Nice Guys Finish Last. Chicks Dig Darkworkers!

[Seth]

I’m new here so I don’t know if anyone has ever brought up the Seduction Community on these forums. But man, it could cause a glorious train wreck of ideals! Steve’s loyal followers are publicly denouncing his ideas and questioning his motives. They PM each other and post on rival message boards about Steve’s imminent downfall. Various other bad things happen. It is a dark hour for the Tao of Steve. The time has come (if it hasn’t already) to link to the Bristol Lair! Behold this link, and blow thy mind!

http://www.bristollair.com/inner-gam...out-women.html

Also feel free to take the blue pill, and continue with your scheduled programming.

[persephonevii]

But Steve is a Lightworker and he still scored Erin. But... I do agree and find that women do like men who dominate, take charge, lead which is a Darkworker approach to things.

[Kingston]

Light or dark is irrelevant. Only consciousness matters.

I already know everthing on that site by my own experience. Get to the next level and trust your intuition.

This is YOUR reality. Claim it.

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

It is a common misconception that male lightworkers are Mr Nice Guys. Maybe even Steve believes that cause in one of his recent posts, when describing a darkworker attitude, he wrote "no Mr Nice Guy".

I want to make it clear : Mr Nice Guys are not conscious lightworkers. Maybe they are trying to be, but then they are having serious lightworker syndrome.

Let me explain why :

First of all, let's make a definition. We are talking here about the Mr Nice Guys that DO NOT attract women. So it is a definition of nice guys related to women approach, as it is the topic of this thread.
These Nice guys, they try to seduce women by buying flowers, making compliments, inviting to diner and trying to please the girl they are talking to. They have been influenced by their Mom and by all the low level romantic movies that are bombarded on TV or Wherever.
They try so hard to be nice that in fact they are not themselves anymore. They don't say what they really think because they are afraid that the girl will not like them. Remember : "being modest in speaking truth is hypocrisy" (I think I read this in Steve's blog.)
So that is what they really are : hypocrites!!! Is that the definition of a light worker?
These nice guys that never have success with women, what do they want actually? Well, as men that don't see women often, they want to have sex, to GET love from the girl. This is why they buy things to please her. They think that they are not worth being liked by the girl so they buy presents hoping the girl will GIVE them sex in return (it is all unconsciuous or not completely couscious but it is true). Is that a lightworker attitude?

Now if these nice guys turned into jerks or what you may define as darkworkers, what would they do? they would be honest about what they want. They would not speak to the girl as if they would not want to have sex with her. They want to sex her, they show it, it works. Also they are not the girl's slave, they try to be "the prize", and it works.

Now my opinion of the lightworkers attitude towards girls to be successful would be :
Think that you are a giver. You give love to the girl. Therefore you don't need to buy her presents in order to seduce her, because you are not trying to buy anything from her.
You are honest with her. Therefore if you want to have sex, you don't try to hide it. (Don't say i want to sleep with you right away either allright, try genuinely to seduce her.)
You know that she probably likes to flirt and to be seduced. It is a natural game after all. So you try this to be an enjoyable ride for the both of you. You have fun, you create fun in her reality.
But in anycase, don't be an Average Frustrated Chump that is being a Mr Nice Guy, that is just lying and you won't be a lightworker with this attitude.

If you look carefully in the community of PUAs, you will see both attitude. Even, sometimes lightworkers attitude and darkworkers attitude will be the same seen from the outside. The only difference is in the motivation.

That is the end of this reply concerning Mr Nice Guys with the girls. However, we could extend that to
-Mr Nice Guys at ther job
-Mr Nice Guys with their friends
-etc.

You will see that those nice guys are just governed by the fear to be rejected. That is why they act so nice, always trying to please everyone. This attitude is of little help for others, and therefore they are poor lightworkers.

[Seth]

Theknightswhosayni-NI, you are 100% correct. Thanks for your perspective.

Kingston, you know everything on Bristol Lair from personal experience? How about the stories and how-to guides regarding three-ways with bikini models?

