Traveling the World (Blog)

[annie]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Thanks for all the advice.

We've recently did a day trip with the kids to Utah, but it didn't work out too well.

Emily (6) is fairly resilient, and I can imagine taking her on long trip without much trouble. Kyle (3), on the other hand, is very sensitive and has had some sensory development issues. When he gets tired or upset, he usually loses it and will scream and cry continuously -- it takes him a long time to calm down even if we try to help him. For example, if he sees a bug, he may scream for 20 minutes straight. If you look at him a certain way, he'll scream. If you ask him to do something, he'll scream. When we travel with him, he spends a good part of the trip screaming at the top of his lungs because of his sensitivity and sensory issues.

He's gradually getting better and will probably outgrow this phase within the next year or two. Once that happens it will make traveling with the kids a lot easier.

All kids are unique. Kyle is in preschool now, and the positive side of his being so sensitive is that he's extremely emotionally aware of what others are feeling. He goes around hugging the other kids regularly, his teachers adore him, and he already has a "girlfriend." That quality will serve him well once he learns to manage his own emotions a little better.

Kid Kennel was just a joke by the way.

Here's my two cents...coming from experience and echoing a few suggestions above.

Homeschool.....with a motorhome!!!!

It's perfect, I did it with 5 kids! We saw all the US history sites, and there was always food, places for the kids to nap or watch a video if they were bored. It works out well.

I bought a used motorhome ($15,000) used it for 2 years and got nearly the same out of it. (only 1 word of caution....I know lots of people that every time they drive their motorhome out of the drive-way it costs them $500)


Nanny....did that also when traveling. That's the way to go when you go abroad.

Wait a few more years.....that will work out better when they actually like traveling a bit more.

annie

[kat]

They're old enough to travel with; my parents were taking my sister and I from Canada to France and Italy by the time we were 3 and 5. The only major problem I can see, from what you've said, is how Kyle screams a lot; give him some time to grow out of it.

One of my uncles (in the USA) has 2 kids a few years older than yours; he's been thinking of taking them to Europe to visit my family (we live in Switzerland now) for the last few years; he wants to make sure they're old enough to remember the trip.

Some family friends visit from Canada on a more or less yearly basis as well; two of them have have visited twice with a child younger than Kyle, and that's worked out perfectly well.

It may be easier when you're visiting friends or relatives; I don't know, as that's the only way I've seen people I know personally travelling with young kids.

In short: your kids are old enough to travel with! What you need to do is decide what you want from travelling, for yourself, talk to Erin about what she wants, and think a bit about what your kids can get out of it (Emily might be old enough to ask; it might be interesting to see what she'd come up with if you set her loose with a tour book), and take Kyle's sensitivity into account.

[Ati]

Originally Posted by ImOpen

Wow, I post this thread:
This note is for you Steve.
and the next thing I see is "traveling the world".

Cooooool!
I'm sure it's a great goal.
(By the way, I don't see why you cannot take your children with you, at least in two years or so...

Just a quick thought here...kids at 3 and 6 are changing so quickly and they are all so different really. I'll bet if you drum an intention to find just the right time(s) in regards to your own kids' development to travel with them, you will find those times! Just need to be open enough to capture the opportunity and I'll bet you are

all best and keep us posted!

[ImOpen]

Actually why should age be of any concern at all?
My family moved to the United Stated for one year and I was not a month old back then. Of course, I don't remember anything, but just the mere thought that I've been there and that I learned how to walk in another country is empowering for me and has given me a willingness to explore.

[JeffS]

Ditto on synchronicity ...I have a big project I'm working on over the next few months, and decided that to motivate myself, I needed to put a big prize at the end. The prize I decided on (tentatively, anyway): a trip to China and Tibet. Then, <ding>, my bloglines alerts me to Steve's post.

[Erin Pavlina]

I'll just jump in here with a few tidbits about this from my perspective.

Steve and I never did much travelling before we had kids. We wish now that we had. We love experiencing new cities together. We discovered that when we travel with our kids it's a totally different type of experience than when we travel alone.

When we're with the kids, we have to make sure they are happy, entertained, and comfortable. So when we DO take them travelling with us we plan our activities around things the kids will enjoy.

