SR and Responsibility

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by absvan

I would say that in deep meditatin you feel oneness - Obsever is the observed. You would know that you are not your body and you use the body to experience life/earth/creation.

So, what if I feel oneness with nothingness? Am I, then, nothingness?
Parmenides, the pre-Socratic philosopher believed that the thinker and the thought become one. I disagree.
My field of awareness or perception (consciousness) is like a torch sweeping around in the darkness. It picks up things in the light. I see them, interpret them and create copies in my mind for future reference; but I am not those things which I perceive, conceive or create. They are just ephemeral thoughts or images, like clouds passing by in the sky.

[absvan]

Originally Posted by Cantando

So, what if I feel oneness with nothingness? Am I, then, nothingness?

I would leave that question to be answered by you. You will know the precise answer when you reach there.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Cantando

So, what if I feel oneness with nothingness? Am I, then, nothingness?

I feel oneness with everything I'm aware of, it's a very awesome feeling to sense yourself as no different than another person and/or everything that is in awareness. To see that you are just as created as all of creation in awareness.

Unless the terminology is wrong, to feel oneness with nothingness seems to contradict itself. Oneness would be all that is, like awareness, it's everything in awareness including itself. Nothingness implies a void, something uncreated.

Enjoy!
Max Power
"Don't think, know you can"

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by absvan

I would leave that question to be answered by you. You will know the precise answer when you reach there.

I know my answer - it's no, I am not nothingness. The true "I" may become submerged or forgetful but it never disappears. God makes sure of that.
I realize we are just playing around with nuances of meaning and definitions. If I am meditating in the garden, OK, I may reach a state where the normal ego self fades away and I 'seem' to become the garden. There is just 'garden' and no me. The sense of "I" as normal everyday me has gone, and perhaps I am then perceiving as higher self, the more true "I", bypassing the body and ego self.
But it still doesn't mean I AM the garden. If I was, what would people think when they came outside, looking for me. They may say, "Oh my God, look at him! He's turned into the garden. Is there a special number we can ring?"
I also claim that I am not the garden, because, if I was, I would be acutely aware of every leaf and blade of grass, which I am not.
Isn't it more the case that I am just suffusing my consciousness (field of perception) and presence into the garden, and because I am feeling so relaxed, there is an element of peace and contentment to it?
It is a temporary state, an experience.
If you believe you are the garden, what if a bomb suddenly hit it? What would you be then?

[absvan]

Originally Posted by Cantando

I know my answer - it's no, I am not nothingness. The true "I" may become submerged or forgetful but it never disappears. God makes sure of that.
I realize we are just playing around with nuances of meaning and definitions. If I am meditating in the garden, OK, I may reach a state where the normal ego self fades away and I 'seem' to become the garden. There is just 'garden' and no me. The sense of "I" as normal everyday me has gone, and perhaps I am then perceiving as higher self, the more true "I", bypassing the body and ego self.

You will know that you are not the body. Then what are you?? You are everything. You are all that is. The "You" here is not the body but pure awareness.

Originally Posted by Cantando

If you believe you are the garden, what if a bomb suddenly hit it? What would you be then?

This is why I said, you will know the answer when you get there..well if you are interested to reach there. Who said you will be the garden?? There wont be any you. No more identification with forms. Just pure awareness.

If a bomb hit you, the body-ego-senses will die.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by absvan

You will know that you are not the body. Then what are you?? You are everything. You are all that is. The "You" here is not the body but pure awareness.

I have known I am not a body since I was 7 years old. What made you think that I thought I was my body?
"You are everything. You are all that is". That is just the usual 'new age' dead-end, illusory view. It's starting to fray a bit at the edges. I am me, a unique and individual soul. I am not everything. I come from God, but I am not God. Why would anyone want to be everything anyway?

[absvan]

Originally Posted by Cantando

I have known I am not a body since I was 7 years old. What made you think that I thought I was my body?
"You are everything. You are all that is". That is just the usual 'new age' dead-end, illusory view. It's starting to fray a bit at the edges. I am me, a unique and individual soul. I am not everything. I come from God, but I am not God. Why would anyone want to be everything anyway?

I am not sure what you are asking. Looks like its something you will have to find out on your own.......People can give you a lot of answers. Until unless you experience it you wont know the truth. So you are right indeed...a lot of new agey words and conclusions....so what do we do?? We go on our own practical approach to see what is the truth.

BTW, what you call as new agey existed a long time ago probably even before Christ. When it came to the west people named it new age.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by absvan

Until unless you experience it you wont know the truth.

Unless I experience what exactly? Do you mean having an experience of total awareness? Is that what you had? If so, how do you know it was the truth?
Sorry about all the questions. I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from and why you are saying these things.

[absvan]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Unless I experience what exactly? Do you mean having an experience of total awareness?

You wanted to know what would happen in deep state of meditation. I told you my answer......and there is nothing else I have left to tell you. If you ask me how I know I am right, lets say I arrived at my conclusion after a lot of studying and reading. I have formed my belief based on what makes sense to me. Have I experienced pure awareness?? No I have not and I am still practicing what I studied.

If in the end I dont experience what I believed/studied, then I will replace what I learned earlier with what I experienced. Thats self discovery for me........

Similarly what will help you is your own experience.

[Lychee]

There are so many SR threads I'm losing track.

[Sunnybayes]

Originally Posted by Lychee

There are so many SR threads I'm losing track.

I agree. Because its not well defined people are just sucked into arguing about something that's not worth arguing because its just an approximation to help themselves out, and that its our best guess... but because its not well defined then people are open to arguing about nothing.

Here's what I mean by not being well defined.

I guess the point of discussing is to come to more understanding, but people out to learn how to do this in a better way. It does not help if you replace one fuzzy concept with another.