[Kingston]

Ok, you caught me there! I just meant the attitude in general and female psychology. I realised these things on my own. Thats one of the reasons I had a threesome, but I am not much into that but it was on my todo list. I rather focus on one at a time

My point was: when you advance your consciousness to the level of reason, you don't have much use of such a site. The theories you know already, either explicitly or implicitly, and the examples there are too situation- and person specific. If you have to study others techniques to get laid, you won't get laid. Women smell it a mile away.

In short, the site is a waste of time for me. For instance, I 'do' highly conscious (darkworker) women these days, and talking to them is way more inspiring than that website.

But have fun with it though. Just warning you, thats all.

[persephonevii]

Originally Posted by theknightwhosaysni-NI

I want to make it clear : Mr Nice Guys are not conscious lightworkers. Maybe they are trying to be, but then they are having serious lightworker syndrome.

I like that idea a lot. Being too nice and you end up being fake, and it doesn't matter whether it's a male or a female, romance or not. Being too nice makes you appear weak, subservient and fake and no one likes that. It's quite unappealing, if not downright repulsive.

I think that Mr Nice Guy is weak and a Lightworker is not weak, they are strong or in the process of becoming strong. I guess some people equate the nicey-wicey behaviour with the compassionate strength of a Lightworker, which are two totally different things.

[jojo]

I read this post with surprise...I am not sure, but you guys are talking about approximately 1% of the population. According to Steve's blogs (I am talking about this specifically in relation to Steve's blogs and not my personal opinion) only about 1% of the population is polarized. This means that the majority of the people (both male and female) you are talking about ARE not "lightworkers" or "darkworkers", they are simply people living life who might be 'nice', not 'nice' etc...

Many smiles!

[yossarian]

On the Social & Relationships forum here there is a lot of overlap with the whole seduction community thing.

It seems many people combine Steve's PD stuff with all the typical seduction stuff. Check out Social & Relationships if you want to see discussion on how they relate.

[Seth]

See how you guys like this, adapted from impaul99’s brilliant clarification:

People can act out of Love or Fear. All actions are vector sums of Love, Fear, and other components. Love moves you up the scale of consciousness. Fear moves you down. The other components don’t move you at all.

Therefore, the only way to move up the scale is through Love. There are exactly two forms of Love: self-love and world-love.

Self-love is to work on improving YOURSELF first. By loving yourself you will raise your level of consciousness, and be able to make a positive change in the world. Do not confuse this with selfishness (darkworker’s syndrome), which is a form of fear, and moves you down the scale.

World-love is to work on improving THE WORLD first. By loving others you will raise your level of consciousness, and be able to make a positive change in your own life. Do not confuse this with selflessness, called “approval-seeking” in the seduction community (lightworker’s syndrome), which is a form of fear, and moves you down the scale.

Now we have a useful definition of Love! Love is working to improve yourself or others. If you are working to improve a girl’s life, congratulations, you love her. “Unconditional” vs. “conditional” love is simply the spectrum from world-love to approval-seeking. Now Steve can stop throwing in after every sentence, “I’m talking about unconditional love, not the emotion of love.” Isn’t all love an emotion? He’s just trying to make the point that he’s not talking about approval-seekers who “love” a girl. True, buying her a drink is technically working to improve her life, but you're a loser so leave her alone.

You can only reach enlightenment by polarizing. If you eliminate all need for approval, and therefore love the world unconditionally, you polarize "Light." If you eliminate all selfishness, and therefore love yourself unconditionally, you polarize "Dark." God can become you, or you can become God. Your choice. Either way, it's the same!

Does anyone still want to argue that polarization isn’t necessary? Can you think of anyone who's enlightened and not polarized?