When we're not with the kids, we like to go to seminars (not kid-friendly), and meditate for an hour on a rock (kids won't let us do that either), and spend a long time gazing at art in museums or playing in the science museum.

So there are two types of trips we like to take. The kind where we are focused on the kids and their needs, likes, and dislikes, and the kind where we can be romantic, take our time, be alone, reconnect with eachother, etc.

We don't have family who could travel with us for that long, and we don't want to leave them behind for that long either. So basically we're waiting until they are older before we take them on long vacations with us.

We'll get to it eventually. We're patient.

I like the idea of bringing along a nanny, though, so we can spend some time doing fun kid things with the kids, and then maybe do some more adult fun things in the evenings. That certainly seems like the most viable option in the future.

Thanks for your ideas. I would love to see Machu Pichu

[J1234]

Erin,
Tent camping might be a happy compromise. Mountain air might tire the kids out quickly and leave plenty of time for meditation. You all could sit in a boat on a lake somewhere and pretend to fish with the kids (use all the gear, but forget to buy the hooks).

If you go to museums, you could ask the kids to bring their sketchbooks. Many famous museums allow young artists to sit on the floor and sketch work done by old masters.

[Erin Pavlina]

I've actually never gone camping, but have always wondered what it would be like. Steve did a ton of camping growing up and he has wonderful stories. I have to admit to being a little bit of a wuss when it comes to doing anything rugged. I think we're the only people I know who went to Yosemite and stayed in the hotel the entire time.

[J1234]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Kyle (3), on the other hand, is very sensitive and has had some sensory development issues. When he gets tired or upset, he usually loses it and will scream and cry continuously -- it takes him a long time to calm down even if we try to help him. For example, if he sees a bug, he may scream for 20 minutes straight. If you look at him a certain way, he'll scream. If you ask him to do something, he'll scream. When we travel with him, he spends a good part of the trip screaming at the top of his lungs because of his sensitivity and sensory issues.

He's gradually getting better and will probably outgrow this phase within the next year or two.

Steve, I hate to assign negative labels, but isn't this a tantrum?

There's a positive way of dealing with them.
1. Stay calm. He's trying to get you to freak out.
2. Raise your expectations. Say "Kyle, you're a big boy now. Screaming like this is only for babies."
3. Refuse to interact with him unless it's on your terms. Say "Kyle, I don't understand baby screaming. Talk to me with big boy words."
4. If he refuses and you are at home, ignore him until he cooperates. If you are in a public place and both you and Erin are together, one of you can bring him to the car and wait with him there. If you and Erin are apart, do your best to act as if nothing is happening while making sure that he is safe.

Rhamina Bawldwin might be a good source.

[Henry]

Kids are such a hassle on vacation. I don't have any myself but I do see them on leashes in Disneyworld and it looks miserable.

Do you have grandparents or relatives you can leave them with for a few weeks? Care from relatives is better than a nanny.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Thanks for all the advice.

Kid Kennel was just a joke by the way.

Lucky, because otherwise you'd have to negotiate with Mr. Nate Miller.. =)

Registrant:

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (Internet Domain Name Registration, Domain Transfers. Your domain name search starts here.)
Domain Name: KIDKENNEL.COM
Created on: 18-Aug-03
Expires on: 18-Aug-07
Last Updated on: 06-Feb-05

Administrative Contact:
Miller, Nate nate@njektd.com
487 south street
Haymarket, Virginia 22010
United States of America
703-226-4660 Fax -- 703-226-4660


I actually liked the name... It's IRONY PEOPLE!

[emf]

My first thought was that you should travel with the children and a nanny but I think that was just my knee jerk reaction to Erin's misgivings about leaving the children. It was a fear based response. Leaving your children with loving grandparents for a few weeks will be a wonderful bonding experience for the kids and their extended family. As the kids discover they can trust and have fun with other adults they will become more independent and better travelers. It will also help Erin detach from her fear and ensure that neither of you begins to think of the children as obstacles to your personal growth. The cost of plane tickets for two children and a nanny can be excessive and, since one of your children is sensitive, there is a risk when trusting a non-relative with such a great deal of responsibility in a foreign country. They might be too harsh because they too will be under some stress. If you and Erin can travel to a foreign country for a week or three, and combine business with the thrill of experiencing the trip together, you should definitely do it. How lucky you are to have that option.

