Inspired Relationships (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Inspired Relationships

[Criseyde]

Hey, how did you know what I've been thinking about?

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Hey, how did you know what I've been thinking about?

You were thinking very loudly.

[Grandiouse]

holy crap! relationships have been on my mind the past few days. Then this article shows up? How did this happen?!

Thanks for writing it, Steve!

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by Savage

You were thinking very loudly.

I never was too good at that "indoor voices" thing.

Good article though. Thanks.

[spacecadetglow]

Yeah! Nice one, Steve. I have been jiving with this line of thought myself... I love the way the article flows.

... I was going to ask you some questions but it's like I can already hear your answers in my head. I still have a lot of conditioning surrounding relationships, much of which needs updating, but a lot of it I don't really want to let go of. For some reason, I still want someone whom I can call my partner, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that for me. I'm currently traveling all over the country, though, so it seems like in many ways I've been learning about flow and the beauty of transitory connections. I'm not really in a place to settle with just one person nor do I want to be, but the universe just keeps sending me the right people at the right times. That doesn't mean it's all a cakewalk, like you said it's pretty challenging sometimes. Worth it in the end!

Thanks for the reminder about intuition, too. I had a bad feeling about some people I met at the wharf but I hung out with them anyway so I could get stoned. One of them was a real buttface to me later on. Intuition should be regarded over egoic desire...

[raskolnikov]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum, however, I've been reading the blog for a few years, so I'm only new to posting, not to reading.

This is perhaps sort of an arbitrary post to comment on, but one question for the author (and readers); do you ever think you might be overanalyzing things?

This is in no way meant in a sarcastic way. I am very much for thinking about how to live and I am a quite open person. However, I'm at the moment single and therefore naturally thinking a lot about relationships. I'm 29 now and have had girlfriends since I was 17 or 18. I've been living abroad for the last couple years and find myself in a difficult situation meeting girls I like, because of cultural differences.

So, as most other people living abroad, I compare my life to my friends' lives at home. And I've come to realize that (at least in my social circle) the happiest people are the ones that (seem to) think the least about personal growth. This isn't true for other areas such as health or work, but certainly for relationships.

I have myself been hesitant to marry or get kids because I want a stable career first. I'm self employed and in my case that means no pay, high risk of going broke, big goals and little time for anything besides trying to reach them.

Then I see my friends who got married when they were in their mid 20s. Many of them picked girls where I at the time thought whew, glad that's not me getting into that, but now they have villas, grill parties, play with the kids and develop in areas that I didn't even come to yet. Sure they have their own problems, but they at least have someone close. I still live in an apartment and get drunk with other single guys on weekends.

I see that a lot of people I know who just went with the flow and relationship-wise picked a non-perfect path being happy and content now while I'm still considering for and against getting serious with this or that girl. As opposed to just thinking 'OK, this is what we have, let's make the best of it'. This makes me think that perhaps nothing won't ever be perfect and that building on an imperfect base might be better that twisting your mind around lifestyle design to the point where none of the 'traditional' ways of interacting with people are enough?

In other words - concerning relationships, are 'stupid' people smarter than smart people? Is improving on the imperfect better than waiting for the perfect? Does all this abstraction and conscious choice pay off in the end?

Any thoughts on this?

Cheers

PS. Thumbs up to you Steve, for your inspiring blog.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

Yeah! Nice one, Steve. I have been jiving with this line of thought myself... I love the way the article flows.

... I was going to ask you some questions but it's like I can already hear your answers in my head. I still have a lot of conditioning surrounding relationships, much of which needs updating, but a lot of it I don't really want to let go of. For some reason, I still want someone whom I can call my partner, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that for me. I'm currently traveling all over the country, though, so it seems like in many ways I've been learning about flow and the beauty of transitory connections. I'm not really in a place to settle with just one person nor do I want to be, but the universe just keeps sending me the right people at the right times. That doesn't mean it's all a cakewalk, like you said it's pretty challenging sometimes. Worth it in the end!

Thanks for the reminder about intuition, too. I had a bad feeling about some people I met at the wharf but I hung out with them anyway so I could get stoned. One of them was a real buttface to me later on. Intuition should be regarded over egoic desire...

