If selfishness isn't evil, then what is evil?

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by yossarian

The major difference between polarity as I know it, and Pavlina Polarity, is characterising darkwork as fear-based rather than love-of-self based. The other major difference is the statement that darkworkers don't harm others while pursuing selfish goals. There is a lot more symmetry to my understanding of polarity, which IMO makes it simpler and easier to understand and use. And more accurate.

Yes, I can understand your version and, without ever having heard of the terms or concept of polarity or polarizing to one side or the other, I have been aware of the two sides and striving all my life for the one I think is right, and yet, I would never tell anyone I am "polarizing" or claim to be "polarizing".

Actually, you have helped me understand this now - at least your version of it . It seems to be something that is reflected in religions, which is what I originally thought. Love-of-self vs. love-of-God or of the neighbor.

I still don't know about the possibility of "polarizing" so that you are perpetually 100% in one of those states and never in the other. And when I think about what Steve writes on polarity and "lightwork" and "darkwork", I'm not sure he really means what you mean with polarity and the two sides. I also see proof that he is not 100% polarized to love either...as he says he is...I know signs of love and I know what it feels like and that is what I aspire to, and I know he is not how I am aspiring to be, so something somewhere is amiss.

Originally Posted by yossarian

I agree with JHL that intelligence is overrated. Faith is underrated. The ability to look at the mystery of universe and see beauty is the fundamental quality of grace and divinity. All one must do to reach their potential is look to that mystery in silent reverence. It is NOT complicated unless you make it complicated. There is no "doing" required, as we were not put here to do. We were put here to "be" and so never be dissatisfied with "just being".

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

thanks, these are encouraging words

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by yossarian

The major difference between polarity as I know it, and Pavlina Polarity, is characterising darkwork as fear-based rather than love-of-self based. The other major difference is the statement that darkworkers don't harm others while pursuing selfish goals. There is a lot more symmetry to my understanding of polarity, which IMO makes it simpler and easier to understand and use. And more accurate.

Besides those things Steve's interpretation fits with my own.

Can it be that fear and love-of-self are actually the same thing? Especially love of self that is all attachted to the identity, there is bound to be fear of lossing that perscious creation.

And hurting others is more a matter of how conscious one is. Not if you are being motivated by service of self, or fear, or love-of-self. I do say that ignoring others while being motivated by service to self, or by fear, or love-of-self does open the opputunity or chance to harm others or you aren't doing anything to prevent it - and as such I strive to not have motivation which ignores others.

[yossarian]

my beliefs:



As you increase your polarity, you increase your magical power.

(if manifesting something through intentions is not magic, then what is? )

There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.
- Albert Einstein

[Theo77]

I guess the biggest problem, I have with your model Yossarian, is:
A: I am very skeptical of channeled material in general. There is a huge burden of proof upon it as far as I am concerned, that is almost never met.

Asuming psychic mediumship is 100% legit (a big assumption in and of itself) assuming people actually can channel people from the beyond, just because someone is another dimension, doesn't mean they know everything and it doesn't mean they can't lie and decieve people.

B. The model is too limited, in its terms of expression the two respective polarities. Or maybe you are looking at it in too limited a way. Like dark polarized people must be a military dictator, otherwise they are simply "dicking around" and aren't polarized.

I am into philosophy. My impression is that philosophy, the contemplative life, etc. Is primarily concerned with seeking wisdom and knowledge. So is that "lightworking?" To me it really doesn't seem to be the case. Its not religion. Its not about going around healing other people.

Now, if you say, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle,Nietzche, etc. Are basicallly lightweights (that other 99%.) I just can't take what you say seriously.

Now, I think there is somthing to this polarity stuff. I prefer to think the matter is not 100% settled as far as I am concerned. That leaves me open to a lot of new information. I can't just take channeled material and say the matter has been decided and follow it dogmatically, like a Biblical literalists or somthing.