[sourceofmiracles]

that is hilarious.

[crasch]

I've not read the book, but it seems like it might have some good tips for world traveler's with small children:

Amazon.com: Adventuring With Children: An Inspirational Guide to World Travel and the Outdoors (Avalon House Travel Series) (Avalon House Travel Series): Books: Nan Jeffrey

Adventuring With Children: An Inspirational Guide to World Travel and the Outdoors

Nan Jeffrey's classic guide to adventure travel is not to be missed by any family interested in--or even curious about--traveling off the beaten path. Jeffrey, who has traveled with twin boys and a baby, covers every possible aspect of adventure travel: hiking, biking, sailing, canoeing, and basic world roaming. You'll get down-and-dirty tips (ways to calculate how many diapers to take to a tropical island--and how to wash them), good preparation advice (learn to live in small places, study another language, take practice hikes, turn off the television), and suggestions for great family destinations. No, Jeffrey doesn't mean Club Med or Disneyland--she suggests instead Nepal, the Alps, Alaska, Guatemala, or Turkey. Adventuring with Children is not only fascinating and informative, as its subtitle promises, it's inspirational as well. Whether you're off to Bali, Chile, or Morocco, you can now be sure to have a bon voyage! --Ericka Lutz

[julien]

Travel when you are young

So far I've spent my childhood in France, then some time in London, 1 year in New York, and now almost 1 year in China. Next target: Australia ! I promise, the day I turn 28, I get married get my gf pregnant and I settle down !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aelle]

A great way to travel with kids, especially if you plan to stay long enough aborad, is house / appartment swapping. Find a foreign family who'd like to come to Vegas for a few weeks or months and exchange houses! This way, your kids will have a real place to stay (more comfortable and personal than a hotel room), with their own bedroom, they'll find toys... etc...

I went to Quebec like this with my family when I was 13 (my youngest sister was 7) and I loved it!

There are several websites that will help you put such a project together.

You should know that it's not possible for Japan, though (it's illegal to subrent or host someone in your appartment if you are not in it)

[ottantaventi]

Hi Steve,

I live in Venice (Italy), so when you'll be in this part of the world, please drop me a note: you gave me so lot with your posts and I'll be pleased to have a vis-a-vis chat with you and show you something of this beautifull lagoon-city.

ciao
alexander

[River]

Steve, I'm a long-time reader of your blog and I've often noticed that you mention your children very rarely. Not a criticism, just an observation. Perhaps it's out of respect for their privacy.

For me, parenting has enabled huge, and I mean HUGE, growth in all areas of my personal and professional development. Finding my purpose, improving time management and efficiency, overcoming social anxiety, even reducing my sleep requirements ... those are just a few areas where I can thank my kiddos!

For what it's worth, I've made several 12-15 hr trips by plane with my two children solo, without my husband. He needed to travel on a different schedule and there was no way I would leave my children when they were so young. One very spirited, intense 3-year-old and one 9-month-old baby. I've had many strangers pause to tell me how brave I was. But really it was not so hard! Attitude is everything. I just expect to enjoy my travel companions and you know what-- I really and truly do.

A practical idea- can you travel with another family? It's often easier when the kids can entertain each other and also allows the adults to trade off taking the evening off. And consider staying at an apartment-style rental instead of a hotel.

annie-- It's my husband's dream to travel the country homeschooling in an RV!1

[marieke]

I cannot imagine going on a trip without my children. It is really the best to make an international trip an experience for the whole family. We live in the Netherlands, and I guess it helped that I have lived in Brazil and the US before (each for 1 year).

When my youngest was 6 weeks old, I took him to Canada for a business trip. I had a great time there. Just bringing my child along on a business appointment. I was breastfeeding him so it was either take him or quit breastfeeding :-)

The only thing you need, is to schedule a little more time for adjusting to the new time schedule.
We just returned from a DisneyWorld trip (6 hours time difference), where we spend 10 days. Of course DisneyWorld is one of the easiest things to visit with kids :-)

But we did also visit Gran Canaria, many other countries in Europe and the USA twice with the kids, we live in the Netherlands.

In January we will be in Brazil for 5 weeks with our children: 4 yo, 3 yo and 1 yo. 5 hour time difference.

