hi-school (& for the only time in school, I started failing because I was comatose during school hours, because of working daily from 1500-2340. <- That is child-abuse on so many levels.
Then,
the very daughter, who I protected (from being by the AMA aborted), and who I lovingly nurtured & raised, & homeschooled on sheer FUN, so she could graduate from college with honors while only 17, - when she got married, she said to me: "Mom should anything ever happen to you, you can't come here to recover. Sorry."

So, because of medical malpractice I have needed a place where in fact I can recover. I can't even begin to describe, what it feels like to be abandoned, no less by the very people who you gave your life for, to protect.

Well, this is just another post to explain why I don't much come here anymore, aside the fact that most people don't bother responding, at the same time that I have positively encouraged so many here.

Oh well, carry on!

You chose to create a child. That's one of the first things that gets people out of families. Guilt. It's always the guilt of " I raised you! I put all my time and money into you! I deserve respect and for you to take care of me". I'm sorry, but it doesn't work like that. You're child didn't abandon you. They went on to have their own life. Isn't that why you raised her? I don't understand this whole concept of having a child to take care of so that you have someone to take care of you. It happens all over the world, which is why we are so overly populated. People having kids so that they can bring money in for the family, or so that they have someone to love and love them back.

lol tho I doubt my post will encourage you to come on here more, it's how I feel about the situation. I had the same guilt trip by my parents, and I hated it. Always telling me that all the work they put into me, means I should take care of them when they get old.