There are many great people of history to look back on that accomplished great things and they weren't all either healers or military conquerors. You seem really dismissive of disciplines not in these two narrow categories.

Mybe RA is in a dark polarity and trying to keep people from seeking personal power, by convincing them that to be powerful they must become Ghengis Khan.

That's equally as likely as any other interpretation. IMO

[Bitsy]

What is "4th density"? And why is it so much larger on the positive side than on the negative one? And what is the space that is not "4th density"?

[Theo77]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

What is "4th density"? And why is it so much larger on the positive side than on the negative one? And what is the space that is not "4th density"?

Its the next density after this one which is 3D. The reason the threshold is narrower on the negative polarity is due to the law of diminishing returns.

The idea is that the farther you get ahead through evil, the less it pays off, so the only way to continue on that path is to devote more and more energy for less net return.

[Theo77]

That is, if the model is correct.

The thing with channeling is it always seems to draw on stuff that has already been written about. Its as if these Millenia old entities go to New Age Bookstores and read up on stuff before finding a vessel to transmit all this info.

So ts like since I have read stuff in this area already I can feel in the blanks as to what "Ra" has to say.

Or maybe this is actually truth, that is just so ubiquitous that it comes from all over the place at once, when people are ready for it.

I am open to both possibilities.

I think my basic hang up though is that polarizing with love seems to imply giving up personal power and yeilding control. I leke directing my own actions rather than feeling like I am being directed by others.

So I hold out hope that there is a way to weild personal power with out being either dispicably evil, nor...You know, everyones servant.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Theo77

I guess the biggest problem, I have with your model Yossarian, is:
A: I am very skeptical of channeled material in general. There is a huge burden of proof upon it as far as I am concerned, that is almost never met.

Asuming psychic mediumship is 100% legit (a big assumption in and of itself) assuming people actually can channel people from the beyond, just because someone is another dimension, doesn't mean they know everything and it doesn't mean they can't lie and decieve people.

Very fair, and true.

Channeled stuff must be judged on the content itself first and foremost.

B. The model is too limited, in its terms of expression the two respective polarities. Or maybe you are looking at it in too limited a way. Like dark polarized people must be a military dictator, otherwise they are simply "dicking around" and aren't polarized.

I am into philosophy. My impression is that philosophy, the contemplative life, etc. Is primarily concerned with seeking wisdom and knowledge. So is that "lightworking?" To me it really doesn't seem to be the case. Its not religion. Its not about going around healing other people.

Now, if you say, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle,Nietzche, etc. Are basicallly lightweights (that other 99%.) I just can't take what you say seriously.

They are human.

IMO those 4 contributed a lot to humanity, and all 4 seemed quite selfless, so they were probably somewhere between 40% service to others and 70% service to others. But what do I know? I'm just guessing.

Where they were specifically just depends on the specifics of their life. And of course, their polarity would change constantly throughout their lives.

Almost no one is going to polarize beyond 80% service to others.

You don't have to be a military leader. According to the same source Rasputin the Russian mystic reached graduation threshold for service to self.

Knowledge and wisdom is basically just information. The use you put the knowledge to determines your polarity.

Science and philosophy is independant from polarity. Our knowledge of nuclear energy can be used to create nuclear bombs or nuclear power. Both uses can be for "bad" or "good" - basically they can be used to do whatever humans want to do with them.

Humans polarize with their intentions, with the work they do using their knowledge.

Now, I think there is somthing to this polarity stuff. I prefer to think the matter is not 100% settled as far as I am concerned. That leaves me open to a lot of new information. I can't just take channeled material and say the matter has been decided and follow it dogmatically, like a Biblical literalists or somthing.

I certainly would not encourage you to. It took me many weeks of comtemplation on each of these specific issues to eventually decide on what was true for me and what was not. In the end I decided that the information in The Law of One was highly congruent with what I previously knew to be true, and also that the source was reliable and high quality. The far majority of channeled information I read, I find to be of low utility to myself and I consider it low quality, although I'm aware that that just means I don't resonate with it. It's likely that each particular source is useful to someone.