My point is, you can work on improving yourself (Darkworker), or you can work on improving the world (Lightworker). If you're not doing one of those two things, you suck at life, and Steve declares you a “useless drone.” Is the circle of Love not apparent? Yin and Yang? Self-love is DARK. World-love is LIGHT. There’s no need to cry and rename everything because Darth Vader gives you nightmares. Dark and Light are older and more powerful than you. The idea is to use the force, not change the names. Additionally, there’s that little dot of selfishness in self-love, and a dot of approval-seeking in world-love. Are you afraid that polarizing Light or Dark would upset the balance? Do the math: if you polarize Dark, you gobble up the black dot, and spit out the white dot. The balance remains. By they way, as you grow more powerfully Dark, someone else is growing more powerfully Light. Yin and Yang is a zero-sum symbol. Ever wonder why Jesus supposedly died to save us? What good did that do? It released his Light energy back into the world. Plus it's cool to get killed when you're enlightened because you come back "more powerful than you can imagine." Still want to argue that polarization is bunk because all love is the same? So should we change Yin and Yang to Gray Blob?

Yossarian, thank you for telling me about the Social and Relationships forum. I just ignored all the other ones and only read Steve’s. You might be right that they try to apply Steve’s stuff to relationships and seduction, but I just read some of the subject lines and threw up a little in my mouth. Anyways, I don’t want to learn about seduction from the vast majority of contributors here. They are not experts, so their advice is mostly misleading and useless. I am here on Steve’s Forum to learn about life. I respect all of you who post here and believe I am in the right place to discuss Life.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Seth

See how you guys like this, adapted from impaul99’s brilliant clarification:

People can act out of Love or Fear. All actions are vector sums of Love, Fear, and other components. Love moves you up the scale of consciousness. Fear moves you down. The other components don’t move you at all.

Therefore, the only way to move up the scale is through Love. There are exactly two forms of Love: self-love and world-love.

Self-love is to work on improving YOURSELF first. By loving yourself you will raise your level of consciousness, and be able to make a positive change in the world. Do not confuse this with selfishness (darkworker’s syndrome), which is a form of fear, and moves you down the scale.

World-love is to work on improving THE WORLD first. By loving others you will raise your level of consciousness, and be able to make a positive change in your own life. Do not confuse this with selflessness, called “approval-seeking” in the seduction community (lightworker’s syndrome), which is a form of fear, and moves you down the scale.

Now we have a useful definition of Love! Love is working to improve yourself or others. If you are working to improve a girl’s life, congratulations, you love her. “Unconditional” vs. “conditional” love is simply the spectrum from world-love to approval-seeking. Now Steve can stop throwing in after every sentence, “I’m talking about unconditional love, not the emotion of love.” Isn’t all love an emotion? He’s just trying to make the point that he’s not talking about approval-seekers who “love” a girl.

So far you're agreeing with everything I said as well, so I agree 100%

You can only reach enlightenment by polarizing. If you eliminate all need for approval, and therefore love the world unconditionally, you polarize "Light." If you eliminate all selfishness, and therefore love yourself unconditionally, you polarize "Dark." God can become you, or you can become God. Your choice. Either way, it's the same!

Kind of lost you there from the point of view that why couldn't I eliminate all selfishness and need for approval at the same time? In other words, why couldn't I work on accepting myself and the world unconditionally AT THE SAME TIME? Why do I have to pick only one?

Does anyone still want to argue that polarization isn’t necessary? Can you think of anyone who's enlightened and not polarized?

Well, considering the only real example of someone "enlightened" that I can think of is like Jesus and Buddha and both of them were alive a LONG time ago, it's hard to make a call. Were they polarized? Perhaps. Even if they were though, does it mean that it is THE ONLY PATH? Who says that the way they accomplished enlightenment is the only way possible? Perhaps due to Jesus, he might have paved the way for other paths? Who knows. I don't think the fact that one must polarize in order to become enlightened has been proven at all. If fact, my inuition is completely against the idea, and in my life experience it has usually been right.

My point is, you can work on improving yourself (Darkworker), or you can work on improving the world (Lightworker).

Why can't you do both again?

If you're not doing one of those two things, you suck at life, and Steve declares you a “useless drone.”

What if you're doing both really well? Like what if I'm as good at Darkworking and Lightworking at the same time as most people are doing just one? If I have the energy within me, why can't I do both if I like it?

So should we change Yin and Yang to Gray Blob?

So what you're saying is that we should polarize because the Yin/Yang symbol has black and white, and trying to do both would make it a grey blob?