No reason you can't have a stable partner this way if it's what you need. Welcome into your life whatever is good for you.

I didn't mean to imply that you'd have to shift from a deep intimate connection with one person to lots of casual connections. That isn't how it's playing out for me.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by raskolnikov

This is perhaps sort of an arbitrary post to comment on, but one question for the author (and readers); do you ever think you might be overanalyzing things?

Yes. Analysis paralysis!

I see that a lot of people I know who just went with the flow and relationship-wise picked a non-perfect path being happy and content now while I'm still considering for and against getting serious with this or that girl. As opposed to just thinking 'OK, this is what we have, let's make the best of it'. This makes me think that perhaps nothing won't ever be perfect and that building on an imperfect base might be better that twisting your mind around lifestyle design to the point where none of the 'traditional' ways of interacting with people are enough?

I think you're right about building on an imperfect base. You have to do something sometime, otherwise you'll never do anything. (Wow. Profundity. I haz it.) You can't wait for all the stars to align, because they probably won't. Or even if they do, you'll be so much of a perfectionist that you'll be busy criticizing something other than the stars and you'll miss it.

The thing is... I've actually never met a traditional monogamous couple who stayed together for years and years that didn't care about personal growth. They might not have CALLED it that and they might have had other avenues to pursue it besides the ones on this website, but yeah -- the relationships that last "till death do us part," happily, are the ones where both work hard to be good partners to each other and to make it work. A laissez-faire approach doesn't seem to work in my observation.

In other words - concerning relationships, are 'stupid' people smarter than smart people? Is improving on the imperfect better than waiting for the perfect? Does all this abstraction and conscious choice pay off in the end?

I think there's another issue at work here. This probably isn't true in all cases, but I've noticed that a lot of people who are into PD have had some rough experiences in their lives, especially in childhood. Of course, a large percentage of the general population experienced childhoods that were less than ideal, so I am not really sure whether or not the percentage is any higher within the PD-verse, but to me it seems like it is. And that also makes sense to me, since people who don't really have big personal issues -- people whose lives are already working the way they want -- aren't going to be THAT interested in how to improve their lives/themselves, right?

Thing is, those who come from backgrounds with dysfunctional relationships are going to have to make an effort to learn how to have functional relationships. They didn't learn it through observation as children. And repeating the patterns that they *did* learn is pretty much guaranteed to fail, because those patterns are what made the backgrounds dysfunctional in the first place.

I don't think that this blog post is about waiting for the perfect, anyway. I think it's about letting go of the need for *a* "perfect" relationship, and just trying to improve your relationship with everything.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

I don't think that this blog post is about waiting for the perfect, anyway. I think it's about letting go of the need for *a* "perfect" relationship, and just trying to improve your relationship with everything.

Life is already perfect.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by Savage

Life is already perfect.

Thanks!

[raskolnikov]

Thanks for your reply Criseyde

Originally Posted by Criseyde

I don't think that this blog post is about waiting for the perfect, anyway. I think it's about letting go of the need for *a* "perfect" relationship, and just trying to improve your relationship with everything.

No, I agree that 'waiting for the perfect' is not the subject of this post. What I was pointing at was the whole idea of abstracting relationships to the point where it perhaps get so abstract and theoretical that we (be 'we' I probably mean 'I') get hesitant to choose?

I live in the ex Soviet Union where family patterns are very different from my home in Scandinavia. Here, people marry young, get kids young and are in many ways a lot more practical about their relationships. Things are in general much more traditional that in many Western countries. This is not meant in a negative way. I'm not try to rank one way of life over another.

But it's interesting to see how people here seem to be less concerned with perfect and more concerned with functional. In a lot of cases I've been very impressed with how very young people tend to make much more pragmatic decisions than we typically do in the West. In many Western countries, choices for young people are so endless that everyone tends to get confused about it. That's not the case here.

Could it be that a lot of the personal development people are pursuing in the West is not only a way of conscious growth but also a symptom of 'too much' choice?

Please don't misunderstand me here -- I am all for making conscious choices, but I'm at the same time concerned with how many choices we get as humans. Of course it sounds like giving up to just ask for the society to make choices for you, but can we get to a point where we are left with so much choice that it outguns our mental capability? Or can we just continue to question anything? Of course we can -- I do this myself, and many other people do too, but will it really make us more happy in the end?