Information is like throwing spaghetti against a wall. Most of it falls to the ground, some of it sticks. The way i've determined my own beliefs is by throwing spaghetti at myself and seeing what sticks.

There are many great people of history to look back on that accomplished great things and they weren't all either healers or military conquerors.

I totally agree. Everyone has their own unique brand of service, and no service is less worthy than any other.

Not every self-service individual desires to conquer the world. Some just want to conquer their own personal life.

What is power if you can't do whatever you want with it? A highly polarized person will achieve his desires whatever they may be.

I use Jesus and Genghis Khan as examples because I'm very very familiar with their lives and so i'm very comfortable speaking about their behaviours, intentions, motivations, and polarity. I'm less familiar with other examples like Rasputin and Buddha, so I tend not to talk as much about them.

If we were all meant to be carbon copies of famous people, life would be pretty boring wouldn't it?

IMO there have been millions of people throughout history who reached graduation range, and millions today who are within the graduation range. The graduation range is what determines where people will go when Earth moves into the next density. No path is worse or better than any other, and I stress that there is no reason to feel anxious about any of this.

The densities are as follow:

1st density: Raw matter. Earth. Rocks, soil, chemicals, light, energy.
2nd density: Life. Plants, animals, living things.
3rd density: Social life. Societies of conscious beings. Discovering the power of consciousness - the power of love.
4th density: Love/Understanding. Having discovered the power of love/consciousness, perfecting it's usage.
5th density: Wisdom.
6th density: Unity. Unifying new-found wisdom with old passion. The love that was cultivated in 4th density is unified with the wisdom gained in 5th density. Negative polarity accepts unity and melds with positive polarity.
7th density: Moving towards timelessness, foreverness, and all-beingness.
8th density/1st density: The first density of the next octave. The octaves go on for forever.

The densities have symmetry with the chakras, and this pattern is ubiquitous throughout creation.

1st chakra/Red: Survival and basic instinct
2nd chakra/Orange: Individuality and relations to other individuals
3rd chakra/Yellow: Relations with large groups of people. Societies.
4th chakra/Green: Universal love
5th chakra/Blue: Communication, radiation
6th chakra/Indigo: Magical power, intentions
7th chakra/Violet: Divinity

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

What is "4th density"? And why is it so much larger on the positive side than on the negative one? And what is the space that is not "4th density"?

The space which isn't on the 4th density is just normal human behaviour on the 3rd density.

Most of us aren't in the graduation ranges, but as far as individual life goes, it's not important to worry about those ranges.

If you notice, people start each incarnation between the two graduation ranges.

It makes sense from a utilitarian point of view that people mostly serve themselves, since it's easier to know about your own needs than to know about the needs of others. If you're hungry, it's much easier to find food yourself and eat it than it is to wait for someone else to feed you.

If there are a million entities in the universe, then theoretically if you want to serve the entire universe equally you be .000001% service to self. But since this doesnt make much sense, especially on earth, since it's a lot easier to feed yourself than for others to feed you, a graduatable service-to-others person is 51% service to othres and 49% service to self. You don't have to be totally selfless to graduate because a bit of selfishness is useful. If you were 100% selfless you might accidentally starve to death or step off a cliff or something.

Also while diminishing returns is pretty accurate, on the higher ends of the scales each small percentage becomes worth more in the amount of power it gets you. The axis is actually on an exponential curve. The further you go to each side, the stronger the spiritual gravity is to pull you back towards the other side.

It's like the pendulum of a grandfather clock. It swings back and forth. When the pendulum is at the extreme edge of a swing, it has the most power to do useful work. When it's in the middle, it can't really do anything except sit there.

