Traveling the World (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Traveling the World

[Marina]

Steve,

Two words: Boarding School. There are a few American ones that start as early as third grade.

(Kidding ... sort of. Boarding school was one of the best experiences of my life, but I started in ninth grade, not third.)

Why not hire a nanny to travel with you? That way you can be together as a family, but you and Erin are free to get away for dinners and longer side trips without the kids. Many of my friends grew up accompanying their parents around the world and are much better people for it. In contrast, those of us who were raised by nannies at home while our parents were trekking across the globe missed out on both seeing the world and seeing our parents. I'd take the former any day.

Marina

[Camilla]

Steve,

Maybe it's because I'm from a small country (Denmark, Europe: the nearest border is never more than 200 km away!), where you can hardly go anywhere without leaving the country. However to me it is an unfamiliar believe, that children aged 3 and 6 shouldn't be able to travel.

Most people I know seem to believe, that once a child doesn't need diapers or special food anylonger it is really just a question of preparation.
Prepare the kid for what is going to happen, so they don't freak out when finding out that travelling time can be boring or that the food is different. And prepare strategies for yourself, so you can manage if/when they freak out anyway (for instance a new, secret toy you pull out 10 seconds before they start killing each other from boredom).

My husband has an 8-year-old daughter and I'm amazed at how curious and eager she is to try new things when abroad, compared to the same unwillingness at home.

Otherwise I agree with previous post: If you can afford a fulltime nanny - bring her along!

- Camilla

[geofones]

Totally agree, travel with a Nanny or even au-pair, especially one from the culture you are going to visit. It works great, especially since they can sleep in the kids room so its really not much additional expense. I always remember the aghast expression on the concierge's face when he saw our au-pair on arrival in a very de-luxe hotel in Dublin.
Rather surprised by this statement "They don’t travel very well" it seems a bit defeatist for you Steve :-)

[Espen]

First of all I must say I am surprised you've never traveled outside of the US (even tho you've mentioned it before). That will without doubt be some great experiences for you. Travel programs on TV can't even give you a fraction of what your senses will absorb when you're actually there in the middle of Ulan Bator, Karachi or where ever you choose to go.

Anyway I second Marina in taking a nanny with you. In my opinion that's the best solution when the children are that young – at least for the three years old. I think they will benefit tremendously from experiencing foreign cultures that early in life. And that goes especially for the older one who probably can grasp more than the younger one.

Happy traveling!

Espen

[Fortune]

Some time ago I read this website where a woman who was dying of cancer took her husband and her two small children on a boat trip around the world. I think it took them a year or two to complete the trip. Maybe that is an idea (although they were attacked by pirates at least once ).

[Sphinx]

Getting firsthand experience of other cultures, especially those that are very different from mine, is something I’m itching to experience.

With the mention of different culture than yours I must say you must visit Egypt (and if you did then please be my guest) as it is very normal here to let the kids with their grandfathers/mothers while parents are away.

Actually me and my wife did that when we were making Omrah (Visiting Mecca) in Saudi Arabia.

[dalante]

If right now, they don't travel very well, is it permanent or only temporary due to their young age? My parents travelled a lot when I was young. Usually, they would take me with them and this was great. Thanks to that, by the time I was 10, I had seen a lot of different places (Greece, Turkey, Spain, Italy, Germany, etc) This was truly a eye/mind opener for me. So it it's possible, why not take them with you? Canada, which is a good place to start since you're so close and it's great for family holidays (camping, nature trips, canoeing, etc)

Occasionally, my parents went on their own. If it was for a short time (week end), a nanny would look after us. If it was for a longer time, we'd go and stay at relatives' (uncles, grandparents, etc) It made everyone happy.

And if you want to really get in touch with another culture, you can of course travel abroad, but you can also live abroad for a little while, and put your kids at an English speaking school.

[Dolazy]

Was this blog post meant as an answer to this post? :-)

[ranchnet]

We've taken our daughter to a few places - she's five now - and my wife and I traveled a lot when we were younger and kid-free, too. We're leaving in December for 5 months in Paraguay (gulp!) as a family, so I'll definitely have more to share at that point, but I do think the best thing to do is just...go. Pack up the kids, go somewhere, and accept that it'll be an experience, and almost certainly a great one.

Extended international travel (particularly with kids) is the easiest thing in the world to NOT do. There's never a perfect time, there's never enough money, it's never going to be stress-free.

But then you go, and it turns out it was the perfect time. And there was enough money. And it was the good kind of stress that makes you grow.

Or, at least I hope that's how it works out. It always has thus far, but this next departure has me more rattled than usual.

Anyway. Just go. Stretch yourself. Be safe and smart, but figure it out on the run.

