Steve Is Wrong, and Endangering His Readers

[Seth]

I don’t mean to start a flame war. I think if you read my comments with the same thoroughness as Steve’s articles, you will see my intentions are pure, and in line with promoting “personal development for smart people.” I admire and respect Steve and Erin, but I believe Steve’s views on subjective reality are promoting ignorance to the objective aspects of reality. Please read the article I linked to see how “subjective reality” puts you in danger, and we can discuss everyone’s opinions. I appreciate the intelligent and polite responses of Steve, Erin, and many forum members. Don’t you agree that anyone who flames me isn't doing very well with subjective reality?

[Brien]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

Also your statement that most smart people don't follow Christianity is absurd. 90 percent of Americans consider themselves Christians. So the "smart ones" are in that 10 percent? The US is a Christian Country. The former Soviet Union and now Russia is a atheist country. Unfortunately for them they never could understand that a socialist government doesn't do very well. They finally did but still can't get much accomplished. So, your little theory doesn't add up.

So. Capitalism = Christianity and Socialism = Atheism. Does it say that in the cut-and-dry Bible, too? What about Economic Success = Spiritual Enlightenment?

A little less bigotry please. You're better than that.

[777]

Originally Posted by Erock

There is no such thing as right or wrong, especially when discussing spirituality and belief systems.

Do I exist? Yes. Therefore is my answer to that right? It definately isn't wrong, as I am here writing this now.... So it is right.

As much as your statement is empowering when discussing spirituality for it encourages communicating different ideas, Jesus, the Buddha and many other highly evolved beings have spoken of only one true Reality, and that reality in which we exist is comprised of linear time where polarity does exist, so in my opinion, there is a right and a wrong, a true and a false.

Originally Posted by Seth

Here is the next step in your spiritual evolution:

Transcending the Control System: True Reality Creation (Part I)

In true matrix style, I can only show you the door. You must choose to walk through it.

Well I walked through it And I'd really recommend everyone else who is posting in this thread to walk through that door too and at least see what is on the other side before posting further. The article speaks a great deal of truth which really resonates with me and I'm sure will do so with many of you... As for the website it is posted on; there is a lot of information on there that repels me but I trust your intuition and higher self will guide you.

I do feel that article has brought my understanding much closer to the one true Reality that Jesus and the Buddha spoke of in their teachings, so thank you Seth

[Toine]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

When I write from a subjective point of view, my point of reference when I say "I" is consciousness itself, not one of its avatars who happens to be named Steve Pavlina.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I should really write a book on subjective reality.

Great idea! Just wondering if you ever considered using other terms for "Subjective Reality" and "I"? This might prevent some confusion and will perhaps set you aside from other non-related belief systems with which you are normally associated.

Will you write the book from an I consciousness perspective, from a Steve Pavlina perspective or both? And if the latter, would you make a distinction? If so, how?

[Brutha]

It is a dangerous belief system, Mr. Mustache, because while you are changing yourself into a better person, I can still come to your house and kill you. That is my free will. You can say “I love you, evil” as I kill you, but you will still be dead.

No, as a matter of fact you can't.
The amount of people who can kill someone to prove a point is very small.
It requieres a lot of conscious decisions and you are probably not capable to make such decisions.

[Steve Pavlina]

When writing articles I try to avoid inventing tons of new vocabulary, preferring to use English terms that fit closely enough. I definitely lose some precision, but it keeps the ideas more accessible to casual readers. I want to avoid the situation of barricading ideas behind a wall of terminology.

Some "spiritual" communities, like Scientology or the integral community that surrounds Ken Wilber's work, have their own vocabulary that gives members a sense of belongingness. It's hard to understand their writings unless you learn the lingo first, which takes time. This approach creates a strong line between insiders and outsiders. It isn't hard to see why custom vocabularies are one of the top signs of a cult.

