Subjective Reality = psychosis

[DaveTyler]

There are other forms of psychosis... when the power of thought to create reality becomes more active, the Zen master goal of a silent mind becomes an important tool for staying safe. What you focus on, will grow. If you focus on aliens coming in their Lightships to save the world, for example, you can create/travel into that reality, and manifest countless synchronicities to validate your beliefs. Is it true? It is true for you, at the time... but ask yourself, do you really want to live in a reality like that?

from: Kundalini-teacher.com. Doctors.


This is what Steve tries to learn you, how to go psychotic, ALL ON YOUR OWN.
Please stay away from this lunatic explaination of reality

[Akashic_Librarian]

Dave...

I...erm...I am not really sure what to say. If you listen to Steve you'll learn that...oohh ermm...listen to his Podcasts and then come back and denounce our evil ways ok?

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

[i]


This is what Steve tries to learn you, how to go psychotic, ALL ON YOUR OWN.
Please stay away from this lunatic explaination of reality

Taking your title Subjective Reality = psychosis, I gotta ask you....so you think your experiencing reality Objectively?

Think twice before answering.

[The David]

Your problem isn't so much that you don't understand SR, but that you don't understand psychosis.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by The David

Your problem isn't so much that you don't understand SR, but that you don't understand psychosis.

Well in the context of how David Tyler worded his post and your response, I'm gonna ask you:
Are you experiencing reality Objectively?

Then we'll talk.

[The Universal Call]

Yawn, what a load of bull.. Why even make this thread? I'm just talking to myself anyway (a part of me, yes..) so like infinitethoughts insinuate, unless you guys are conscious as well just drop this thread. It's not benefiting me and my consciousness. If all of you are SRs there's no point in arguing with you all anyway, you all know you are the conscious one. Where's the end of that really? No end I say, so since I'm the conscious one then maybe you all should just drop this thread dead, I don't want to for hours and hours argue about this with myself.

[DaveTyler]

Well, if u believe people fly and they suddenly do, sorry but thats psychosis...
Subjective experience/perception of objective reality yeah.there is only 1 reality, all other is illusions.
That reality, when u see that clear without your ego perceptions, then your enlightening
Burrying yourself in subjective reality and believing ur the only conscious person in existance, i dont know how u even find that appealing

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Well, if u believe people fly and they suddenly do, sorry but thats psychosis...
Subjective experience/perception of objective reality yeah.there is only 1 reality, all other is illusions.
That reality, when u see that clear without your ego perceptions, then your enlightening
Burrying yourself in subjective reality and believing ur the only conscious person in existance, i dont know how u even find that appealing

Well here's my take on it.
If there is only one reality then everyone should have the same perceptions.
Right?
I mean following the logic of saying, there is one universe, means just that, one. Undivided.

But thats clearly not the case. We say there is one universe, but then we see all these people who have all these differing viewpoints, which then means it's not one universe but more so a multiverse. Everyone has their own universe, or point of view.

Whats interesting is you say you are subjectively percieving an objective universe.

How would you know?
How would you know, if all you can percieve is from a subjective state ?
Just because we've been told, there is an objective universe ?

Interesting stuff to think about.

[Mr.Mustache]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

There are other forms of psychosis... when the power of thought to create reality becomes more active, the Zen master goal of a silent mind becomes an important tool for staying safe. What you focus on, will grow. If you focus on aliens coming in their Lightships to save the world, for example, you can create/travel into that reality, and manifest countless synchronicities to validate your beliefs. Is it true? It is true for you, at the time... but ask yourself, do you really want to live in a reality like that?

from: Kundalini-teacher.com. Doctors.


This is what Steve tries to learn you, how to go psychotic, ALL ON YOUR OWN.
Please stay away from this lunatic explaination of reality

Explain why it is psychotic. Or do you think outrage is enought to prove your point. Who says SR necessarily means that there is no conscious person beside yourself? That is Steve's explaination.

[DaveTyler]

I see Steve has changed his view on subjective reality to a more normal way of thinking again...
No its not a multiverse, its ONE universe, if I killed you, the only thing that would dissapear was YOU, YOUR VIEW of the universe, your beliefs, you are not the universe how incredibly ego can one become
I think Steve tried to make people realie their not their ego's but described it wrong and it made it seem like Ego is god.
You see, if me and you was in a room, if you got highfever and saw hallucinations on the wall, that would appear in your mind, not in reality.
Just as if u take ur finger infront of your eye and push it further and further away, it doesnt change size in the universe, but in your perception it does.
make sense?

Enlightenment is about getting rid of all the beliefs, all subjectivity and become ONE, then u have no thoughts, no beliefs no opinions, ur just in the moment, so you dont really know theres gravity except u experience it in the now, so therefor he knows.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

I see Steve has changed his view on subjective reality to a more normal way of thinking again...
No its not a multiverse, its ONE universe, if I killed you, the only thing that would dissapear was YOU, YOUR VIEW of the universe, your beliefs, you are not the universe how incredibly ego can one become
I think Steve tried to make people realie their not their ego's but described it wrong and it made it seem like Ego is god.
You see, if me and you was in a room, if you got highfever and saw hallucinations on the wall, that would appear in your mind, not in reality.
Just as if u take ur finger infront of your eye and push it further and further away, it doesnt change size in the universe, but in your perception it does.
make sense?