I'm asking this as a question, I'm not trying to advocate that a conscious design of your own life it not good, because every logical part of my brain tells me that it is, but what I see and hear often tells me that it's not. I'm truly confused about it. (I'm still talking relationships and not other parts of life).

[FelineNostalgia]

aw I really liked this blog steve

When I was a teenager I had a bizarre series of dreams , they lasted a couple of years and I always went to the same place and met the same beings/people

There seemed to be a distinct partnership with one, there was no perfect or mr right about it per say, though it felt perfect. though I had sex with everyone in my dream (dont judge I was 15, and I wont lie I LUV SECKS DREAMZ lulz) or there was at leas loving, an intimate connection

It was almost like layering circles and the outer realtionships changing more so , but because there was a circulation I was able to give more to the one I was mainly connected to, and the love was undying, without fear, unconditional and limitless loyality. I know it sounds barking mad and it probably is

But it felt very real, still muchly as vivid as memorys of day to day life

and perhaps it was my subconcious putting my desires on a big LCD placard or spirit guides or whatever

my gut is giving a thumbs up to this idea, though I have never managed to master the system or atract people who feel the same, but im still a sapling

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by raskolnikov

No, I agree that 'waiting for the perfect' is not the subject of this post. What I was pointing at was the whole idea of abstracting relationships to the point where it perhaps get so abstract and theoretical that we (be 'we' I probably mean 'I') get hesitant to choose?

Sure, it's possible.

I live in the ex Soviet Union where family patterns are very different from my home in Scandinavia. Here, people marry young, get kids young and are in many ways a lot more practical about their relationships. Things are in general much more traditional that in many Western countries. This is not meant in a negative way. I'm not try to rank one way of life over another.

But it's interesting to see how people here seem to be less concerned with perfect and more concerned with functional. In a lot of cases I've been very impressed with how very young people tend to make much more pragmatic decisions than we typically do in the West. In many Western countries, choices for young people are so endless that everyone tends to get confused about it. That's not the case here.

Well... I'm American and I've never been behind the Iron Curtain (although I'd love to go!!), so I can't speak to that. But my mom is an Indian immigrant, so I have some experience with non-American norms. She's talked about this a bit: when she was growing up, in school, people were "tracked," so you had 15 year olds deciding what field they were going to be in for the rest of their lives. And of course, most marriages were (and often still are) arranged, and gender roles were very traditional.

Then again, my mother married a white American, so she shot most of those things to crap, haha. But I have some Indian friends whose parents, here, in this country, think that they're going to arrange marriages for them. (I think most of them have another thought coming. )

Compared to a setup like this, the choices that I face are absolutely staggering. When I think about that -- I feel like I can do anything. I kind of like that feeling -- I like the sense of opportunity. I'm not locked in to somebody else's model; I'm free to make my own way.

Could it be that a lot of the personal development people are pursuing in the West is not only a way of conscious growth but also a symptom of 'too much' choice?

Please don't misunderstand me here -- I am all for making conscious choices, but I'm at the same time concerned with how many choices we get as humans. Of course it sounds like giving up to just ask for the society to make choices for you, but can we get to a point where we are left with so much choice that it outguns our mental capability? Or can we just continue to question anything? Of course we can -- I do this myself, and many other people do too, but will it really make us more happy in the end?

I'm asking this as a question, I'm not trying to advocate that a conscious design of your own life it not good, because every logical part of my brain tells me that it is, but what I see and hear often tells me that it's not. I'm truly confused about it. (I'm still talking relationships and not other parts of life).

Sure, there have been studies done which show that the more choices a person has, the less likely they are to actually make a choice.

The important thing to realize in these situations is that statistics are meaningless at the individual level. What is stopping you from trying things out to see what works? Yourself, right? Are you afraid of failure? Life is about how well you bounce.

When I start to worry about all these choices, I listen to this song: "When you're learning to face the path at your pace, every choice is worth your while." -- Watershed, the Indigo Girls.

[Cochonette]

MERDE !