While we have a lot of experience with aupairs in our house. It is really great to be together on a trip as a family.

Preparation is everything: every child gets a small suitcase full of toys, candy and a present to enjoy on the plane. Being on holiday locations they go to bed later than at home.

[marieke]

Most important is that you take enough time for your trip. You really cannot see Europe in 2 weeks, especially taking your children.

But isn't it great to enjoy the moments? Walking on the streets that feel different, smell different and where you hear other languages is mighty cool as well!

Maybe only visiting France or Spain or... And come back a year later to visit another country. Most important that a holiday gives time and pace to relax.
So you can feel refreshed when you return back home.

There is an abundance of time left in our lives, why hurry? :-)

[Zazoo]

Hi Steve!

Well, in France (the country I live in and was born in), leaving children for a long period of time is unusual. I know a few families who travelled all around the world. Parents decided to take children with them! just one school year off is not really grave for them. And the experience of travelling all around the world at 5, 6 or 10 years old is irreplaceable. All the families I know who experienced this are still benefiting from it.

See you,

LL,
Daniel

[cedc]

I have to say that this was kind of a strange post from someone who also posts on subjective reality
River, above makes a good point about children and their natural abilities to be great teachers. This is because young children are perfect mirrors of their parents until they "grow out of it" and become their own persons losing some of their reflective ability
I can't really give you much advice because I really like travelling with my children (despite the problems that can occur). It would never occur to me to leave them behind, it would mean missing out on too much. The benefits far outweigh the troubles. Once again, as River said "Attitude is everything. I just expect to enjoy my travel companions and you know what-- I really and truly do."
And remember, kids love science museums and can offer some of the best critical appraisals on artwork. In fact I think they have a better sense of knowing what's good and what's trash than most art critics
One last thing, and I don't mean to be disrespectful, what's the point of meditating on a rock for an hour if you become anxious merely at the thought of taking your children on holidays? Just a thought

Cheers

[Holoscientist]

I think that your most basic limiting belief is that kids fundamentally are a burden rather than a worthy sacrifice (and therefore in some sense not a sacrifice at all but part of our collective life-purpose - although perhaps we've got it all wrong about the perpetuation of society as a worthy purpose!). You've of course earned the right to wonder about this, as you do a lot of good in the external world.

The way I look at it, without children any society, no matter how enlightened, soon disappears. This is why the highest degree of self-growth is about learning not to be concerned with the self but to accept your kids as part of you. But this is just what you claim by the Subjective Reality model! Aren't your kids just a reflection of some aspect of you, and therefore by rejecting them as travel companions you are rejecting some part of yourselves...?

[michael.shearer]

Once you get there, it's no different than being at home, I feel...getting there is the biggest challenge. My wife had to travel from Colorado back to Maryland with our five year old and 16 month old and they boarded the plane and it didn't move for over 3 hours. The pilot was late and they weren't letting people get up to even go to the bathroom. My wife nearly flipped because my son was about to piss his pants and they were trying to get her to stay seated. That put a damper on future trip planning...next time, road trip!

[Nova]

Well, when I was a kid (a long long time ago) my parents took my on their travels together with my (3) sisters. The way they did it was going to a hotel where there were child animators. During the day we played with the other kids, while our parents went on their walks, visited museums and historic buildings,... Obviously there were other times were we went with our parents on a walk in nature. They didn't cover great areas though. They picked an interesting spot in a country, and stayed in that area for two weeks. I think that is better than expecting to explore an entire country in two weeks. At the end of the trip you will only know the insides of a bus. You won't have been able to connect with locals. Pick an area, and stay around long enough to really get to know it and the people that live there.

I wouldn't worry about Kyle. I remember I was an overly sensitive child myself. I cried or I was mad about the silliest things. My parents took me anyway on their travels. Things went fine. Sure there were episodes, but overall it all went fine. The child animators could handle me. If Kyle can handle preschool, why not traveling?

To be honest, I would have been more hurt if my parents wouldn't want to take me along with them. I wouldn't have felt accepted.

