Cheating in Relationships (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Cheating in Relationships

[James81]

In on page 1 of what is sure to become a rather large thread.

(I enjoyed the article.)

[roxyruby]

does this go to show you cannot truly rely on and put your faith in other people to want you or be there for you?

Perhaps it is best if it is the relationship with yourself that you rely on the most and put the most faith in - a person that will never leave you...your self.

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by James81

In on page 1 of what is sure to become a rather large thread.

I'll wager that it will be on the shorter side, simply because there isn't anything controversial about it. Probably a lot of story-swapping.

[Jake Birkett]

Something else to consider when thinking about boundaries:

- Do you feel differently about having a one night stand with someone (perhaps after meeting them at a club/pub, or on vacation) versus having an affair with someone over a period of time?

To me there seems to be a difference.

[Jonathan Browne]

Cheating in my opinion is just messed up and stupid.

Be honest and loyal.

If you don't want your partner than break up with them. If your gonna be in an open relationship decide that's whats going on.

Personally I think the open relationship trend is going to be seriously crash and burn.

Why? Why do you need multiple lovers? It doesn't make sense to me. That's like having two sets of parents. There's no need for it.

Who has enough time to actually have a fully satisfying relationship with more than one significant other?

I mean this type of thing is just a slipperly ass slope.

So like if just doing stuff with other people is cool while in a relationship, why don't we just all hang out and have orgies all the time. We'll just have sex with everyone we meet like it's a normal part of hanging out with someone...

I mean comon. Casual sex is fine. But there's got to be a point where you still allow sex to be a significant and meaningful thing.

I just find it distasteful. No amount of philosophizing is gonna change my mind on that.

IMO, steve might be headed toward becoming a victim of his belief framework that he's created.

I feel like the idea of switching to different colored glasses has been thrown out the window.

I've always disagreed with the polarity thing and I think this whole open relationships idea is on the same wavelength.

It's too much. I'm all for 'expanding love' but everything has a point where you can just take it too far.

Just my thoughts though, your still cool steve, of course.

and it's your life to live how you choose.

[Snowfox]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Browne

Why? Why do you need multiple lovers? It doesn't make sense to me. That's like having two sets of parents. There's no need for it.

Who has enough time to actually have a fully satisfying relationship with more than one significant other?

I mean this type of thing is just a slipperly ass slope.

So like if just doing stuff with other people is cool while in a relationship, why don't we just all hang out and have orgies all the time. We'll just have sex with everyone we meet like it's a normal part of hanging out with someone...

I mean comon. Casual sex is fine. But there's got to be a point where you still allow sex to be a significant and meaningful thing.

I just find it distasteful. No amount of philosophizing is gonna change my mind on that.

You hit the nail on the head here. Polyamoury does not and never will make sense to me for that exact reason.

I cannot think of anything more gratifying, more sexy, or more truly erotic, than pure exclusivity. The banal relationship to me is a circus sideshow where multiple actors and performers are in rotation, and the whole gaudy thing is on perpetual display. The idea of giving and nurturing and sustaining a single individual with mindful focus and desire to grow deeply together is beyond fulfilling to me. Just thinking about it sets my head on fire .

[Angelique]

Originally Posted by Jake Birkett

Something else to consider when thinking about boundaries:

- Do you feel differently about having a one night stand with someone (perhaps after meeting them at a club/pub, or on vacation) versus having an affair with someone over a period of time?

To me there seems to be a difference.

I guess if sleeping with someone else is defined as cheating then the second one involves lying too. The feeling might be worse if you were cheated AND lied to for a while.

[Angelique]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Browne

I mean comon. Casual sex is fine. But there's got to be a point where you still allow sex to be a significant and meaningful thing.

Casual sex can be significant and meaningful for both parties. Time and exclusivity don't provide this setting by their mere presence. Just because you have a longer, exclusive relationship with someone doesn't mean the relationship is going to hit the deeper layers and it is possible to get to know someone very well in a matter of minutes/hours/days.

[moviseer]

"So in order to preserve the illusion of their monogamous relationship, they pretend everything is okay and try to avoid confrontation."

I found when it happened in my marriage that my motivation was to preserve the illusion that I was loved, liked and accepted rather than the illusion of the monogamy. I just didn't want to feel the intense feeling of rejection or the feeling that I might have wasted 6 years of my life in a relationship that was meaningless. I felt like I was worthless to him and tossed aside and that the family we had built was a worthless endeavor. These were the illusions I was most concerned with.

[Jake Birkett]

I guess if sleeping with someone else is defined as cheating then the second one involves lying too. The feeling might be worse if you were cheated AND lied to for a while.

Yes very good point. I was also getting at the idea that if you become emotionally involved with another partner that would probably have a different feeling for your main partner than if you "just had sex" with someone.

[Weena]

The lists are funny. My opinion about the cheating definition would be kisses and sex (that includes sexual things, not just intercourse). Gosh if i did not want my husband to touch woman's bodies we'd be broke by now. He touches women and men all day long .