Enlightenment is about getting rid of all the beliefs, all subjectivity and become ONE, then u have no thoughts, no beliefs no opinions, ur just in the moment, so you dont really know theres gravity except u experience it in the now, so therefor he knows.

I'm not Steve, by the way. Look at my sig.

Using the example of killing someone.
Person A, unless he pulls that reality into his reality, won't experience that.
Person A lives his life by the beliefs he has.

Now if Person A feared that, then the chances would increase it to happen.

Enlightenment is about getting rid of all the beliefs, all subjectivity
Think about this.

How would you get rid of subjectivity when percieving/observing ?

[DaveTyler]

It can't be described really, you'll still be a individual body, looking out individual eyes, but you'll be the universe. u'll feel that your the universe, no seperation, and you'll laugh at all the ego's.
It's not easy to describe, I experienced it once, but couldnt go through with it cause I knew if I let it happen I would die, ME would die.
Enlightenment is about killing the "you", cause there is no "you" "you" is images you make in the head as you go on with your day, you dont really exist though.
"I think therefor I am" or some ************

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

<insert Dave’s posts about subjective reality here>

Knifes are good.

What on earth am I on about? Well, depending on how you interpreted that above statement, you’ll draw one of many possible conclusions that will be added to the mental model you have -- or just created -- of me. You may conclude that I have some fascination with knifes and am mentally unstable. You may conclude that I believe knifes are tools I consider to be useful (eg. for cutting food, etc). You may conclude that the statement is merely 3 words and doesn’t accurately describe my identity at all.

Either way, whatever you conclude, it’s quite likely your mental model you hold of me based on your interpretation of my 3 word statement above will be inaccurate. Now you may or may not have considered this, but judging by your above posts on subjective reality, I’d say you probably didn’t.

What I am getting to is this: Our interpretation of what we see, read, listen to, hear, and smell, etc, is not actually “what is”. It is our interpretation of “what is” based on our perceptions -- the filters that determine our particular experience of reality. For more info on that, see this post.

Based on what I read of your above posts, I would make the assumption that you conclude Steve's psychotic (assuming you believe Steve practices what he preaches... I’m not saying you’ve called Steve psychotic, though). But nonetheless -- and there is no getting around this -- your conclusion is based on an interpretation of Steve’s writing... an interpretation that may or may not be accurate.

So anyway, I'm not saying that you're wrong, Steve's right, or anything like that. What I'm saying is that it may be worth relaxing a bit when it comes to the whole “This is what Steve tries to learn you, how to go psychotic, ALL ON YOUR OWN” front.

And besides, whether or not Steve actually is psychotic doesn't really bother me -- if I find his writing helpful, psychotic or not, I'll still read it.

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

It can't be described really, you'll still be a individual body, looking out individual eyes, but you'll be the universe. u'll feel that your the universe, no seperation, and you'll laugh at all the ego's.
It's not easy to describe, I experienced it once, but couldnt go through with it cause I knew if I let it happen I would die, ME would die.

I think it can be described, but only if those you describe it to understand that the words you describe it with are merely pointers to the experience. Labels (ie. descriptions) point to an experience, but are never actually the experience itself.

And I believe that’s how our understanding of communication/language works. When somebody says, “I'm wet” (get your mind out of the gutter, people ), it is your experience of what it feels like to be wet that you relate to, not the label itself.

When you communicate with “labels” instead of “labels that point to a personal experience”, there is no real communication, and the beauty of life gets shrouded by a web of lifeless mental labels. It’s as foolish as thinking you are in the city of New York simply because you see a sign in front of you that says, “New York, 200 miles ahead”.

Communication of this type can lead people to believe that because they understand the label that points to an experience, they understand an experience. That’s like thinking because you’ve seen what one dark room looks like when you turn on a light, you’ll know what another dark room looks like when you turn a light on. You may have an idea of what it will look like, but the room could be completely different to the one you’ve seen. You may have a general idea of what a dark room may look like if you turn the light on (eg. it won't be dark any more and you'll be able to see), but that's about the best you can do.

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Enlightenment is about killing the "you", cause there is no "you" "you" is images you make in the head as you go on with your day, you dont really exist though.
"I think therefor I am" or some ************

I believe that the "I" in that quote is merely another "you". You may be aware of your thinking, but your identity is not your thinking -- otherwise you wouldn’t be aware of it; you’d be completely caught up in it, much like a computer is caught up in the code it executes, unaware of what it is doing and unable to give birth to the questions such as "who am I" and mysteries that are common focal points for the self-aware human species.

