subjective reality!!!!

[Rosie]

Subjective reality has had a dramatically mixed response.

There are a few questions I have yet to find satisfactory responses to.

Are other people conscious?
If not, how does it differ from solipsism?
Does the world continue on after your death?

[Paul C]

What do you mean by 'other people'? Just answering this question could reveal much about about what you're trying to understand. For example, other people could be considered other bodies, therefore other minds. But you're not your mind. The ego is of the mind, you (consciousness) use the mind, it doesn't use you (unless of course you have identified your existence as being the mind).

So the answer to your first question would be- yes, everyone (and everything) is conscious to some degree. So I wouldn't consider it solipsism, because no one 'person' is all there is.

As for the last question- I would have to say that it does, but at the same time doesn't, allow me to explain. The body is within consciousness according to subjective reality. That being said the world (produced by consciousness) would continue on, but now with one less human. On the other hand, that individuals personal perception of reality will either be cast into oblivion, or, they will continue onto a different plane of existence. And from what I've heard before, the ego can survived this funny enough.

Which then leads one to consider- is the mind only a product of the brain, or is it something more universal than that of the brain? Possibly a soul of sorts?
(for the lack of a better word to describe it)

What we must remember though is that words within themselves are very limited in being able to describe something so potent as reality. It becomes more of a matter of direct experience than some explaining it to you, which can only be effective to a point.

I hope that sorted some thing out, meaningful day to you.

[Rosie]

Merci beaucoup

What do other people think?

[absvan]

Rosie,

Did you learn a particular subject or concept just by reading a few articles?? Reading a few articles written by Steve wont help you master SR. You have to read more and practice/experience it. Go through this thread SR and Responsibility
I also posted a few books, which if read will help you understand SR.

As for your questions -

There is only one consciousness and that is YOU (capital letters). The you(small letters for the physical body) is not the real you but a manifestation of your consciousness.

After your death the knower of you dies but your consciousness continues to exist because your consciousness was never born and never died.

You dont know what other people think. Everybody has their own reality but all of that exists only in YOUR consciousness.

This is my 2 cents.....

[Rosie]

What you're saying then is that everybody is conscious and has their own seperate reality. I am one character inside consciousness's dream.

[absvan]

No. I said that only YOU are conscious, the capital YOU or in other words YOU are what is or has been. Everything else is susceptible to change.

Let me explain this with an example. Lets say that you go to sleep and you are dreaming. In the dream there is your character. In the dream you are interacting with other people. Do you see what they are thinking??? Do you know anything other than that which you are seeing in your dream??? Also you are not the "you in the dream" but the person who is dreaming/sleeping. The "you in the dream" is a manifestation of your dream. In the dream if you happen to experience death, what happens???????

This is what will happen --->The "you in the dream" died. But the real you who is dreaming suddenly wakes up to find that you were only dreaming. Before the dream, while dreaming and after the dream, you never changed. But the people/events in the dream changed and ceased to exist when you died. Now the question you need to ask yourself is "What if life itself is a dream?"....and you havent woken up yet...........

Hope that helps....

[Max Power]

Have you ever had a dream that was so real, what if you couldn't wake from that dream, how could you tell the dream world from the real world?

A quote from the Matrix pretty much sums up SR.

It's all a dream, your entire physical reality is just a dream, you are the dreamer controlling the whole thing, you are consciousness creating everything in the dream including your physical body/mind, other people and everything else.

Some would argue that physical reality is so very dense and so seemingly real it can't be a dream, but where do you go when you're alseep? Isn't that the true you? The consciousness creating an artificial environment at will? Couldn't you also be creating this physical environment at will?

I think to understand SR you need a shift in the way you see your true identity.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...-or-awareness/

Awareness is my real identity. This awareness is timeless and exists only in the present. I’m aware of the past and of the future, but my past and future selves are still ego projections. My true identity is that I’m aware, and I’m aware of my awareness right now, which means I’m self-aware.

Power to the Max
==============================================
"9 out of 10 people prefer Max Power to ordinary power"
==============================================

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Rosie

What you're saying then is that everybody is conscious and has their own seperate reality. I am one character inside consciousness's dream.

From a true SR POV, you're not the character, you are consciousness creating all the characters.

SR works from an awareness/consciousness POV, not a mind/body POV. Mind/body, everything is a projection and/or a creation of consciousness, your consciousness.

Max

[Rosie]

Ohhhh I understand. When you say everything is happening in your consciousness...you mean that it is eqaully everyone's consciousness, a shared collective dream, and we are all one?

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Rosie

Ohhhh I understand. When you say everything is happening in your consciousness...you mean that it is eqaully everyone's consciousness, a shared collective dream, and we are all one?

I disagree. Look at the movie "The Matrix". Where was the world of the matrix unfolding? Meaning, there were millions of people inside pods. Each pod had a jack directly into their brains. Each of these people were being fed stimuli to make them THINK that they are in a world called the Matrix. Inside that world Two people would go to work and the Matrix would feed the stimuli to both people so that when one person would talk, the other person's brain would "receive" that thought and respond to it.

