I disagree with everyone who disagrees with me...

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Medea33

Well, there's a limiting belief.

I'm sick of simple observations about the world being morphed into "limiting beliefs." I like to ride the train rather than take my car to work. It's cheaper. I betcha somebody out there's going to call that a limiting belief.

[Medea33]

Originally Posted by VinceG

I'm sick of simple observations about the world being morphed into "limiting beliefs." I like to ride the train rather than take my car to work. It's cheaper. I betcha somebody out there's going to call that a limiting belief.

I won't argue with how you feel, but taking the train rather than a car is quite a different thing from not pursuing a passion - or a liberal arts education - because you think it's "too expensive" when it can't be quickly monetized. That strikes me as being a value rather than an observation, a value that has clear limitations.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Medea33

I won't argue with how you feel, but taking the train rather than a car is quite a different thing from not pursuing a passion - or a liberal arts education - because you think it's "too expensive" when it can't be quickly monetized. That strikes me as being a value rather than an observation, a value that has clear limitations.

It's not different. It's a preference, same as college. I think the real limiting belief is in thinking the only way you can get a broad, humanist education is through college. That's the only scenario where expense isn't an object.

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

*OP*

How incredibly juvenile.

[curiouslyrandom]

I've attended 3 different colleges and had three different majors. I was nearly done with a degree in Anthropology, but dropped out when my scholarship money ended. I figured if I had to go into debt to pay for my education, it wasn't fun anymore. And hey, I have kids to feed.

I view higher education as something people are best served by coming to on their own, not by being shoved into it straight out of high school, and it bothers me that I can't even apply for jobs I am more than qualified for, just because I don't have my B.A. yet.

[Medea33]

Originally Posted by VinceG

It's not different. It's a preference, same as college. I think the real limiting belief is in thinking the only way you can get a broad, humanist education is through college. That's the only scenario where expense isn't an object.

I'll go most of the way and agree that it's a limiting belief. Not one of mine, though, because I don't think college itself is an essential step for acquiring an educated mind. In fact, I sometimes think there are a few academic trends that are antithetical to the pursuit of one.

But if you get that college isn't the only way to educate yourself broadly, why is "too expensive" the justification for pursuing a career track? Wouldn't it follow that you could also educate yourself narrowly, which is what career training is?

It actually makes me a little cranky, this notion that people should major in something that will lead to directly to a career, because other options are impractical. The flaw in that thinking is the odd idea that life is linear. It's not, and whatever career you choose a mere 18 or 20 years after birth is unlikely to be fulfilling 25 years later unless you've chosen something you're passionate about in the first place.

Not only that, but if you're open to new experiences, you're likely to have several different and possibly unrelated careers. Accountants train pharmaceutical salespeople, computer technicians become CEOs, psychologists become dance teachers, MFAs become development officers. And those are just a few of the people I know.

[curiouslyrandom]

I went from Horticulture/Landscape Design to Theatre to Anthropology. Does that even make sense?! I just learn about things that interest me.

[Medea33]

Originally Posted by curiouslyrandom

...and it bothers me that I can't even apply for jobs I am more than qualified for, just because I don't have my B.A. yet.

Why can't you? Government agencies tend to be pretty rigid about insisting on all applicants meeting their requirements, however weird or draconian, but a significant proportion of private companies can be less rigid than their ads or recruiters seem to suggest.

You're clearly both bright and capable and I'd guess you could write a very short cover letter explaining why you're the best person for the job.

The process of getting hired always includes the elimination of objections, even those objections that are never made explicit. It's why you dress up for a job interview and research the company beforehand. Insisting on a BA is just another filter that companies use and the smart ones will ignore some of them for the right people.

[Medea33]

Originally Posted by curiouslyrandom

I went from Horticulture/Landscape Design to Theatre to Anthropology. Does that even make sense?! I just learn about things that interest me.

Yes. I do organizational development and interior design. Plus, I'm a small-scale farmer. Doing stuff that's interesting is like eating healthy food. You can make different choices, but ultimately it's not going to be good for you.

[iamnottheswami]

Steve chose to shake the snow globe on the sensitive-whatever elicited an autonomic emotional response should be examined ,no? I would tick down the ones that apply to me, but screw that.
I have a BA in English that hasn't helped me at all in the work world. I went to school majoring in having a good time on my own dime.Drinking, getting high(I played and sang in a punk band)...I took the Bluto Blutarski approach-seven years of college- and had a blast.I worked as little as possible for my 3.17-had I busted my ass, I'd be in the same place ...
Today, twenty years later ,I am modestly employed, sober 4 years, and adament
I would do nothing differently. All I heard was 'be ateacher,be aprofessor'...no thanks ,not interested.

Sometimes people need to lighten up and admit their desire to excel, not just survive...

Tom

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Medea33

But if you get that college isn't the only way to educate yourself broadly, why is "too expensive" the justification for pursuing a career track?