Dan (in Canada)

[dcldnl]

About Europe: you can use London as basecamp, your children will not have problem with the language and you can travel all around Europe.
I know that you like to walk, if you need some advice about hiking in Italy I can help you :-)

[Mary Kniskern]

I have to join the "take them with you" team, although I do really understand the challenges of sightseeing and such with little ones.

I'm not sure why you see it as so difficult or a bad idea. Could you help us understand your concerns?

Take the nanny along, and let them do something kid-oriented while you take in the major sites. There are several books along the lines of "____ with kids".

Your six-year-old especially will benefit--absorbing different sensations than you do, and processing them as they relate to a six-year-olds understanding, but none the less integrating the experience into a broader world view. For example, I have vivid memories of visiting our gardener's village in Ethiopia as they were preparing for a wedding in his family. As I look back now, I get an intellectual sense of the financial poverty they lived under, but that wasn't what hit me at six. I thought the kids were lucky not to have to wear all the clothes in that heat that I had to wear. The chickens were cool! I made a sling for my doll that matched the ones my peers used to carry their younger sibs. And I know what a mud hut really looks like. It's the emotional connections that really last, and what endures for me is the overwhelming sense of joy those people had. And "they're mostly just like me". The intellectual (eg. poverty) I applied to those images as I grew up.

If you choose to stay for a longer period of time, I'd even encourage you to consider putting your kids in the local school, particularly when they're young. You're certainly able to fill in any gaps they might experience between what the local schools teach and what they'd learn in US schools. And the experience is priceless. (My two eldest attended yochien-Japanese preschool- while we were there with their dad's military service-and it was a marvelous way to integrate with the community.)

Travelling anywhere with kids is more complicated than with just two adults, but you can do it, especially since you're in the financial position to take child care with you. That would let you all have family time, and still have adult adventure time as well.

Bon voyage!

[wheelie]

Kid Kennel? You didn't really think that one through did you Steve? I like the idea OK otherwise.

My brother and I are both new fathers and we recently had an insightful discussion on this topic. We are concerned about raising our children in this American society that feeds on commercialism, glorifys youth and arrogantly bosses the world around. We spoke of how humbling it can be to expose oneself to an unfamiliar culture and what a strong and dynamic social skill foundation that is laid from being a vulnerable guest of another country and culture. We conclude that this international cultural exposure is a necessary tonic to temper the sometimes ludicrous and hollow ideals and that are the undercurrent of Western society.

Take your kids with you. Bring a Nanny or invite a Grandparent to share the experience. I definately would not want to exlude my child from such adventures and it could be a wonderful way to strengthen your clan.

[purplefibermom]

Use these tender years to get your kids ready for more strenuous and interesting trips. Take them on day trips to museums and parks and concerts and all the fabulous local sites your city has to offer . Don't make the mistake of forcing too much into one day - when they've had it, go home. Little by little they will become more travel ready - take them on longer trips - they can learn how to entertain themselves in the car if you plan ahead and bring a well stocked backpack with books, games, art supplies... Stop often and enjoy the beauty and wonder of the places along the way - and give those little bodies time to run and move and get their energy out.

Patience is key when traveling with children. Try to adjust your adult expectations for a trip to their perspective. As they get older, you will be able to explore and experience the world together. Trust me - these years will rush by.

[ImOpen]

Wow, I post this thread:
This note is for you Steve.
and the next thing I see is "traveling the world".

Cooooool!
I'm sure it's a great goal.
(By the way, I don't see why you cannot take your children with you, at least in two years or so... just ask your local travel agency. I actually think it is a bit "american" to be too secure when it comes to this. There is always someone, even in China etc, who speaks English. And if so you'll get around no matter what. )

[Patrick]

Hi Steve,

In march 2005 my girlfriend and I went to New Zealand for 4 weeks. One day we were at a youth hostel and a car arrived. Out stepped one young man and one young women. They were from Sweden. The woman then took a small cradle from the backseat. You guessed it: baby onboard. They just packed some stuff and their kid, flew 24 hours to NZ, rented a car and had a lot of fun. The three of 'em.

I'm sure you might have some reasons not to take your kids, but then again, why not? Especially if that solves your problems. If you wanna climb the Eiffeltower by yourself, send the kids away with mom to go shopping the Champs Elysee. When mom wants to go see The Sacrada Familia in Barcelona, you take the kids to have a drink on the Ramblas. Then you're off to Toscane (Italy) to experience great sightseeing together.

If you really want, you can drop the kids here in Holland. Everybody works here, so we've got plenty of nurseries. Costs you as little as 200 dollars a day...per kid

Patrick

[ian]

Steve,

I think the limiting belief you need to work on is the idea that you can't take the kids with you. According to your own principles, if you start believing that they travel well and treat them that way, then that will become the reality.