If that's your line of thinking then what about this point of view: The Yin/Yang symbol was created to symbolize duality in everything, including the individual. The light side and the dark side of us. If you notice, the sides are in perfect balance. If I looked to the Yin/Yang symbol for wisdom on this topic it would say to me "BALANCE PAUL, BALANCE!" It clearly shows that the whole (the person) is made up of two parts, a light side and a dark side in perfect balance. The Yin/Yang symbol is not just a WHITE circle or a BLACK circle, it's both black/white at the same time in perfect balance. So if anything, the Yin/Yang symbol even more symbolizes my theory that the path towards enlightenment is the path of balance, not polarization towards one side.

[Erock]

Let me break this down for you guys once and for all:

Women DO NOT only like "bad" guys or the dudes that polarize with the "darkside."

Chicks like guys that have a lot of power over themselves and the world around them. The more polarized a man this, the more a women will be attracted to him. Women go crazy for guys that polarize strongly one way or the other. It DOES NOT matter which way.

The reason why society has the impression that girls like bad guys is because most men in our society who do polarize strongly (unconciously), polarize with the dark side, and are therefore more attractive to women then the conflicted, unpolarized "nice guys" who try to be nice, but at the same time try to maintain power.

There are very few men out there who have polarized with love, because society tries to instill masculine, macho values into boys and those that would have otherwise grown up to have polarized with love end up being nice guy wimps who are confused and powerless.

Believe me, men that truly polarize with love are a rare breed, and have no trouble attracting and maintaining solid relationships with women.

Erock

[Theo77]

reason, isn't that high of a level. Its like level three. The level just above total dependance (oral) and agression, territoriality (anal stage)

Basically the level just above relying on base animal instincts. Reason, is the level most scientists are stuck on.

[Theo77]

The article is not about finding a solid relationship. Its about scoring with lots of women. So what are you saying? You can score with lots of women, even married ones by polarizing to the light?

[Seth]

Erock is completely correct. It's not about which polarity you choose, it's about how far you polarize. Complete polarization would make you God, or God you, whatever.

increasing your level of counciousness = increasing your polarization

You gain power by choosing the path of Light or Dark and following it. I doubt Tyler Durden or Mystery could sleep with Erin Pavlina. Their methods rely on being more powerful than Steve, which they are not. Pickup Artists generally polarize Dark because developing the skills to cut down their opposition and steal the girlfriends fits nicely into the category of Darkworking. However, there are powerful Lightworking Puas who could possibly attract Erin, and make Steve uncomfortable. These guys believe it is their responsiblity to sleep with women, to free the true woman trapped inside and teach them more about their sexuality than they could imagine. The worst they could do is have a fascinating conversation with Erin, because they are at the same level of conciousness. And yes, Theo77, less-concious married women sleep with them every day.

Following that logic, you can see that unconcious women are the easiest to sleep with! ;-)

[Seth]

Originally Posted by impaul99

So far you're agreeing with everything I said as well, so I agree 100%

nice! I love agreeing. It goes both ways.

Kind of lost you there from the point of view that why couldn't I eliminate all selfishness and need for approval at the same time? In other words, why couldn't I work on accepting myself and the world unconditionally AT THE SAME TIME? Why do I have to pick only one?

Steve already answered that one. He said, "In the long run your lightwork and darkwork will interfere with each other. They can't help but interact. For example, in your social interactions, others will get an intuitive hit that your motives aren't pure, and they'll be less likely to trust you. They'll get the feeling that something isn't right about you, and they'll hold back on bringing you opportunities if they have the chance to deal with someone with a more obvious polarity. Even darkworkers are easier to trust because their motives and actions tend to be clear and consistent.”

I don't think the fact that one must polarize in order to become enlightened has been proven at all.

What?!? So Jesus wasn't all good? Isn't that the definition of Jesus? And God? Who else is on their level? The Devil? He's all bad! Someone with a Bible help me out here, I gave up on that stuff. Interesting how now it's coming back.

Why can't you do both again?

Because no one will trust you and you'll creep women out and they won't want to sleep with you.