For the list of "signs" I would not worry about most of what's on the list. I think if you're cheated on you just know somehow (6th sense thing).

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Weena

I think if you're cheated on you just know somehow (6th sense thing).

Yep!

I knew when my last boyfriend did the dirty, and I didn't even have to speak to him about it...I just left!

[Johnny Metal]

The advice about defining the commitment and regularly updating it is great, but I got bored reading the last two articles. On the other hand, the article before these two, the one with the "know-how" about how you write got me excited and inspired to act.

I wish you write an article about what would you focus on if you were to start StevePavlina.com all over again, but with the knowledge you have now. I read that your first profit was after 6-7 monthes, and it was like $16 (don't remember exact figure), I imagine that being the man you are now by day 90 you'd probably have provided so much value that you would be able to live a great lifestyle.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by Johnny Metal

I wish you write an article about what would you focus on if you were to start StevePavlina.com all over again, but with the knowledge you have now. I read that your first profit was after 6-7 monthes, and it was like $16 (don't remember exact figure), I imagine that being the man you are now by day 90 you'd probably have provided so much value that you would be able to live a great lifestyle.

I don't think Steve could do this. If you were to try to define the value of his articles you would have to say that it lies within allowing the reader to change lens or perspectives. A reader trying to implement all the discussions held within the blog posts would lead a life full of contradiction and confusion. Even if they tried to take it to its purest form of "conscious living", they would find that even their interpretation of that changed with time and life experiences. The conscious decisions of a ten year old are different to those of a forty year old, and so the whole concept of conscious living then simply boils down to "thinking a little bit before you act/ decide".

But the value of teaching lens changing is limited. Once people are able to do it for themselves there is no need to read articles written from a certain perspective. With a little practice, any viewpoint can even be molded into a TLP framework. If Steve was to write an article to state that he was creating a website about how to get people to "think" or "switch perspectives" it wouldn't sound very inspiring. Alcohol, meditation, drugs and chats with friends can all create the same shift. My take on all of this would simply be that if something sounds logicaly correct, yet doesn't "feel right", then it probably isn't right, and it probably isn't "your truth".

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by Johnny Metal

I wish you write an article about what would you focus on if you were to start StevePavlina.com all over again, but with the knowledge you have now. I read that your first profit was after 6-7 monthes, and it was like $16 (don't remember exact figure), I imagine that being the man you are now by day 90 you'd probably have provided so much value that you would be able to live a great lifestyle.

hmm thats a great idea for an article, atleast 4 me

[Federer]

What exactly constitutes cheating? Not everyone defines cheating the same way. Society may condition us to think of cheating a certain way, but deep down we may not feel the same.

It means society is dictionary and guided chapters to become a smart cheater. Yes, it is their decision what to do in their marriage life and how to live a better life?

It is very rare to find such society where people are highly honest and try to limit themselves when situation forces them to be a cheater.

Think about:

1. Your boundaries for yourself
2. Your boundaries for your partner
3. Your partner’s boundaries for his/herself
4. Your partner’s boundaries for you

This is most important for people.

[Johnny Metal]

Escapeplan, I wasn't clear enough.

What I mean is that I imagine that being the man Steve is now, if he was to start StevePavlina.com from scratch, he'd probably went from 0 to financial success in 90 days.

My definition of financial success being:
Manifest a passive income stream that can maintain the desired lifestyle.
(Manifest the value by doing what you love, promote and deliver this value effectively to people who benefit from it, and set up a system to monetize on the value you provide)

The articles would probably be slightly different, and some types of articles wouldn't even be there; he would probably found ways to promote the value faster, probably skipped the blog carnivals; also skipped the Google Adsense and others forms of monetizing the traffic, and instead focused on creating joint-ventures of products that he believes truly could help people. Stuff like that.

The entrepreneur in me is curious what he would do differently.

[escapeplan]

Johnny Metal,

I think I see what you mean, but I actually don't think Steve could start this again. In many ways this site is a trapping of his own success- perhaps, just perhaps, from an entrepreneurial perspective, capitalising out of a site like this is history, in the sense it couldn't be repeated now.

Steve is the man he is now and is therefore continuing this site. He is always free to close it and start a new one - but I suspect that we can look forward to articles becoming more and more controversial in order to maintain interest. And this is what I mean about the site being trapped in its own success. When you consider also how many others are blogging on PD nowadays it's possible that Steve knowing what he knows now, wouldn't attempt a site such as this, both he and the world have changed quite a bit since its origins.

[Jonathan Browne]

It would be perfectly possible to start a site like this again and have it succeed. New people come through and make lots of money all the time in this space.

What exactly has changed that makes you believe that? More competition?

I actually wish there was a lot more stevepavlinas. I find it very hard to find a lot of compelling personal development material out there.

Most of the "competition" is pretty mediocre. Really the only other blogger who I feel consistently releases a lot of timeless PD material is Timothy Ferriss.

If anything the amount of people coming online is only getting larger and the amount of kids growing up tech savvy and using the computer to find all information is going to be mindboggling.

