StevePavlina.com Podcast #019 - Owning Your Dark Side (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

StevePavlina.com Podcast #019 - Owning Your Dark Side

[Theo77]

I'd have to say, I don't think I am unconditionally safe here.

This podcast kind of reminded me of "A course in Miracles" and the mantra about somthing like "Nothing real can be harmed, nothing unreal exists; herein lies the peace of God"

It may strike people as odd but I have a serious problem with ACIM. I find it very ominous and threatening. Some of the foundational assumptions are that all separation is an illusion and that we are all the son of God. So our separate physical bodies are seen as an illusion. I guess the entire visible universe would then be an illusion.

I also read "The disappearance of the Universe" which is an introductory commentary on ACIM.

The idea there is that once everyone becomes enlightened everything will disappear and we will all be one, with no more individual identity any more, just one big blob of consciousness or something.

To me that would be like hell. Losing my individuality, my independence, and free will would be hell.

Enlightenment as explained in the paradigm of "non-duality" and in many eastern religions gives me the creeps.

Giving up all desire, experiencing ego death...doesn't sound like fun to me.

So does this mean I am polarized in fear? Does this mean I will do whatever it takes to survive even if I have to claw others eyes out?

I don't think so. Personal integrity is at a high premium in my universe. Because its personal. It involves my choice. Its my decision how I choose to behave. It makes my life meaningful. Its how I assert who I am.

There are values I hold higher than mere self preservation. Not because I think everything is an illusion and nothing bad can ever happen to me, because I will just get absorbed into this big borg and lose my identity.

Its because ultimately, who I am is who I chose to be. My actions count because they may be all I have.

[Savage]

A big part of the polarity issue is that if you believe your own destruction is possible or even imminent (meaning that your consciousness could actually cease to exist), then things like values and integrity are effectively irrelevant except as tools for your continued survival. Such behavior is your choice of course, but it's a bit incongruent with the big picture of a fear-based belief system. You may in fact be hedging your bet, behaving a certain way just in case the universe doesn't work the way you think it does.

The idea of polarity is to commit fully to one type of reality or another, since in effect it cannot possibly be both. Either you're 100% unconditionally safe here, or you're not. There's no middle ground between 100% and not 100%. If you try to exist in the middle ground and hedge your bet, you're in no man's land -- you're guaranteed to have made a wrong choice because "maybe" isn't one of the options. If you polarize fully, you at least have a 50-50 chance of being correct, assuming both possibilities are equally likely, which is a lot better than a 0% chance if you don't polarize.

In terms of polarity, it's better to choose and risk being wrong than not choose and guarantee that you're wrong. Once you make this choice and fully commit to one path or the other, nothing will ever be the same again.

[Theo77]

If you think life is a game and that nothing can ever be risked can you have personal integrity? Can you display courage in following you convictions?

[Theo77]

I think there could possibly be life after death and that possibly many people are
spiritually decieved and that possibly bad things can happen to them in the afterworld as a result of their choices while alive and on earth.

Possibly people who surrender their lives to the service of various deities end up being slaves in the after life. Wheras, free spirits, atheists agnostics, do not.

So I am kind of agnostic, but also in a sense vigilant towards spiritual things because from experience there can be traps associated with spiritual beliefs and deception going on.

Truthfully, though, I don't find atheists to be characterized by a white knuckled death grip on life for fear of ceasing to exist, to the point that they will do absolutely anything to survive even if it involves preying on others.

Like for example if you were to offer atheist the proposition of eternal life, if they were to be able to exist indefinately by killing and drinking the blood of children. Do you thin most atheists would say yes?

Personally I don't.

I think you can be an atheist and believe in things higher then your self. I think atheists can have a very high degree of personal integrity. Doesn't mean they all do. But I have met many with high ethical standards and tender attitudes towards others.

Humanists come to mind. Humanism is often a philosophy of atheists.

As far as chosing to polarize, for me signifigant changes have been happening to me by pursuing my dreams, simply for my own sake, because I want to experience all that life has to offer. I feel this is hedonistic, yet I do I want to make a contribution.

I feel that real harm can come to me by wasting my potential and thus wasting my life. If I were to do that I would not make a contribution not even to myself.

[Dive Bomb]

You sound more laid back on this podcast than your more current ones, which is cool I like it.

Really great podcast, I believe I'm now ready to polarize as a lightworker. Thanks Steve, I don't think I could've done it without you.

*Puts on Eye Of The Tiger and gets ready to take on the world tomorrow*

[Theo77]

So,

Let me get this straight dive bomb,

You plan to polarize as a lightworker by firmly believing nothing can harm you?