However, lets say that one person in the Matrix kicks you. He doesn't REALLY kick you, just the thought of him kicking you enters your brain and you think you got kicked so you feel pain as if you did. However, you didn't really get kicked. If you realized you were inside a matrix, people could kick you, but you could CHOOSE not to respond to the stimuli realizing that you're safe in your pod and nobody can really kick you inside the matrix.

So, in essence, YOU create your own world inside your head. So does the other person. When that person kicks you, in his world you SHOULD feel pain, but in your world you can choose not to.

Just thinking of it this way, introduces so many complications already, like who's "world" is really in existance? If you're in one room and I'm in the other and we don't see eachother, does the furniture in my room exist in your reality and does the furniture in your reality exist in mine?

Let's say that there was a master hypnotist and he had a TV show that was broadcast to EVERYONE on earth at the same time. Like EVERY SINGLE person watched it, without missing a single person. Even the hypnotist watched it and it had the same effect on him too, he was that good. Lets say that hypnotist HYPNOTIZED everyone and told them that they will erase the existance of a planet called PLUTO from their memory and consciousness and it will not exist to them anymore. Would PLUTO disappear?

If it did disappear, what would happen if one person missed watching the show? Would PLUTO re-appear for everyone, or just that one person?

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by impaul99

Just thinking of it this way, introduces so many complications already, like who's "world" is really in existance? If you're in one room and I'm in the other and we don't see eachother, does the furniture in my room exist in your reality and does the furniture in your reality exist in mine?

You remember Jane Roberts and Seth?
Let's say we are in the same 'room' with a 'chair'.

The chair exists in your own universe, and the chair exist in my own universe.
We forget this and say there's one universe (hence the word uni-verse) with one chair.

The more people are in that room, the more chairs there are.

Originally Posted by impaul99

Let's say that there was a master hypnotist and he had a TV show that was broadcast to EVERYONE on earth at the same time. Like EVERY SINGLE person watched it, without missing a single person. Even the hypnotist watched it and it had the same effect on him too, he was that good. Lets say that hypnotist HYPNOTIZED everyone and told them that they will erase the existance of a planet called PLUTO from their memory and consciousness and it will not exist to them anymore. Would PLUTO disappear?

If it did disappear, what would happen if one person missed watching the show? Would PLUTO re-appear for everyone, or just that one person?

Good point.
For that one person Pluto would exist, and of course with the present mental atmosphere, he'd head straight for the straight jacket.

[absvan]

Originally Posted by Rosie

Ohhhh I understand. When you say everything is happening in your consciousness...you mean that it is eqaully everyone's consciousness, a shared collective dream, and we are all one?

There is no you, we etc. There is just me or I - which is the consciousness. I is not the body-mind. So the statement "Everything is happening in my consciousness" also includes my body which is in my consciousness. My consciousness is the container of everything including my body and I am the consciousness.

You have to stop identifying yourself as your body to understand SR.

[tencat]

Another example is for instance when you are dreaming but you actually know you are in a dream and sometimes because you know you are dreaming you find you can do things you could not normally do like fly for example...............So if that can happen in a 'dream', and assuming the state at which we are in now is also a 'dream', then becoming aware of this could able us to manifest things that we thought were 'impossible' in our reality.
Because we know in our dreams we can do and be anything, does it stand to reason that the same is true for the reality we are in now?

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by absvan

There is just me or I - which is the consciousness.

There is also me or I, so now there are two 'I's.

[absvan]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

There is also me or I, so now there are two 'I's.

Hahahaha... There is only one I. I am not sure how you came up with two I's.

If you are taking about objective reality, then there are two bodies which represent absvan and infinitethoughts, and they both call themselves I. In this context each 'I' has its own mind, senses and a consciousness which is nothing but whats going on inside the head of the bodies.

If you are talking about SR, there is only I, the consciousness which can be described as omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. Absvan and Infinitethoughts are bodies within the I. The body Absvan is used to have a first hand objective experience. (I am not sure if "used" is the correct word in the last sentence) But you should get the point here.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by absvan

represent absvan and infinitethoughts, and they both call themselves I.

So there are two "I's".
You said it, I didn't.

[absvan]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

So there are two "I's".
You said it, I didn't.

I think you dont read my whole post. I have prefixed that sentence with "If you are taking about objective reality"............and in the next paragraph I have mentioned how it is in SR.