The market is only increasing for this sort of material. It's kind of idiotic to think somehow the market is done now. That's like if 20 years after papyrus came out people were like "well seems like the market on scrolls is cornered here, no point in writing anything else down"

[Breathe Fully]

Originally Posted by Savage

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Cheating in Relationships

This is a great and very courageous post Steve.

Cheating is the elephant in the room.

It's there but no one dares to speak about it.


Setting boundaries:

Difficult difficult difficult to speak about them or to fix them with your partner.

Because the boundaries we would like from our partner are that he/she doesn’t even think about another woman/or man.
Let alone look or kiss.

Thousand of year of social conditioning are difficult to wipe out...

So we live in a constant (conscious) state of denial because we cannot accept it.

Setting boundaries would be a great solution first of all to embrace the fact our partner IS attracted by another person.

It's natural, it's physical.

Setting boundaries is a great solution to put the cards on the table:

1) Recognize both of us can be attracted by another person
2) Recognize both of us can cheat each other very easily
3) Talk about the consequences of cheating


What are the consequences in my point of view?

a) We lose our intimacy and love being “distracted” by cheating and the potential danger to get sentimentally involved with the person we are cheating with.
b) Nothing: we keep it only on the physical level and very separated from our union with partner


I think consequence a) can be the more common so if the couple can really conclude that:

1) Yes both of us can be attracted by another person
2) Yes both of us can cheat each other very easily
3) BUT if we cheat we will ruin our marriage in medium-long term

This would save a lot of union IF the couple is more monogame inclined.
(be careful I say more monogame not monogame because nobody can be 100% mentally monogame)

But Steve is right when he says everyone is unique.

Not everyone can stay with only one person; the physical attraction can be stronger than saving a marriage kids etc etc.

So if you are less monogame inclined and so your partner you should discuss about it and very frankly setting up the boundaries for both of you and eventually accept the fact you and your partner has experiences with other people.

This is called not having boundaries in the way of loving each other because every love is unique.

[bullard123]

I think Cheating is so selfish...People who do it only think about themselves and no one else. There is no justifiable reason for doing it PERIOD.

[curiouslyrandom]

Originally Posted by bullard123

I think Cheating is so selfish...People who do it only think about themselves and no one else. There is no justifiable reason for doing it PERIOD.

I think sexually abusing someone is so selfish... People who do it only think about themselves and no one else. THAT is the reason I used to justify cheating on my lousy, stinking, abusive ex husband, and I stand by that reason. The one time in 8 years that I cheated on him, I felt so wonderful. For once, I didn't feel like dirt, and I found that I could have an orgasm without actually having intercourse. It was amazing! It was like being tossed a life preserver while I was drowning. The fling only lasted a few weeks, but it made a positive difference in my life.

Years after our divorce, I heard he probably cheated on me plenty.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by bullard123

I think Cheating is so selfish...People who do it only think about themselves and no one else. There is no justifiable reason for doing it PERIOD.

Selfishness gets a bad rap. Contrary to popular wisdom, only thinking about yourself can have a better outcome than weighing the needs of everybody.

With that said, I think it's pretty gutless to sleep with somebody else while your S.O. thinks you're committed to them. There are exceptions (you go, curiouslyrandom!) but in most relationships it means that something is wrong and you either need to address it or break up with them before more damage is done.

Now I understand there may be an unexpected moment of passion where you cave when your will is weakest. If our self-knowledge (and thus control) is lacking we tend to find out at the worst times. In a situation like that it only makes sense to bring it to light if you actually care about the other person. The relationship might not survive honesty but hey, it isn't worth it if it doesn't. It's healthier than the alternative.

A lot of people cheat in order to destroy a relationship they want to end. Whether they intended to do it that way is irrelevant; skirt around a problem long enough and something is gonna break. If -you- (you in the general sense) commit to getting what you want in life and your current relationship isn't part of it then it's much more likely it can end amicably if there's genuine affection on both ends. If you're standing in place because you're afraid of hurting the other person's feelings then you're pinning your hesitence on someone else so you don't have to take responsibility. Man up; life does not reward the timid.

[mattmcc]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Browne

Why? Why do you need multiple lovers? It doesn't make sense to me. That's like having two sets of parents. There's no need for it.

Who has enough time to actually have a fully satisfying relationship with more than one significant other?

Why do we need multiple friends? Who has time to have fully satisfying friendships with more than one friend?

[bullard123]

Originally Posted by curiouslyrandom

I think sexually abusing someone is so selfish... People who do it only think about themselves and no one else. THAT is the reason I used to justify cheating on my lousy, stinking, abusive ex husband, and I stand by that reason. The one time in 8 years that I cheated on him, I felt so wonderful. For once, I didn't feel like dirt, and I found that I could have an orgasm without actually having intercourse. It was amazing! It was like being tossed a life preserver while I was drowning. The fling only lasted a few weeks, but it made a positive difference in my life.

Years after our divorce, I heard he probably cheated on me plenty.

Yes that is true also....No one deserves to be sexually abused. So why did you stay so long and deal with the abuse? It sounds like you were the one who was wronged here