[AidanMatthews216]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Well here's my take on it.
If there is only one reality then everyone should have the same perceptions.
Right?
I mean following the logic of saying, there is one universe, means just that, one. Undivided.

But thats clearly not the case. We say there is one universe, but then we see all these people who have all these differing viewpoints, which then means it's not one universe but more so a multiverse. Everyone has their own universe, or point of view.

Whats interesting is you say you are subjectively percieving an objective universe.

How would you know?
How would you know, if all you can percieve is from a subjective state ?
Just because we've been told, there is an objective universe ?

Interesting stuff to think about.

It's true that you can't know for certain there is any objective reality outside of your perceptions. However, that only makes sense when you consider that objects seem to be persistent--i. e., you stop observing them for a while, and they come back different in a logical way. (You don't see somebody for three years; when you next meet them, they look three years older.) That makes sense if reality is objective, because objects change and interact when you are not looking at them.

But what if there's just a very detailed *simulation* of objective reality going on inside your consciousness? That could also be true, but if so, is it meaningfully different from the objective reality model? If your consciousness is so complex and huge that it contains a complete, in-depth model, even including a model of *itself,* than how is that simulation any different from the real thing? It's like a map of a kingdom that is so detailed it's become as large as the kingdom itself. Which is the kingdom and which is the map?

[DaveTyler]

NO, you dont create reality, you guys believe life started when you were born?
Who gave you birth?

[Max Power]

Dave,

I sense that you are angry at Steve for showing you something that you cannot understand and/or are fearful of. Steve has a website, Steve has a small following, Steve likes to share his views. Why are you so obsessed with wanting to warn everyone away from Steve and his opinions?

Do you go to the nearest church and rant and rave to the followers there about how it's all so wrong? Your opinion and viewpoint is just as important as anything Steve could ever say, but the way you present your disagreement is reasonably objectional.

Your passion is admirable, but your presentation is lacklustre, make an opposing argument that is worthy of your aptitude.

Power to the Max

[DaveTyler]

NO, but subjective reality as described in that article is a trap towards enlightenment and can make u stuck for years even a whole lifetime.

[AidanMatthews216]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

NO, but subjective reality as described in that article is a trap towards enlightenment and can make u stuck for years even a whole lifetime.

Perhaps you would not be as hostile to SR if you did not become in your mind with a capitalized "NO."

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

It can't be described really, you'll still be a individual body, looking out individual eyes, but you'll be the universe. u'll feel that your the universe, no seperation, and you'll laugh at all the ego's.

Dave.
Interestingly.....isn't that the same as living in a "subjective reality" mindset?

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

It's not easy to describe, I experienced it once, but couldnt go through with it cause I knew if I let it happen I would die, ME would die.
Enlightenment is about killing the "you",......

This is pretty fascinating, cause just this morning having a Q & A with my ex wife, (everyone morning, we're doing thought exercises to know we are constantly, 24 hours a day, moving to the corresponding multi-verses, thru the thoughts we chose) we realized when you have a conversation in your head, you're talking to your physical self.
(Bruce brought this up breifly in his post above.)

You're physical self wants to be taken along, so to speak. In effect it doesn't want to 'die'.

Make peace with it, and massive doors open !

Fascinating stuff.

EDIT

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

NO, you dont create reality, you guys believe life started when you were born?
Who gave you birth?

Your physical self believes in birth, but not your I, which knows what infnity is.
Like I said, bring the physical self up to par on what's going on.
Then you won't have duality within yourselves (your 'I' and your physical self.)

--------

Originally Posted by AidanMatthews

But what if there's just a very detailed *simulation* of objective reality going on inside your consciousness?

I don't think there is an 'objective reality' because of who and what we are, namely we are 'infinity'.
In other words, this 'objective reality' continually comes from us, again because of who we are.

[The David]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Well, if u believe people fly and they suddenly do, sorry but thats psychosis...
Subjective experience/perception of objective reality yeah.there is only 1 reality, all other is illusions.
That reality, when u see that clear without your ego perceptions, then your enlightening
Burrying yourself in subjective reality and believing ur the only conscious person in existance, i dont know how u even find that appealing

1. Typos are alright, but 'u' and 'ur' are not words.

2. What you described is not subjective reality, it is Solipsism.

3. If I see people fly and you don't, how do you know you're right?

4. It would help tremendously if you would explain your understanding of psychosis. It's not a universally accepted term.

[Keith]

It has been said that a facet of high intelligence is the ability to hold multiple contradictory ideas/beliefs in your head simultaneously.

IMO, to subscribe only to subjective reality is a mistake. And so is subscribing to only objective reality.

If reality is even partly objective then belief in total subjectivity is non-functional (ie. 'insane'). And vice versa.

The trick lies in believing both to the extent that they work for you...

Originally Posted by theDavid

1. Typos are alright, but 'u' and 'ur' are not words.

Ur absolutely is a word.

Somewhat more disturbingly...