Therefore you will set about to do good and at great personal risk because you believe all harm done to you will be illusory?

[Dive Bomb]

Originally Posted by Theo77

So,

Let me get this straight dive bomb,

You plan to polarize as a lightworker by firmly believing nothing can harm you?

Therefore you will set about to do good and at great personal risk because you believe all harm done to you will be illusory?

Yes, although not really in a physical sense..more so in the consciousness sense. I want to use the fuel polarity gives me to achieve my goals.

I don't look at this like I'm all of a sudden invincible from physical harm and the laws of physics. I look at it as a way to keep my spirit alive, and recieve that motivational drive. Basically using the "act as if" principle.

[Theo77]

So is it exercizing faith?

[Theo77]

I guess the way I look at it, is that I don't know if my consciousness can be extinguished or harmed or not.

But I know that I can waste my life by not pursuing my dreams. So as long as I am aware and have a physical body and the ability to exercise my will, I will do so in pursuing my dreams. Helping other people along the way, is an important part of it, making a positive impact on the world is an important part of it.

But in the end its my dream, and the pursuit of it is being directed by me, so is it self centered?

I mean I could say, that I want to be above all "others centered" and be indifferent as to what I do as long as it helps others. Wherever the greatest need in the world is I will be thee seeking to fill it.

I feel I used to be on a path like that at one time and found it unsatisfying.

[comboy]

Hi,

First of all - Steve - even though you don't like coffee, I really like to read you . You make really great articles, thanks for them.

And now, about polarization, love, and fear.

I don't believe in something after death. I am who I am, and I think I am mainly my thoughts, which are heavily dependend on my brain, which is physicall and won't work very well after they bury my. But.. it does not mean I am afraid of my death. You may say it's some kind of lack of my intelligence not to care about my existance - I don't say it's not true but sure it's not true that love is on the other side. I don't fear my death (that will make me really dead, completly dead, dead forever), because I'm just a part of human beeing on the earth. Evolution is working, and after 1000 years they won't be really sorry for my absence.

And this may be called some kind of love, to other people. If you really care about other people, not just yourself, you care more about civilisation existance than just your existance. Especially when you know, that those young people (even if this is really hard to believe and accept) may be just smarter than you (not you exactly, but statistically). So, believing that my life will end some day for good, does not mean that I have to fear. It's also not against love.

Life with believe that some day you'll be gone just motivate to work harder, to leave something for the others. Work for some greater good. Without fear of death - because when it happens, I won't be there anyway.

PS. English is not my first language so I'm sorry for all mistakes.

Regards,
Kacper Cieśla (comboy)

[Savage]

If the death of your consciousness means the death of all consciousness (since it's all the same consciousness), then civilization as you know it may not survive without you. That's what the subjective reality perspective would suggest.

Has anything truly conscious ever completely ceased to exist?

[nownow]

Steve,

I think your concept of Polarity has changed for the better. You seemed to have switched your focus from superficial actions like giving or taking to intentions such as love or fear. This fits in well with impaul's model. Whether you think you are safe or not depends on if you are identified with your ego. If you really believe you are safe then you do not believe that what you can see, touch, and feel is who you really are. You are aware of your true self, which is Being, The Formless, Unity, Love. If you feel you are not safe you believe you are your ego, your emotions, your body/materiality, all things which you know can be taken from you. Enlightenment is when you dis-identifiy with ego and return to Being or have awakened from the dream of form.

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

If the death of your consciousness means the death of all consciousness (since it's all the same consciousness), then civilization as you know it may not survive without you. That's what the subjective reality perspective would suggest.

How could SR consciousness possibly cease to exist? If consciousness is the container and not contained within anything, if there's nothing outside of it which could harm it, if it is not trapped within a physical brain, it doesn't seem possible that it could 'die'...?

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Shindra

How could SR consciousness possibly cease to exist? If consciousness is the container and not contained within anything, if there's nothing outside of it which could harm it, if it is not trapped within a physical brain, it doesn't seem possible that it could 'die'...?

Self-destruction.

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Self-destruction.

O_o oh.

But then it would still be fundamentally safe. I mean, safe from anything but one's own will still seems perfectly safe to me. And if being safe is incongruent with darkworking, but SR is not - that seems a contradiction?
Am I just completely missing the/a point?

[Love]

I enjoyed the podcast. It made sense to me. Thank you for it!

[siamesesilk]

Excellent podcast Steve. I saw a lot of myself in it.
Thank you.