Consciousness is like that.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Theo77

I think my basic hang up though is that polarizing with love seems to imply giving up personal power and yeilding control. I leke directing my own actions rather than feeling like I am being directed by others.

So I hold out hope that there is a way to weild personal power with out being either dispicably evil, nor...You know, everyones servant.

That makes a lot of sense. I have similar issues.

For me the key is that by giving up control, you aren't really giving up control. I used to think that by serving others I'm making myself a slave to them. It's an orange chakra issue - fear of being possessed. Slowly I figured out that I can serve people on my terms without worrying about outcomes and stuff like that. I am free without doing anything - freedom is a natural thing. And if I freely choose to serve, who can say I'm a slave?

Likewise on the other side I've had lots of fear of others infringing on my space. Fear of people harming me, fear of being vulnerable. Eventually I realised that this fear is baseless because I'm protected. Nothing can happen to me unless I allow it to - that fact is provided by the creator. Only my own willful ignorance can harm me, and if I turn my attention to the creator the ignorance melts away. That is the natural state of being.

The solution to Fear is Faith. Faith in yourself, faith in the universe, faith in others. Faith that you are provided for.

I fear harming others, this is a more recent fear than the other ones. As my compassion grows the worst thing that could happen to me is causing harm to someone. To solve this fear I refind my faith in the universe, faith that my path is right, faith in my own abilities that i've cultivated. The fear of hurting someone can be just as terrifying as the fear of being hurt.

I used to walk through life planning every step. I sought to illuminate the path so that I could walk it - I wanted to predict everything before it happened. This was a form of fear for me. Eventually I realised to step onto the path without any light except my own faith in divinity and faith that all is as it should be. The only light that's needed is the light of the creator. His lantern is never turned off, though we sometimes shut our eyes.

Old habits die hard but I'm making progress

[Akashic_Librarian]

Yossarian. You have a very negative attitude towards Darkworkers. Methinks you have a very basic understand of them. If not a totally incorrect one.

You talk of fath as a solution. Faith is a deivce of self-delusion, a simple trick done with words and emotions founded on anything that makes you forget the truth.

Faith in tomorrow is unfounded. Faith in the NOW. Is founded. It is true. The only truth is you are here now.

Fear cannot be beaten by faith. Fear can be beaten by logic, thinking, and TRUTH.

"The only light that's needed is the light of the creator. His lantern is never turned off, though we sometimes shut our eyes."

So you believe that there is a God that predicts your life for you? Do you think that by sheer faith in your Creator, the wrongs of all our society will be righted. On yours, and everyone elses good faith. Look at Christians, or any religion for that matter. Faith gets you know where but backwards.

To allow faith in tomorrow is to allow death. To allow faith in ones self to to invite failure. To KNOW Tomorrow, brings life, To KNOW yourself brings success.

[yossarian]

I think we are Gods, we just don't know it. And I think we are all one.

[Akashic_Librarian]

So that kind of...didn't relate to what I said at all really.

I too believe we are all Gods in our own repsective rights. But I also believe that you seem to look less than fondly down on Darkworkers, why is this?

[alpineboarder]

Just as there is nothing to fear but the thought of fear itself, there is nothing that is evil but the thought of evil itself.

Evil is just a viewpoint we can jump in and out of, a perspective we can have of anything, anytime, anywhere. So what then is evil? Whatever you say is.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

So that kind of...didn't relate to what I said at all really.

I too believe we are all Gods in our own repsective rights. But I also believe that you seem to look less than fondly down on Darkworkers, why is this?

It's just not true. I think the dark path is highly legitimate and if someone is drawn to it they should allow themselves to follow it.

It's not for me personally so i'm naturally biased.

I'm a highly flawed individual, read me with skepticism.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by alpineboarder

Just as there is nothing to fear but the thought of fear itself, there is nothing that is evil but the thought of evil itself.

Evil is just a viewpoint we can jump in and out of, a perspective we can have of anything, anytime, anywhere. So what then is evil? Whatever you say is.