What if you're doing both really well? Like what if I'm as good at Darkworking and Lightworking at the same time as most people are doing just one? If I have the energy within me, why can't I do both if I like it?

I admit, it sounds completely logical. But that's not how energy works, apparently. My intuition is equally strong as yours that you can't do both.

So what you're saying is that we should polarize because the Yin/Yang symbol has black and white, and trying to do both would make it a grey blob?

Finally you understand! That would look so ugly, wouldn't it?

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

Chicks like guys that have a lot of power over themselves and the world around them. The more polarized a man this, the more a women will be attracted to him. Women go crazy for guys that polarize strongly one way or the other. It DOES NOT matter which way.

The reason why society has the impression that girls like bad guys is because most men in our society who do polarize strongly (unconciously), polarize with the dark side, and are therefore more attractive to women then the conflicted, unpolarized "nice guys" who try to be nice, but at the same time try to maintain power.

Completely agree with you Erock

There are very few men out there who have polarized with love, because society tries to instill masculine, macho values into boys and those that would have otherwise grown up to have polarized with love end up being nice guy wimps who are confused and powerless.

Agree too, only I don't think that society has instilled macho values into boys. Quite the opposite actually. Well, it may depend on the society (I am in France) but to my opinion society has given us (males) the habit to hide from our masculinity. Nice guys are afraid or ashamed to show they desire girls...or even need their affection. (I know it, cause I have (almost HAD now) this problem.

True love and lightworking does not (or should not) interfere with masculinity I think. (masculinity is different from macho)

[ethereal]

For some reason I feel like the answer to this is just simply that Lightworkers usually don't care about picking up chicks (cause they're out to save the world), and Darkworkers usually care a lot about picking up chicks (cause they're out to enjoy themselves)

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

Originally Posted by ethereal

For some reason I feel like the answer to this is just simply that Lightworkers usually don't care about picking up chicks (cause they're out to save the world), and Darkworkers usually care a lot about picking up chicks (cause they're out to enjoy themselves)

I disagree.
People are not stereotypes. Don't make their motivations so simplistic. Well ok, maybe their ULTIMATE motivations might be simple (help others, help oneself), but there are many many many ways to create and bring value to the world. Infinite ways actually.

Would you say as well that lightworkers don't listen to music because they are here to save the world and not enjoy themselves? Then if it is the case, how would they CREATE music?

The most enjoyable path towards our goal is often the most efficient.

People are not stereotypes, each person has its own way, its own thinking, its own desire, its own fun. Lightworkers as well as darkworkers.

People often put label on others just because they perform one specific action that they think goes under one specific label, (for instance, picking up chicks = darkworkers), but that's not necessarily the case.

[ethereal]

Sorry for sounding like I was stereotyping, it wasn't my intention and was why I put "usually" in there

But to me it seems like an accurate statement, which I still stand by

I know back in my darkworker days, that was when I was most interested in PUA tactics and seduction. I justified it with the standard PUA lines of "she wants it anyway" and "it's for everyone's good", but the more I started polarizing towards lightworker the less important it seemed and the less I could believe what I said Sure, it's enjoyable, and maybe it IS creating some value in the world, but it just wasn't meaningful anymore.

[demk]

Love women.

[u2met86]

this is from the same website as the original post:

As Seduction Goes Mainstream - Pick Up and Seduction Database

it's basically an expert PU explaining why it's GOOD FOR SOCIETY that seduction becomes mainstream. guys improve themselves, raise their standards for the women they'll tolerate. more guys will become attractive "elites" (not just rock stars, athletes, rich guys). thus, women will have to step up & improve themselves, etc. etc. that's why the author loves teaching the stuff.

i honestly doubt that will really happen but the theory is a way to view seduction from a high-conscious lightworker perspective.

honestly, i doubt most men will use "seduction" materials, even though more and more people hear of them. why is that?

because available information doesn't equate to the discipline required to using it. best example? LOSING WEIGHT is (in theory) the easiest thing to do in the world: burn more calories than you eat. everyone today knows exactly what to do, but in practice (psychological, etc.) only about 20% actually follow thru. that number has been constant since way before we've had so much information.