Two years ago I was on a trip with my family (kids were 5 and 3 at the time). We made several stops in various parts of the country, and through poor planning, wound up facing a 10 hour drive on one leg of the trip. The kids had never endured that many hours of driving in one day, but we decided to go for it and threw in a bunch of stops where we would play or explore a small town. The trip was enjoyable, the kids did well and we didn't have a single meltdown. We just decided to do it, made it as fun as possible for everyone, and ended up exceeding our own expectations.

Don't leave the kids out. Bring them with you. Whenever that presents a conflict, try knocking down the other wall first.

[joanmhe]

Hi - this is another bring the kids vote. My daughter had a passport at 3 months and has been to England, Ecquador, Switzerland, Germany, and 3 Canadian provinces. Whenever I take a trip with my partner sans kids, I always think about how much they would be benefitting - imagine learning about ancient Greece by going to Athens. My daughter's school essays about the trips showed how much more she got out of the trip than I even realized at the time! She's an A+ student in Spanish because she picked up quite a bit from 2 weeks in Ecuador when she was 6. She's a pretty high-maintenance, high-strung kid, and we never had a nanny, though it helps to have been staying with foreign friends and relatives for some of the time.
My sister has taken her kids on extended trips to France and Italy - her advice is to dress them in Gap hoodies, so that when they get lost in the Cathedral, they will be easier to describe and find.
The trip with kids won't be the same - you will need to adapt your itinerary for their needs and interests, so you will see and learn different things.
One of my favorite memories is of our 8 year olds making fast friends with another child at the Swiss alpine hut, though neither spoke each other's language. They spent hours together carving with their new Swiss army knives, and hopping on rocks in the alpine twilight, communicating in the universal way of children.
Your kids will be grown in a blink of an eye, so treasure the opportunity to travel with them now.
Joan

[Fortune]

Originally Posted by dcldnl

About Europe: you can use London as basecamp, your children will not have problem with the language and you can travel all around Europe.

Heh, language will be the least of your kids' problems. Put them in a local school and they'll speak any foreign language in no time.

[Jim]

I think the most practical solution will be for us to get a long-term nanny who can take care of the kids, while Erin and I leave town for a few weeks. We can afford one right now, but Erin is hesitant to leave the kids for so long, so we’ll have to work on those limiting beliefs there too.

Steve -

Your kids are your creation and I find it very selfish of you that you don't try to find a means to include them in this trip. Having a parent gone for a long period of time (and having to stay with some stranger) would be scary for a three year old.

Besides that, you only have so much time with your kids. If traveling the world is this joyous experience, isn't it worth waiting until the children could share this with you as well? They are your legacy; are they not worth the intellectual and emotional investment?

Sorry if I sound a bit mean, but you really came off as "Hey, let's the dump the kids off and travel the world". Maybe the article was written in haste but you seemed to be lacking any deep consideration (which is not like you). The post sounded more like a rant I'd expect from some Hollywood star being interivewed on Entertainment Tonight. Very unimpressed.

[Rich Fletcher]

Two points: First, "Kid Kennel" needs some work. Conjures up kids in cages, sorry. I know sometimes you can wish for something like that, though!

As numerous people have mentioned, traveling with children is not a non-starter. Many, probably most areas of the world are far more kid-friendly. Facilities-wise, it can sometimes be more difficult (but really, who cares if you're changing a diaper on the ground? You get used to it.) But the cultures are far more approving of children without the "I don't want to see or hear your children" vibe that is more common in the US.

Also, consider homeschooling. You heard it here first. I'd be suprised if you haven't yet considered homeschooling, Steve. Travel is a great way to learn.

[JJP]

LOL, Steve, sounds like you either need to work on your subtle humor technique or learn to love your kids more... I mean, Kid Kennel? Hahahaha

[Hugo]

Steve,

I second the opinion that taking the kids would be wonderful, a lot of people here has said that taking a nanny would be a good solution.

My wife almost started working as a tutor/nanny for tutors, tutor recruitment, private tutors & private tutoring – tutors international. In my opinion a great, but expensive, way for finding an experienced person that will help with your kids while making sure that they don't miss out on any schooling they would have gotten if they stayed at home.

Also...Kid Kennel... ugh don't think that that will ring very well with most parents , you wouldn't want to treat your kid like an animal.

ps: if you go the tutorsinternational route, I wouldn't mind a ping to get a referral

Aloha,
Hugo

[travelhappy]

I'll third the idea of travelling with your kids, not leaving them behind.