[dhammapal]

“Because those truths about things outside: you never really know.
There’s that whole issue:
“Does the world really exist outside the information we get through our senses?”
That’s one of those issues the Buddha said “Don’t Go There!”
What we can know though is what we directly experience in terms of suffering and stress. You know when the mind is suffering, you can tell when it’s not.”
Dhamma Talks by Thanissaro Bhikkhu of Wat Metta
4m6s Truth as Medicine.mp3

[DaveTyler]

Everybody got a body a mind, feelings, free will, thoughts and yes what a miracle THEIR CONSCIOUS LIKE YOU.
Problem with teaching SR is that itll automatically go to peoples strong ego's most people on here is here for seeking ego desires.
Consciousness comes through the crownchakra, WE ALL got that so stop playing stupid... You cant seee others thoughts, and they cant see yours.. ************ you learned this reality in kindergarden...

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

most people on here is here for seeking ego desires.

.....and that is why you are here, Dave.
To desire and live Life.

Go out and live.

[DaveTyler]

So you dont believe in oness?

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

So you dont believe in oness?

Good question!

Got a couple of things to take care off and will be back later this morning.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

So you dont believe in oness?

Well not in the traditional sense of 'becoming "one", with the oneness', and all that that implies.
If you become one with something, what happens to you as you know yourself?

I think we all are 'one', but individuals.
I guess one could say like a 'family'. (To use limited physical vocabulary.)

The reason I say this is, again;
In an infinite system, everything is infinite.

[DaveTyler]

Oness doesnt mean sameness

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Oness doesnt mean sameness

So you're agreeing with me, yes?

[roxyruby]

what is the point of life if everything is a dream and other people are a projection of my thoughts? "The point is to have fun! " "The point is to have relationships with yourself!"

If that was true I would want to die because life would be nothing without other people, to me, they are so important to my life and I love them so much.

[Happybird]

Originally Posted by Rosie

Subjective reality has had a dramatically mixed response.

There are a few questions I have yet to find satisfactory responses to.

Are other people conscious?
If not, how does it differ from solipsism?
Does the world continue on after your death?

Personally, I don't see the link between the whole "subjective reality" thing and "conscrious". There is nothing subjective about reality in itself. Only the way we perceive reality is subjective. Brainwashing yourself into believing that there is no objective reality, and that you create reality with your mind in some way may possibly yield you some positive results. Good luck with that

However, I personally feel that this approach is a path away from consciousness. Consciousness is awareness of the way things are. Awareness of the subjectiveness of your perception, awareness of the world through your subjective perception, awareness of the emotions and thought patterns in your own mind.

Subjective reality is just make believe. It´s like religion. You believe it works, not because you can test it (because that would be, you know, objective, ugh ) but because you believe it works. Just like religious people believe that God help them and talks to them, when they believe She does. Ever noticed how hard it is to convince a true believer (say, a fundamentalist Christian) of the nonsensical parts of his or her faith? It's near to impossible. The same goes for believers in subjective reality. Both deny that scientific objectivity has anything to say about their reality (e.g. that the theory of evolution proves that humans were not created as humans).

Subjective reality puts a filter on your perception, that makes you ignore stuff which does not fit the "subjective reality" pattern, and focus attention on the stuff which confirms it. Subjective reality makes you partially blind. It may be a mellow happy blindness, of an exlusive special blindness for the special few if you brainwash yourself well enough, but it is still blindness.

I enjoy the clarity of mind which a sceptical and "scientific" viewpoint brings and think that belief in subjective reality is just plain naive. But if you want to believe that all kinds of nice things will happen to you just by wishing for it, go ahead Whatever makes you happy.


The word "subjective" is meaningless in a subjective reality

Ever thought about that?

[Andrew Brunelle]

I really like the concept of subjective reality. Whenever I adopt this mindset, I feel much better about everything in my life, because everything I experience is my life. Everything that passes through my awareness is me and it's a fantastic state to be in. From Steve's book, the concept of Oneness really fits into this. Whether or not the belief system is actually accurate, the empowerment it gives you is amazing. It's definitely a powerful belief system. Responsibility is paramount. But it is no matter what belief system you have.

[aphorist]

Originally Posted by Happybird

Subjective reality puts a filter on your perception, that makes you ignore stuff which does not fit the "subjective reality" pattern, and focus attention on the stuff which confirms it. Subjective reality makes you partially blind. It may be a mellow happy blindness, of an exlusive special blindness for the special few if you brainwash yourself well enough, but it is still blindness.

I enjoy the clarity of mind which a sceptical and "scientific" viewpoint brings and think that belief in subjective reality is just plain naive. But if you want to believe that all kinds of nice things will happen to you just by wishing for it, go ahead Whatever makes you happy.

I agree that SR is a limiting lens on consciousness... but so is the skeptical/scientific viewpoint, right?

[bluedragon]

I have a question. When Steve recorded the podcast about the true nature of reality, he talked about the reason why there are limits to what we can manifest (and how fast we can change our reality). He said we are like a programmer who has to take responsibility for what he has created so far and he can't just get up from his desk and say "I quit"
Could someone elaborate on that? Why do we have to take responsibility for what we've created? Why can't we decide to change at least a small part of it instantly?