If it is the word that is bothering people, then we can take away the word and call it nothing, or we can call it "grace" or something wonderful and we are still left with the deeds that we previously labeled "evil". It doesn't matter what it is called, the deeds the word represents and the pain the deeds cause do not change no matter what adjective you want to choose to describe it or what noun you label it with.

[Theo77]

Hey Yossarian,

I think I see where you are coming from more now. So, you seem to be into this kind of thing, with aura colors and stuff. How does this realte to the socalled "indigo children" phenomenon?

Are they born darkworkers?

That sounds very bizzare. If course there wasa website of a self proclaimed indigo adult, and she had a background in "Rosicrucianism" So that might be a link.

Just like with the channelling stuff, I am about 50 percent skeptical and 50% open to this indigo stuff. I would be curious to hear your take on it.

I would also be interested to know what color my aura is. As far as my Chakras go, my thoat and third eye chakras are the most open and active or whatever the appropriate term is. My Aunt who does Reiki tested them.

[Theo77]

Well,
I just browsed the site and I have to say, I am wicked creeped out about this "I am Ra" entity. It makes my skin crawl. That is my honest reaction.

This is not my skepticism talking. This is my reactionto the energy I pick up from it.

The thing is, will find critiques of Channeled material from Skeptics that are basically, materialists and scoff at anything that seems metaphysical. You will also often see critiques from Born again, Fundamentalist Christians.

I have a different perspective than either of those. I think its very possible theese channeled entities are real and that they are trying to decieve people in order to capture their soul energy. When you tell a lie, people whe believe the lie, give energy to that lie through their belief. Decieving entities can use this energy for their own ends.

From my understanding this is how dark entities progress spiritually, by growing from all the trapped soul energy of all the other entities they have decieved.

It sounds like from what you have said, the material presents a version of this. I got this info from reading Micheal Topper.

So anyway, I just thought I would share that.

That is how I look at a lot of this "lets all come together as one" type stuff. If some powerful dark entity was trying to swallow up a lot of souls, a good way would be to get them all to unite under him. It would be unity in that sense but only in one direction.

The thing is

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Theo77

Hey Yossarian,

I think I see where you are coming from more now. So, you seem to be into this kind of thing, with aura colors and stuff. How does this realte to the socalled "indigo children" phenomenon?

Are they born darkworkers?

That sounds very bizzare. If course there wasa website of a self proclaimed indigo adult, and she had a background in "Rosicrucianism" So that might be a link.

Just like with the channelling stuff, I am about 50 percent skeptical and 50% open to this indigo stuff. I would be curious to hear your take on it.

I would also be interested to know what color my aura is. As far as my Chakras go, my thoat and third eye chakras are the most open and active or whatever the appropriate term is. My Aunt who does Reiki tested them.

Well i'm definitely not an expert. As far as my investigation goes I think the indigos and all that stuff are basically just a symptom of approaching the transition into 4th density.

The number of incarnations available on earth is a function of how many people are having babies. The spirit world has a little system for determining who gets to use up the next incarnation spot made available, and it's based on vibration. The highest vibration people get priority since they are most likely to reach graduation before the harvest. Some people will need to do another 3rd density cycle anyway and so they don't incarnate in those crucial last spots.

So basically, due to the seniority-by-vibration incarnational mechanic, more and more people are being born with high vibrations.

The other factor is the increased prevalence of wanderers. Wanderers are souls from the 4th, 5th and 6th densities that have decided to incarnate here to offer their services to the planet, in hope of increasing the harvest. They are like any other person really, except a lot of them probably display indigo child properties. Wanderers forget their past when they're born just like anyone else, and must go through the same process as any human. If they don't polarize, they're stuck in 3rd density until they do. When the harvest comes, wanderers who have polarized back to the positive will return to their home density.

All wanderers are from the positive den