[pyrhho]

I'm not sure I completely understand this whole light-dark concept again. I thought I had it, but then you threw in the whole fear-love bit and it threw me off again.

I had thought that the polarization was more concerned with the reasons for doing things. Thinking of it as more of an in-flow, out-flow related ideology. For example, take a farmer. I had thought of a lightworker as a farmer who will plant crops with the intent to feed 3rd world countries (earning minimal profits on his crops). This would impact his decisions because he would more likely plant crops like wheat, corn, or rice (subsistence crops). Whereas a darkworker farmer would be more concerned with planting crops which would produce the maximum cash return for him. He would end up planting different crops such as, coffee, sugar beets, or cotton (cash crops).

I was under the impression that fear/lack-of-fear need not really play a role in the polarization process, and that it had more to do with directing the "kharmic flow". Hence why I feel a bit slighted (not much, don't worry), by your comments about how darkworkers only reap "scarcity, relationship troubles, and etc...". Going back to the farmer analogy that would be like the farmer planting weeds for himself, which would only happen in very low-conciousness circumstances.

As a darkworker (well, sith apprentice... ) who believes in an afterlife, I still feel unconditionally safe, but since my belief system allows me to pursue any goals I wish, I am still free to focus on self-service (including world-service in-so-much as it benefits myself).

Do you feel differently about it, or have I missed something?

[Savage]

Be sure to read the related blog post if you've only heard the audio, since the blog notes include some commentary on a couple deficiencies of this podcast.

[pyrhho]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Be sure to read the related blog post if you've only heard the audio, since the blog notes include some commentary on a couple deficiencies of this podcast.

Ah, thanks, I hadn't read the accompanying post. That clarifies it a bit. Thanks again, your posts always give me something to think about.

[Scientist]

I'd like to believe that my true self cannot be destroyed because the idea of non-existence is terribly frightening to me. I've considered the possibility that there is no afterlife, but I cannot accept that idea because it is the worst thing I can imagine.

But, believing that I am eternal does not give me comfort either because I have difficulty accepting anything without at least some kind of evidence or prior experience that would suggest it.

There are too many questions that cannot be answered.

For example, if I am eternal, then in what medium, if any, does my eternal being exist? Or is it that everything exists within my eternal being? How is it that it cannot be destroyed? How is it that it could survive the death of the universe?

What happens when every point of consciousness becomes fully evolved? Is it game over? Is there nothing left that needs to be done? Is it just blissful existence for eternity? That actually sounds kind of boring and unfulfilling. Or, does everything get reset back to a lesser evolved consciousness so the game of raising consciousness can continue on forever?

Am I supposed to just accept it on blind faith that I am eternal and not think about how that might be? I don't like that idea, because that is what Christianity told me to do, which led me to have a terrible misunderstanding of reality.

[Hari.c]

Thanks for the Podcast. It's really helping me a lot especially to overcome my fears.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Steve, I have had similar experiences to you in my late teens and ever since I had a big wakeup call, I am doing much better, with your help partly, and I believe this podcast really clarified things for me.

I realize how selfish I was when I was living in this low-level state. Now that I reclaimed my joy, took charge of my life and did not blame it on my circumstances, especially my brain cancer five years prior. I am moving away from fear, realizing that I am unconditionally safe here and that when you feel that way, joy is a natural consequence. Any failure or anything is nothing to worry about. I do not need to worry about survival anymore. It is something that erases almost all fear from my consciousness. I love the depth through which you cover these topics.

Thank you,

Andrew Brunelle

[Mammon]

A comment on "Owning Your Dark Side".

The concept of being an atheist is misused in this podcast. An atheist can be a buddhist since the term "atheism" only refers to the lack of belief in a supernatural being. An atheist can therefore believe in reincarnation. I do assume that the term "atheist" is used do describe someone who, in the absence of any proof otherwise, thinks that the mind dies with the body.

To think that the mind dies with the body does not automatically bring fear to the individual. For me it is the exact opposite. I know I will be gone and non-experiencing in less than 40 years, give or take, so this makes me want to do more with these few years I have left. If I believed that I will get another chance, I would relax and watch more TV. If I believed that there were hidden cameras or all-seeing eyes watching my every step to be able sort me out on judgement day, I would be paranoid.

By not believing in the afterlife or reincarnation I know that nothing can hurt me when I'm gone. No hell, no raging fires, no eternal boredom in a heaven full of harp-playing angels, no karma to make me live through five hundred lives as a fox. So if my life ends tomorrow or fifty years from now, after that moment it is all the same.