I want my articles to be freely accessible, so I'm willing to accept a loss of precision and as well as the occasional flames (which invariably come from people who've never even met me, yet assume they know me intimately just from my articles). I can always write books to cover topics in more depth.

[Cas]

Originally Posted by Seth

Cas, I totally understand where you’re coming from, and there is a huge subjective component to reality. If you’re in prison, you can choose to like it. But if you choose to believe you’re not in prison, you’re consciously choosing ignorance. That is your choice, but you’ll have to go to the “personal development for ignorant people forums.”

Well yeah... it's your choice to perceive it as either a school or a prison.

[Kazeko]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

The US is a Christian Country. The former Soviet Union and now Russia is a atheist country. Unfortunately for them they never could understand that a socialist government doesn't do very well. They finally did but still can't get much accomplished.

Hmmm... interesting. I am from Russia and I completely disagree with you. Both USA and Russia are multinational countries, with large set of cultures and beleifs. I can tell, that most of the Russians consider themselves Christians. Most of them are "just formally baptized", but I guess it is a common situation in the World. "There are many called ones, but much less chosen ones".

Soviet Union - yes, Soviet people were forced to be atheists since their childhood. (If you were not atheist, you were the enemy of the Communist Party, with all the consequences, like prison or death - so you can imagine...).

When "democracy came to our land", it became very popular, "to go back to our roots", to our history, to restore demolished churches, to beleive in God and to pray. Every Christmas and Easter you can see all-channel TV translation showing our President and government in the church.

As for "they finally did but still can't get much accomplished" - you should see Russia back in 1995 and compare it with Russia today. We have accomplished A LOT...

So if you want to know about Russia - ask Russian

... never had an idea my first post would be something like that... anyway, thanks for getting me started!

[Amadeus]

Kazeko, I can't tell you how happy it makes me feel when I read your comments about Russia today. I had no idea that so many Russians are embracing Christianity.

As for earlier comments, of course I know that Capitalism does not equal Christianity. However, a Capitalistic country usually gives people the freedom for people to worship the way they want to. This is the basis of the US government. It was founded by Christians that wrote freedoms in our government to allow people to worship whomever they wanted.

[absvan]

Originally Posted by Seth

You don't think limiting your understanding of life to one book is ignorant? Understand the Bible, and then read something else and understand that, too.

I think you need to read more about Subjective Reality/Advaita Vedanta. I believe you have only read Steve's post and then come to the conclusion that its crap.

Why dont you take time to drop your objective lens, learn about subjective lens and try to see reality through subjective lens.?If you dont find it to be congruent with your belief system, then put back your old lens and carry on with you life.

[Akashic_Librarian]

Well yeah... it's your choice to perceive it as either a school or a prison

They're the same thing arn't they?


Personally I think people are getting a little silly on this topic. I was going to post something earlier. But something kicked in, in my head, I thought it would just be stupid to say something. I was angry then and i guess thats why. I would hae attacked someone stupidly and you know how it goes....


So here is what I think.


Using different beliefs to look at the world is empowering. It allows you to gain a fuller picture of what is happening around you. Its like looking at a pyramid from different sides. Each side reveals a new dimension to it and allows you to build a 3D model. If you only view one side all you will see is a 2D model...

[ballhit]

Steve hides behind subjective reality a lot. I don't believe it's unintentional.

Steve experienced God-consciousness once (perhaps he does so on a daily basis due to his advanced stages of brain play) I forget the exact post but he described being outside looking at a bird or a flower or something and his consciousness ballooned.

Big deal.

He shifts back and forth between i and I. Sometimes it's the nerdy ex polyphasic-sleeping marathon runner who probably can't dance that well. Sometimes it's God-consciousness being channeled through one intelligent typist monkey. Do not forget that Pavlina LLC is for-profit, and whatever is written here generates that profit.