[zpivat]

Look:
Answers to Why Single Women Are Attracted to Jerks

[ElizaJ]

I believe the only women who would want jerks are the women who have had relationship issues growing up. I think that once they become aware of the problem and resolve those issues, they will then be able to focus on looking for and/or finding Mr. Nice Right Guy.

[demk]

Originally Posted by ElizaJ

I believe the only women who would want jerks are the women who have had relationship issues growing up. I think that once they become aware of the problem and resolve those issues, they will then be able to focus on looking for and/or finding Mr. Nice Right Guy.

Women do tend to lean towards that certain dysfunction though.

In our society selfishness and machiavellianess is equated with competency. This is because big egos mean high self esteem which generally translates to the ability to supply necessary material things.

Obviously this forum is all about evolution. To attract women, be a good man. Be a good man in the sense that you have true value for the modern context.

[Shaden]

I'm not the type to mock anyone on the forums but I can't help but feel a smile tug at the corner of my mouth after reading this article.

Sex; the overrated challenge. Repeated bodily frictions until orgasm. Big whoop. I feel more enlightened already.

[Bonkers]

Your thinking of it all wrong if you think nice guys are lightworkers. Nice guys are actually Darkworkers pretending to be nice.

Nice guys often do things with a subconscious intent to have sex with a girl, because this is an act of selfishness they are darkworkers. NO nice guys give flowers/gifts etc just to make a girl feel good, they do it so she wants to have sex with them.

Im very much a lightworker in PUA, although a darkworker in finances (will that clash I don't know) and I do very well with women.

Im not a guy that lavishes women with presents, flowers etc, I go out clubbing to have fun and give others a good time, whether that be women or guys I don't care, I simply make friends and have fun. Because there is no intent to have sex or get anything from them (im currently in a monogomous relationship and love it) it generates a lot of attraction.

Now im not saying being a darkworker won't work, it will and it will work very well as long as you have the skills and immediatly let the girl know of your intentions. Women love bad boys that have nothing to hide precisely because they are not hiding anything.

Many of the top PUA's I'd classify as darkworkers as they often go out with the intent of picking up and scoring with as many women as possible. There are only a few I've met who I would call lightworkers (juggler is the only major one I know).

Being alpha is generally considered a darkworker thing because alpha males are the ones that immediately as they enter a situation they let the girls know what their intentions are (they intend to take someone home tonight) .

This was actually in one of styles newsletters a while back, mentioning a guy that went out 7 nights a week doing 15 sets a night and still had mediocre success. The reason he wasn't successful is because he was a drain on the social situation, he wanted all the attention focussed on himself and didn't care what anyone else had to say, he went into every set focussed on scoring rather than providing value to the girls. This guy clearly had a case of darkworker syndrome and once that was fixed he managed to score a hell of a lot better.

To sum up, as long as you are congruent with yourself you'll score or find a fulfilling relationship, whatever you want, but hiding your true intentions won't get you anywhere.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Shaden

I'm not the type to mock anyone on the forums but I can't help but feel a smile tug at the corner of my mouth after reading this article.

Sex; the overrated challenge. Repeated bodily frictions until orgasm. Big whoop. I feel more enlightened already.

This simply means you're only 'rubbing' the surface

[Shaden]

This simply means you're only 'rubbing' the surface

A pun and a metaphor.

Wow, I'm impressed. Even if it wasn't intentional that's still pretty cool

[Jenny]

I'd argue that the reason "nice" guys don't get the girls is that most of the self-described nice guys really aren't all that nice. It's just a social mask to hide, well, who knows what. A lot of the guys I've know through the years who have trouble getting women who want to be more than friends, or seem to get the "nice guy" speech a lot and/or get cheated on regularly disguise a really crappy passive-aggressive personality as nice. Well, it's not. It is also NOT the description of a so called lightworker.

In defense of bad guys (again, not sure most bad guys qualify as darkworkers) at least you know what you're getting and they are one hell of a good time.

Those said, ultimately good character traits are attractive. The shy, quirky guy wins every time!