If selfishness isn't evil, then what is evil?

[yossarian]

Darkwork = selfishness

Evil = ?

I readily admit that someone who is acting selfishly can end up benefitting the greater good. But they are still selfish aren't they? Over the long run, someone who is selfish will certainly benefit the greater good and eventually realise englightenment. This I believe to be true. But I don't see how this makes it not-evil.

What is evil if not selfishness, if not darkwork?

[Akashic_Librarian]

Ok Evil is a perception. there is no force called Evil. Or Good. There is only energy. Static Energy. When a mind enters the universe it starts to move this energy. The consciousness of the mind percieves the energy movements. Thus Good and Evil are born.

Now Darkworkers arn't selfish. I can attest to this as I am beginning my Polarization into a Darkworker. I don't believe I am evil. I believe that the best way to help others is by first helping myself. I.E/ Darkworking. Ultimately both Light/Darkworkers head for the same goal. Peace. Both help others. Both help themselves. Its like Steve says, Its a paradox, you have to experience duality before you can achieve Nonduality. Dark is not evil, but Light is not good either. It is all about perception. never forget that. Laws are just rules. Perceptions of the time. Did you know its apparently Illegal to walk into Alabama with a Chicken on your head, yeah. Stupid right? But at the time it was percieved as a horrible crime. Just as it may seem selfish when I focus on helping myself rather than others. But ultimately I am helping everyone as well.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Ok Evil is a perception. there is no force called Evil. Or Good. There is only energy. Static Energy. When a mind enters the universe it starts to move this energy. The consciousness of the mind percieves the energy movements. Thus Good and Evil are born.

Agreed. Polarities are born. Duality is born. Good and evil are born from nonduality.

Now Darkworkers arn't selfish. I can attest to this as I am beginning my Polarization into a Darkworker. I don't believe I am evil. I believe that the best way to help others is by first helping myself.

When you help yourself, are you willing to help yourself at other's expense? Are you willing to hurt me in order to help yourself?

I.E/ Darkworking. Ultimately both Light/Darkworkers head for the same goal. Peace. Both help others.

Doesn't that just mean that evil helps others as well as it helps itself? The cencept that we call "selfishness" certainly helps others because nonduality is fact. But that doesn't mean it isn't selfishness.

If darkwork isn't selfishness, what is selfishness?

Isn't the definition of selfish working only to benefit yourself?

Isn't the definition of darkwork working only to benefit yourself?

therefore, darkwork=selfishness?

[Akashic_Librarian]

Ok selfishness would be taking something from someone else. Darkworking would be letting them have it. Hopefully making the person happier and thus more able to help you. And Help themselves.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Ok selfishness would be taking something from someone else. Darkworking would be letting them have it. Hopefully making the person happier and thus more able to help you. And Help themselves.

thats really confusing... by "letting them have it" what do you mean exactly?

[munish]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Darkwork = selfishness

Evil = ?

I readily admit that someone who is acting selfishly can end up benefitting the greater good. But they are still selfish aren't they? Over the long run, someone who is selfish will certainly benefit the greater good and eventually realise englightenment. This I believe to be true. But I don't see how this makes it not-evil.

What is evil if not selfishness, if not darkwork?

Darkworker is not the problem,darkworker syndrome is.

yossarian-

If darkworker is a bad one,then Is a Lightworker good one?Motive is there behind it.Demand for the pleasure of experience.
Polarity is only a tool for making decisions .You are not using the right words.(Y)

[yossarian]

I didn't say it's a problem

I don't see any problem with evil

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Jon

I want to make the world a better place because at this point in time, I am living in this world. This is a purely selfish motive, and doing good is more likely to complete that objective than doing evil.

How exactly is that evil?

I'm not saying that's evil, I'm just asking what evil is since it's not selfishness.

I guess I've always thought that evil is basically selfishness taken to the extreme. But now that this forum tells me I'm wrong, I'm curious what other people think evil actually is.

I'm willing to accept that you aren't evil, only selfish. But if selfishness isn't evil, what is evil?

[Erin Pavlina]

To me evil is when you willfully harm another for your own gains or for your own pleasure. In other words, when you get pleasure from hurting others.

Being selfish is not evil, in my opinion.

[JHL]

The continuum of spiritual growth ranges from absolute seperation (pure self-centredness) to absolute connectedness (pure love).

"Evil" would best describe someone lower on the continuum who exhibits a lack of love to the degree that they would cause harm to others in the pursuit of their self-centredness. They do so because they are ignorant of the connected nature of things and do not realise that by harming others they simultaneously harm themselves.

Enlightement is the progressive realisation and integration of this concept.

So "evil" typically describes a lack of love to the degree that it is overt and we can recognise it as self-centred behavior and harmful.

We all suffer from a lack of love to some degree, therefore we are all "evil" to some degree...if you will.

"Evil" is not really a useful term to use. "Lack of love" is better, because it also defines the problem at the same time as it describes it.