Ok, now let's make two Pavlinian arguments:
- The limiting fear is not leaving your children behind. The limiting fear is bringing them along. A fear that Kyle will act up and that you won't be able to do anything you like during travels. That is the fear that makes you stay at home.
- You expect Kyle will scream when you take him with you. He will scream. Power of manifestation. Expect everything to be fine. Everything will be.

[aking]

Hello!

One of the many things I've done in the past few years besides being an entrepreneur, is nanny. I have gone on trips with families who otherwise would not have been able to make it work without the extra hands.

I had absolutely no problems traveling with these people and it was great knowing that they were able to experience a whole lot more because I was there. I think it's a great idea!

I know I plan on doing the same thing when we have kids.

[garg]

I believe that one of the greatest factors that have most affected my personal development was traveling and living in multiple countries.

Living in different parts of the world really expands your awareness.

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by emf

My first thought was that you should travel with the children and a nanny but I think that was just my knee jerk reaction to Erin's misgivings about leaving the children. It was a fear based response. Leaving your children with loving grandparents for a few weeks will be a wonderful bonding experience for the kids and their extended family. As the kids discover they can trust and have fun with other adults they will become more independent and better travelers. It will also help Erin detach from her fear and ensure that neither of you begins to think of the children as obstacles to your personal growth. The cost of plane tickets for two children and a nanny can be excessive and, since one of your children is sensitive, there is a risk when trusting a non-relative with such a great deal of responsibility in a foreign country. They might be too harsh because they too will be under some stress. If you and Erin can travel to a foreign country for a week or three, and combine business with the thrill of experiencing the trip together, you should definitely do it. How lucky you are to have that option.

Maybe it's my own limiting beleifs, and I imagine thats what will be the reaction, but this is when I find personal growth goes too far. When you have children, isn't a huge part of your life to support those children?

I don't think that because they don't travel well you should exclude them. I also don't think that you should let it keep you from traveling. How can you motivate your extremely young children to come with you? Can you take them to Mexico or Canada with you and work them up to a longer trip?

These kids are young. If you're not going to be a Gen X Helicopter parent, which I hope you aren't, you don't have many years with them. At around sixteen or seventeen, it's done. They're not kids anymore. Ten years isn't very long. Experience everything you can with them!

[Hilary]

Um, yes, what pretty much everyone else said about limiting beliefs! Of course children can travel with you.

Before her marriage, my Mum loved hiking up mountains. Then she had children, who of course couldn't hike up mountains (especially since my younger brother is handicapped), so she stopped doing it. She and Dad devised child-friendly holidays instead (as international as they could afford). And I took all this completely for granted.

This is one of those occasions when I realise how lucky I was with my family. I didn't have model parents, of course (no such thing), but I had rock-solid security - and never knew it, because I never knew things could be any other way. I'd've been less surprised to see my parents grow two heads than to see them take off on holiday and leave me behind.

There were laws in my universe - things fall when you drop them, parents look after children, the sun rises in the morning, that kind of thing. My mind still boggles when I read Steve's post.

[belugagirl]

Hi, Steve--

I think you underestimate what fun it can be to travel with children. If there is one thing that people all over the world LOVE, it's kids. Having your children with you can break the ice with locals in a way that two adult Americans traveling alone cannot--that is, assuming that you want to interact with the local people in your travels and not merely "see the sights."

Certainly there are challenges, and not every day will be fun. Kids can get openly cranky. Adults traveling can get particularly cranky, too, but we manage it better. But for every nightmare day, there will be at least two of unforgettable fun and discovery. It might be worth the sacrifice of night-life for the times you will share with your little ones.

If you want to have the best of both worlds, I like the travel with a nanny idea.

And if you just want to let your kids "ripen" a little before you travel with them (which is not a bad plan, since they are fairly young and most likely won't remember much of the trip), pack 'em up and send them to their grandparents' house for a couple weeks! Of course this assumes that the grandparents are willing. What a great opportunity for them to bond (and for you and Erin to bond in your alone together time)! What's 300 miles? Why not start your travels with the airplane trip to grandma's house as a family, and then you and Erin can take off from there?

Happy trails!
Christina

P.S. I assume you were kidding, but--even though I got an involuntary chuckle out of it--please don't call it Kid Kennel. Children are not dogs. I wouldn't even leave my dog at a "kennel." Temporary residences for companion animals should be more like summer camp, not the other way around.

Peace!