Cults also chant mantras. "Subjective Reality" sounds like a panacea to me. Maybe I'm just an arsehole for disagreeing with Steve Pavlina...that seems to be the type of response people get when they do such a thing. But it's okay because i'm just contradicting myself. (subjective ha ha ha)

Solipsism = RIDICULOUS

He embodies Advaita Vedanta in that everything is one thing. But he wants to grow anyway.

Unchecked Personal Growth Within A Consciousness Container (a human body) = CANCER

Get yours!

[Akashic_Librarian]

ballhit take a chillpill man.


Whats this about PD = Cancer?

I havn't died yet.

And the last time I checked steve doesn't want people to always agree with him, but to just take what they want from what he writes...


and pavlina LLC is a NON-profit company numb nuts. Do you see a $$$ sign anywhere?

[Seth]

Cas and Akashic_Librarian made very good points. You can choose to view something as a school or prison, but if you don’t understand both viewpoints, then you are naive. If you think it is only one way and refuse to question your beliefs, then you have consciously chosen ignorance. There is always another perspective to understand, another lens to try on. It is ignorant to refuse to try a new one because you are too attached to your current beliefs.

You can feel smart when you realize a 2D triangle is actually a 3D pyramid. But why stop there? I’m telling you now that there is 4D, and many more beyond that. You can no longer claim naiveté, so if you resist expanding your belief system then you are choosing ignorance.

So far I have a 100% approval rating from people who read the article I linked.

Originally Posted by 777

Well I walked through it And I'd really recommend everyone else who is posting in this thread to walk through that door too and at least see what is on the other side before posting further. The article speaks a great deal of truth which really resonates with me and I'm sure will do so with many of you...

I feel that article has brought my understanding much closer to the one true Reality that Jesus and the Buddha spoke of in their teachings so thank you Seth

You're welcome, 777! I'm so glad I could help someone improve their understanding of spirituality!

I look forward to hearing everyone's reply on that article.

[rini17]

Seth, thank you for linking the article, I am, too, often trying to materialize things by visualizations and to manipulate my inner feelings in desire to manipulate reality, and it doesn't work well.

But, for one I don't share your view on Steve's articles as dangerous. If I had experience of Oneness like him, maybe I'd looked to everything through subjective reality model too.( Maybe I hadn't such experience exactly for this reason ) But I am not going to forcefully twist my perception just because of his cool articles. Maybe there are people who will do, but it's their lesson to learn and I don't see need to protect anyone, reminding them is sufficient.

[SecretSeven]

Steve I hope you are not going to stop writing about subjective reality. Maybe consider writing a new revised blog of it to tell clear things up???

[SecretSeven]

Transcending the Control System: True Reality Creation (Part I)

This website seems like a cult site, Seth.

[Seth]

Why does it seem like a cult site, any more so than Steve's articles on subjective reality? I didn't see anything on that site that asked you to join a group. Just like Steve's articles, you are free to use the information as you see fit, or even ignore it.

[SecretSeven]

Maybe it is not a cult, but it contains a lot of imagination. Spiritual attacks, spiritual hiearchy, life is a dream...etc

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Seth

Just like Steve's articles, you are free to use the information as you see fit, or even ignore it.

Exactly. So why get all hot under the collar about what Steve says, then? Don't you trust the other readers to make their own evaluation?

(regarding the article you linked, I found it very ignorable. Just thought you'd like to include my data in your statistics. )

[SecretSeven]

Seth, you are saying that Steve's ideas are wrong, when the site you suggested is even more far fetched. Steve's ideas are just ideas.

[Seth]

Erin will tell you it’s not imagination. She is a psychic, after all. She makes a living connecting with people's angels, spirit guides, and deceased relatives, and relaying the information to you. Don't you think she'd be out of business pretty quickly if she had to imagine valid advice for every customer?

Please check out her website. I used to insist on ignorance and claim spirits and ghosts were fake, but now I have integrated them into my reality. As I improve my belief system, everything is becoming explainable. If you want to take a shorter route to explaining the universe, simply believe that the Bible is true and everything else is going to hell.