[Sam988]

For a darkworker, helping himself makes him feel better than if he helps others.


For a lightworker, helping others makes him feel better than if he helps himself.


So its not really a matter of selfishness but a matter of priorities. One feels better helping himself while the other feels better helping others. Everyone is born with either one of these two traits, so, as i said before, its not a matter of selfishness but a matter of doing what makes you feel better.


And, after the affirmations above, i would definitely not consider selfishness = evil. "Selfishness" is just doing what makes you feel the best. For some its helping others, and for some is helping themselves.

[yossarian]

What does a darkworker do when helping himself can be achieved by hurting others?

There are times in life where a person can benefit themselves but in the process they will hurt others. Does a darkworker seize these opportunities, or does he abstain from them?

If you look at the most powerful people in history - take for instance Genghis Khan - he had no problem with killing others if it would benefit him. But ONLY if it would benefit him. He didn't kill for fun or for pleasure, he killed for his own good. He wanted to help himself and in order to give himself the greatest help he found that he could kill others and gain power, wealth, and freedom.

So my question is, under Pavlina Polarity (if I may call it that ), will darkworkers hurt others to benefit themselves?

If the answer is no, then they abstain from hurting others but also won't help them. And apparently the explanation for this is that they too realise that duality is an illusion.

So let's say someone has orgasmic pleasure from killing people because it gives him huge orange chakra activation. He does it because of the energy it allows him to absorb - killing is the ultimate act of domination. He's doing it to feel good and to become powerful. There were SS Officers in the Nazi party that reportedly had orgasms from mass executions. These guys did it to feel good, to feel superior, to benefit themselves at the expense of others.

Under Pavlina Polarity their actions were not actually polarized strongly towards self-service, they were just something else, something we'd call "evil" that isn't related to polarity?

I guess I'm finally getting the picture. (But I don't agree with it )

If someone is "benefitting themself in order to benefit humanity" then IMO they are actually polarized with positive intentions, but I doubt these intentions are effectively accomplished through through cultivating inward energy flow, and even worse through cultivating fearful emotions. Seems like a dangerous path.

Anyway thanks for the answers.

[Sam988]

The point here is that those darkworkers who kill others because they feel pleasure are very very low-aware darkworkers, and they end up being victims of the "darkworker syndrome".


http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...consciousness/


Read carefully the part where steve talks about the cells of the body and the body and you will have a better understanding of this subject.

[Theo77]

Read "Beyond Good and Evil" by Nietzche.

Basically if you are a slave or a peasant, rulers are evil. If you are a ruler, there is no good or evil, just things that work out well for you or work out not so well.

Being hung up on evil is what Nietzche calls the "servant morality"

At its heart its passive aggressive.

[Truefire]

Nevermind....

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Theo77

Read "Beyond Good and Evil" by Nietzche.

Basically if you are a slave or a peasant, rulers are evil. If you are a ruler, there is no good or evil, just things that work out well for you or work out not so well.

So to be clear, these people weren't evil, they were just rulers who transcended good and evil?:

- Hitler
- Himmler
- Goebbels
- Stalin
- Genghis Khan
- Attila the Hun
- Pol Pot
- Milosevic
- Saddam Hussein
- Kim Jong-Il
- Edward I
- Alexander
- Nero
- Caligula

They were all totally selfish, but they were low-awareness selfish, because if they were high-awareness selfish they would have seen that being selfish is best achieved by helping others.

So darkworkers intentionally and directly help others because they know that by helping others, their own life will be improved.

Lightworkers intentionally and directly help others because they want others to be happy.

Evil either doesn't exist, or is only applied to low-awareness people who enjoy feeding off red and orange chakra energy. Even though they do it for selfish reasons, their methods prove that they are "low awareness". This isn't offered as a viable path because of the judgement that they will give up their harmful energy-sapping tendencies once they achieve higher awareness.

Evil isn't judged by intentions then, it's judged by awareness+polarity. Evil is defined as a low-awareness darkworker.

[Theo77]

Well, you listed all the leaders we have been conditioned to hate. If you were to look into it, you may find they share many common characteristics with the leaders we;ve been conditioned to think are The "good Guys" If you are happy with your conditioning, though, that's fine. Its working for you I won't try to disabuse you of it.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Theo77

Well, you listed all the leaders we have been conditioned to hate. If you were to look into it, you may find they share many common characteristics with the leaders we;ve been conditioned to think are The "good Guys" If you are happy with your conditioning, though, that's fine. Its working for you I won't try to disabuse you of it.

thats true, Hitler wasn't such a bad guy really when you think about. I mean when it comes down to it, he did basically the exact same stuff as Martin Luther King Jr. or Mohandas Gandhi.

I guess subjective reality is just never going to jive with me. I mean do people's actions mean ANYTHING at all? I, for one, think they do.