I should have read this article yesterday.

I dunno if I agree with all of it, as far as my own life goes... but I needed a reminder of how to get into the subjective reality mindset. I really need to work on this right now... new project. I think I am really ready for it now. My meditation skills have reached a great point, and... I just screwed up a budding friendship due to separation mentality. oh, boy!

[Asten]

Apparently several of us were thinking very loudly. Relationships have been on my mind a lot, after realizing I didn't like the labels I've been playing with.

Originally Posted by Savage

Life is already perfect.

Agreed!

In subtle ways I've been moving toward this sort of mindset, as I try to get away from scarcity thinking into abundance, and from separation into oneness. It seems like a natural consequence.

I can tell I've got a lot of reconditioning to do before I can truly delve into that mindset, but I'll certainly be encouraging the already present shift in that direction.

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by Savage

No reason you can't have a stable partner this way if it's what you need. Welcome into your life whatever is good for you.

I didn't mean to imply that you'd have to shift from a deep intimate connection with one person to lots of casual connections. That isn't how it's playing out for me.

So you're experiencing many, simultaneous deep connections right now? I'd say I'm connecting with a lot of people too.

In the past I've been romantically involved with more than one person at a time but it doesn't appeal to me for long term. I don't know though, I feel what you're saying about not putting all your eggs in one basket relationship-wise, I think that can be detrimental.

I'm semi-involved with someone right now and I dont really want to pursue anyone besides him, but sometimes I feel like I should have more irons in the fire in case it doesn't pan out. Then again, I don't want to make multiple romantic connections out of a fear based mentality.

I don't see myself capable of being polyamorous, though.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

So you're experiencing many, simultaneous deep connections right now? I'd say I'm connecting with a lot of people too.

In the past I've been romantically involved with more than one person at a time but it doesn't appeal to me for long term. I don't know though, I feel what you're saying about it putting all your eggs in one basket relationship-wise, I think that can be detrimental.

I'm semi-involved with someone right now and I do t really want to pursue anyone besides him, but sometimes I feel like I should have more irons in the fire in case it doesn't pan out. Then again, I don't want to make multiple romantic connections out of a fear based mentality.

I don't see myself capable of being polyamorous, though.

Romantic is just another label. So is depth. As soon as you label a connection as romantic or deep, you choke it from flowing into something more flexible.

From the subjective standpoint, all relationships are already deep from the get-go if you believe them to be. You can just dive in and start relating to someone as if you're already intimate. This is definitely taking some time to get used to, but that seems to be how it's playing out.

Just recognize that it's a dream, and intimacy is already established. Then notice how quickly the dream characters warm up to it and accept it.

If you want more "irons in the fire", it takes very little time to begin exploring new connections. All you do is shift your attention to whatever new desires you wish to experience, and then follow the guidance of inspiration in the moment.

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by Savage

Romantic is just another label. So is depth. As soon as you label a connection as romantic or deep, you choke it from flowing into something more flexible.

From the subjective standpoint, all relationships are already deep from the get-go if you believe them to be. You can just dive in and start relating to someone as if you're already intimate. This is definitely taking some time to get used to, but that seems to be how it's playing out.

Just recognize that it's a dream, and intimacy is already established. Then notice how quickly the dream characters warm up to it and accept it.

If you want more "irons in the fire", it takes very little time to begin exploring new connections. All you do is shift your attention to whatever new desires you wish to experience, and then follow the guidance of inspiration in the moment.

True that. I'm liking the label free approach for these transitory connections I'm making. A little ways down the road I'd still like to be called someone's girlfriend, but that is a conscious choice, not simply deferring to a societal expectation. Maybe in some cases it's about the relationship you have with the label. If you can make it a positive thing, why not?

I'm living in an ashram right now where no sexual relationships are allowed. So I don't know about putting more irons on the fire now! but it'll certainly be interesting to experiment with once I get out.

My favorite stuff of yours to read was always SR and relationships. You should write some more about it, maybe something about the process you've been through to make this shift. I want to know what's difficult for you, what you haven't yet perfected about this approach. Just an idea, really enjoying this topic. I think it was timely for many of us.