I'm British, and I grew up in the city of Plymouth for the first 18 years of my life. It's a big city but pretty much a backwater. My parents took me to South Africa when I was 10 years old and it left an indelible impression on me, one that made me want to keep travelling ever afterwards. I live in Bangkok, Thailand now, so I guess it worked ;-)

As other posters have mentioned, you can easily choose kid-friendly, low-stress destinations like New Zealand, Australia and the UK that have similar standards of living to the US where you don't have to worry about the water supply or strange food for your kids... they will love and soak up their new surroundings and who knows what it will spark in them later on in life.

Moreover, when you get more confident about travelling with your kids, you can come to somewhere like Thailand. It's more of a culture shock and not so orderly as the above mentioned countries, but Thai people - indeed, Asians in general - dote on children and will give them and you a warm reception.

Best,
Chris

[Savage]

Thanks for all the advice.

We've recently did a day trip with the kids to Utah, but it didn't work out too well.

Emily (6) is fairly resilient, and I can imagine taking her on long trip without much trouble. Kyle (3), on the other hand, is very sensitive and has had some sensory development issues. When he gets tired or upset, he usually loses it and will scream and cry continuously -- it takes him a long time to calm down even if we try to help him. For example, if he sees a bug, he may scream for 20 minutes straight. If you look at him a certain way, he'll scream. If you ask him to do something, he'll scream. When we travel with him, he spends a good part of the trip screaming at the top of his lungs because of his sensitivity and sensory issues.

He's gradually getting better and will probably outgrow this phase within the next year or two. Once that happens it will make traveling with the kids a lot easier.

All kids are unique. Kyle is in preschool now, and the positive side of his being so sensitive is that he's extremely emotionally aware of what others are feeling. He goes around hugging the other kids regularly, his teachers adore him, and he already has a "girlfriend." That quality will serve him well once he learns to manage his own emotions a little better.

Kid Kennel was just a joke by the way.

[Luca]

How about you do one trip just you and Erin and another trip with the kids? It's always good for couples to get away on their own for some time. May be the grandparents could take care of them for a week or two. That way you don't have to worry about leaving the kids with a stranger. It will also make your absence easier on the kids since they are with the grandparents.

Being from a different county and having traveled to several other countries I can say that traveling/living abroad is a life changing experience. Whatever it takes to do it, you should do it. However, I don't think that leaving Erin behind with the kids is a good idea. It's way more fun when you travel with someone else and can share the experience (of course, unless you're a hermit which I don't think you are )

[ridiaz]

Hi Steve, I am sure you will find a way to manage the taking care of your kids and when you do dont forget to visit Macchu Picchu in Peru, South America, its a very mistical place supposed to be the magnetic centerpoint of earth.

[fourthdan]

Steve - u gotta see dubai (that's where i live)... ok, i guess i'll end up starting everyone to go - "come to <insert place where person lives>"!!!

and you definately cannot miss out india (that's where i'm from)...
i'm sure you'd love what you would see and find of the spirituality there.

But i'm glad you're travelling the world... i've travelled to quite a few places in europe and asia, and though i've never been to the states, I intend to visit soon. Travelling really is wonderful...

[Patrick]

So no kids while travelling the world then I guess. You really sound like someone who doesn't travel a lot. Still developing the travel skill

If you really want to *see* anything, you need to be away for more than two weeks. I live in Europe and when I get to see one capital, I'll stay there for at least 4 days to get a decent impression. When I visit a small country, I'll stay a week. For a good impression of a big country or more than one country, I need two weeks. New Zealand was 4 weeks and I still have the feeling I did not see enough. The world is HUGE Steve. Despite everything they may have taught you in school. America is just a spot on the globe. We Euopeans sometimes joke around about those Americans imagining their own country as the center of the world and the biggest thing next to Ghandi.

When I was a student I lived next to a house that housed Americans. Students they were too. Apart from cooking raw pasta with tomatosauce they used drugs and travelled Europe. Some took a week off from their studies and visited Europe in that time. They raced from London to Paris to Madrid and then to Prague and Vienna. Some of them even got near Moscow! All in one week! Do you know what they actually saw? The inside of a bus, bars and the lids of their own eyes.

I'm just saying that if you wanna see a bit of the world, you need to relax and take your time. If you can't afford that, then Google Earth is your next best friend

Pat

PS: I think your remark about Erin's apparent 'limiting belief' might be a bit near sighted. Not a thing I expected from you. I hope you'll be careful with a woman's feelings...

[elainevdw]

Talk about synchronicity. I just had lunch with my coworkers who told me not to let anything stop me from my dream of travel. Then my friend e-mailed me out of the blue with photos from her hostel-hopping trip throughout northern Australia. Now this blog post! If messages come in threes, I guess this means I should start planning my scuba/surfing trip to Tahiti.