[JHL]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Evil isn't judged by intentions then, it's judged by awareness+polarity. Evil is defined as a low-awareness darkworker.

If I've understood you correctly, I think your definition of evil is very limited. Lets take the other extreme: is a high-awareness lightworker also not capable of "evil"? Or do we rule the fact that they are capable of evil by virtue of the fact that they happen to be "high-awareness lightworkers"?

Everyone is human and flawed. "Evil" is merely the manifestation of those flaws (or lack of love in terms of how I see it).

In your example of Hitler, for example - let just say he suffered from an vast inferiority complex. He compensated for own feelings of inferiority by projecting them onto other certain cultures. He felt powerless so he compensated by exercising power over them. A clear overt example of "evil".

If you move towards the other end of the scale you have things like gossiping. People feel somewhat insecure in themselves and so disparage other people behind their backs to make themselves feel better.

These are expressions of the same things, just on very different scales. Its irrelevant whether the person is "darkworker" or "lightworker". The way I see it, both manifestations are "evil". But again, I prefer to look at it as both are symptoms of a lack of love. The solution is the same - they need to love themselves more.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by JHL

If I've understood you correctly, I think your definition of evil is very limited. Lets take the other extreme: is a high-awareness lightworker also not capable of "evil"? Or do we rule the fact that they are capable of evil by virtue of the fact that they happen to be "high-awareness lightworkers"?

Everyone is human and flawed. "Evil" is merely the manifestation of those flaws (or lack of love in terms of how I see it).

In your example of Hitler, for example - let just say he suffered from an vast inferiority complex. He compensated for own feelings of inferiority by projecting them onto other certain cultures. He felt powerless so he compensated by exercising power over them. A clear overt example of "evil".

If you move towards the other end of the scale you have things like gossiping. People feel somewhat insecure in themselves and so disparage other people behind their backs to make themselves feel better.

These are expressions of the same things, just on very different scales. Its irrelevant whether the person is "darkworker" or "lightworker". The way I see it, both manifestations are "evil". But again, I prefer to look at it as both are symptoms of a lack of love. The solution is the same - they need to love themselves more.

It wasn't my definition, I'm just trying to understand some of the people on this forum.

My own personal view is that, in a rough sense, each polarity relates to the classical story of good and evil.

Service-to-others ("good") being the type of polarity shown by Jesus. (The greatest lover in history)

Service-to-self ("evil") being the type of polarity shown by Genghis Khan. (The greatest conquerer in history)

Our culture is naturally biased towards the "good" polarity which is why we have such loaded language and cultural stereotypes and such. However, in my mind, it is perfectly OK to select the evil polarity and polarize in that direction. Evil therefore is not a "flaw" it's just another aspect of the one creation.

To me evil is extreme selfishness, and some individuals will polarize towards service-to-self and as a part of this they will sacrifice the happiness of others for their own happiness. That's part of the game for a service-to-self polarized person.

And so this is where my disagreement comes in and I've been trying to get a clear image. Is a "darkworker" ("a new concept") someone who will do this, or not? Some people are saying darkworkers will not hurt others to achieve their goals, some say they will.

From my view what people on this forum have been doing is creating a Rube Goldberg tube of rationalization so that they can simultaneously follow the negative path (which is perfectly legitimate and I would not condemn anyone for doing so) while disassociating themselves from negative acts typified by that path, and also disassociating themselves from classically negative people.

How many lightworkers are going to embrace the teachings of Jesus? Everyone.

But self-proclaimed darkworkers on this forum seem very reluctant to embrace Genghis Khan who is basically the perfect example of a powerful, competant, highly intelligent, service-to-self person. Genghis Khan created the largest and most successful Empire in history, and made himself probably the most powerful single individual in history. He lived a long life full of love and abundance. Is that not something a darkworker would strive for?

Why are they reluctant to learn from his teachings?

That's just my dispassionate take. If someone wants to be evil I think it's for the best, and it's certainly not my place to judge their behaviour, but I'm pretty distraught at how people are going about it. It seems both suboptimal and in some cases dangerous, because their true intentions seem subverted.

Shrug, I'm no expert, take me with a grain of salt.

[JHL]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Service-to-others ("good") being the type of polarity shown by Jesus. (The greatest lover in history)

Service-to-self ("evil") being the type of polarity shown by Genghis Khan. (The greatest conquerer in history)

But Yossarian isnt EVERYONE is engaged in service to self?

Mother Teresa disavowed materialism and her own personal comforts in the service of others. She did this because it ultimately served HER. She wouldnt have been happy being a stock broker or a fashion designer or anything else. She did was SHE loved to do and was most fulfilled doing.

The same goes for people like firemen, doctors or paramedics or policemen - they are all doing what they love to do, and probably wouldnt want to do anything other than that. So in a sense, yes they serve others - but they serve themselves in the first place - just like Genghis Khan, Al Capone or your local postman.

Do you agree with this?