[Artelus]

Steve, or anyone else, really:

How do you live life as if it was a dream? How do you connect to people as if in a dream?

I can't relate well with experience to these subjective reality posts, as interesting as I find them to be, because I don't remember most of my dreams.

And in the dreams that I do remember, I take the role of the watcher. I watch events as they unfold, and watch myself feel a certain way. To make it simple, I'm not much of a dreamer at night.

But I really want to try this subjective reality thing. Whatever shall I do?

[Savage]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

My favorite stuff of yours to read was always SR and relationships. You should write some more about it, maybe something about the process you've been through to make this shift. I want to know what's difficult for you, what you haven't yet perfected about this approach. Just an idea, really enjoying this topic. I think it was timely for many of us.

One challenge is just remaining unattached to outcomes and letting go of expectations. The better I'm able to do that, the more I feel like I'm in the flow when I'm connecting with someone.

So even if I'm talking to someone about working together, or if I'm doing a phone consult, or if I'm meeting new people at a meetup, I push myself to remain open and see where the connections want to flow. They may lead down paths I never would have expected.

Relationships are always in motion, and they don't seem to like being locked down and labeled. That just stifles them.

Another challenge is getting used to all the ambiguity. I suspect that as I keep going down this path, I'll end up with numerous people in my life who could be classified with lots of different labels simultaneously, such as intimate friend, lover, activity partner, coworker, business contact, etc.

I'm already experiencing a lot of ambiguity, and it definitely takes some getting used to. My heart loves the feeling of openness, but my mind keeps wanting to lock things down by asking things like, "Are we going to do business together or not?" or "Are we going to end up in bed together or not?" or "Where does this person fit into my existing social network?"

I'm giving myself time to just get used to the ambiguity. There's a temptation to want to push things forward, so I can nudge people towards certain labels, but I'm doing my best to avoid that.

This ambiguity creates a certain positive tension. It's a feeling that good things are unfolding in each moment, but I can't predict where they're leading. It's like watching a suspenseful movie where you just don't know what's going to happen next.

[javamannen2]

"Granularity" (from Wikipedia):

The terms fine and coarse are used consistently across fields, but the term granularity itself is not. For example, in investing, more granularity refers to more positions of smaller size, while photographic film that is more granular has fewer and larger chemical "grains".

So, the term "too granular" is a bit ambiguous. "Too fine-grained" would convey the intended meaning more clearly.

Sorry for being such a poindexter...

[Savage]

Originally Posted by javamannen2

So, the term "too granular" is a bit ambiguous. "Too fine-grained" would convey the intended meaning more clearly.

How about granical?

[javamannen2]

Originally Posted by Savage

How about granical?

Well why not?

Granical = fine-grained.

...and...let's see...

Granicular = course-grained!

[pras]

Hi Steve,

The way I currently think about this is to imagine the sum total of my relationships with all the people in my life as if they’re a relationship with a single entity. I hope that makes at least some sense.

When I read the above lines, I felt like sharing the following video with you. I think you will love it:

YouTube - ‪Sadhguru & Shekhar Kapur - On Love‬‏

-pras

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Savage

Life is already perfect.

The way life is perfect is that it is continuously getting perfected.

[wolfgang]

To further open myself to a better relationship with life, I’ve relaxed my intentions by not asking for much. I just hold the intention that life will bring me all that I need to feel happy and fulfilled, and it will receive my gifts in return. Then I relish in the delicious mystery of wondering how this will manifest, staying present to whatever opportunities arise and flowing with them as they do.

Consequently, it seems like I’m making much faster progress in certain areas than I was a few months ago, but I don’t feel like I’m personally doing as much. Things are happening, but I don’t feel like I can take credit for them. In a way it feels like I’m allowing life to live through me, like I’m partly stepping aside and allowing it to animate my avatar while I relax into the flow of its direction.

Life rules!!!

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

The way life is perfect is that it is continuously getting perfected.

I may quote you.

[Melchior]

Granted, it's one of my favorite quotes, but this surfaced as I was reading the article: Ichi-go ichi-e

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Melchior

Granted, it's one of my favorite quotes, but this surfaced as I was reading the article: Ichi-go ichi-e

I never encountered that expression before, but I love it!