You don't get an education in order to pursue a career track. There are far easier ways of doing that. You get an education to enrich your life. Your education can consist of lots of different things. You can hole yourself up in your bedroom four nights a week reading Shakespeare. You can build an airplane. You can start a business. You can angel invest. You can travel Europe. You can work on a farm.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by iamnottheswami

Steve chose to shake the snow globe on the sensitive-whatever elicited an autonomic emotional response should be examined ,no?

I'm thinking it's Steve who had the autonomic emotional response.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Elrond

How incredibly juvenile.

How many of the categories apply to you, Elrond?

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Angela

How many of the categories apply to you, Elrond?

"spend more time on this site than their own site"

I don't have "a site".

"have never earned more than $50K in a year"

I'm 21 years old, in uni...

"post using handles because they're too chicken to use their real names"

Yes, I'm too chicken to use my own name.


WHY do you ask?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Elrond

WHY do you ask?

Because I think your matches on the "Especially List" get your criticism of the OP automatically invalidated and kicked out by the OP.

[a muse]

Originally Posted by Elrond

How incredibly juvenile.

Beyond juvenile... Infantile!

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Angela

Because I think your matches on the "Especially List" get your criticism of the OP automatically invalidated and kicked out by the OP.

It seems that you're assuming that I care whether or not the OP agrees with me or not.

So I guess whenever you post in a thread, and the OP disagrees with you, you reason that you're opinions have been invalidated, maybe even feel like you've wasted everyones time by bringing them up at all? And then you stop posting, seeing as that your opinions and beliefs are not in line with the OP, they are "invalidated"? That's a strange way of thinking, but OK.

[reiki717]

I guess I didn't get the "joke" if Steve was indeed joking. Just sounded a little...I don't know...holier than thou? People's life circumstances are all different and just because someone doesn't have a life like Steve's doesn't make their opinion any less valid.

But maybe he was just 'joking' and I don't get it.

[Angela]

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Elrond

So I guess whenever you post in a thread, and the OP disagrees with you, you reason that you're opinions have been invalidated, maybe even feel like you've wasted everyones time by bringing them up at all?

No. I reason that if an OP posts: "I disagree with and invalidate your disagreement with me, especially if you are a cat pushing a watermelon out of a lake," and I am, in fact, a cat pushing a watermelon out of a lake, if I disagree with the OP, the OP will disagree with and invalidate my disagreement.

I, personally, wouldn't consider that it would be invalid or a waste of time for a cat pushing a watermelon to bring up disagreement with such an OP. In fact, I find it kind of funny -- especially when there's earnestness present. Earnestness makes everything more funny.

[jayh]

At least for me, the original post made me realize that we all probably have lists of our own like this (with different items). If I'm being honest, I know I certainly do. Should I? I think I'm okay with it...

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by reiki717

I guess I didn't get the "joke" if Steve was indeed joking. Just sounded a little...I don't know...holier than thou? People's life circumstances are all different and just because someone doesn't have a life like Steve's doesn't make their opinion any less valid.

But maybe he was just 'joking' and I don't get it.

Well, I don't spend any time contemplating the things I disagree with him about, and I don't think I've made any of my disagreements known recently, so I didn't feel this was addressed to me.

But I did see that thread that very formally says "I disagree, Mr. Pavlina." I reckon I thought this thread was kind of a direct response to that, and, in being that, was half a joke with some kind of lesson entwined in it. If you read the first post of that thread, I think it was clear that the person who started it didn't know anything about Steve or what he does. It was a new person.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by reiki717

I guess I didn't get the "joke" if Steve was indeed joking. Just sounded a little...I don't know...holier than thou? People's life circumstances are all different and just because someone doesn't have a life like Steve's doesn't make their opinion any less valid.

But maybe he was just 'joking' and I don't get it.

Let's say someone comes up to you and says, "Reiki is a load of crappy crappola. It not only doesn't work, it's also harmful and dangerous and it's the cause of the situation in the Middle East, and you should stop doing it or talking about it, reiki717!"

Now, you happen to know that this person has never studied Reiki or had any first-hand experiences with it, despite your having patiently explained and giving demonstrations for free, for years. So maybe you think to yourself, "well, self, that person certainly does have a point of view, and it's not one I'm interested in taking on or even arguing with, because they don't have the experience or knowledge, or the willingness to experience or know, what reiki actually is from my point of view." And you say so, out loud, in your exasperation at that nincompoopery of the situation.

Funny, huh?

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Angela

No. I reason that if an OP posts: "I disagree with and invalidate your disagreement with me, especially if you are a cat pushing a watermelon out of a lake," and I am, in fact, a cat pushing a watermelon out of a lake, if I disagree with the OP, the OP will disagree with and invalidate my disagreement.

Again, it is strange to me to think that the fact that an OP would disagree with you, it would then invalidate your "disagreement". Do you only have a dialogue with the OP, whenever you post in a thread?

Originally Posted by Angela

I, personally, wouldn't consider that it would be invalid or a waste of time for a cat pushing a watermelon to bring up disagreement with such an OP. In fact, I find it kind of funny -- especially when there's earnestness present. Earnestness makes everything more funny.

And you're conversation with me is like an alligator pushing a hamster out of a volcano... or something. I don't know what your point is, that it is futile, weird,... funny? Are you assuming that I was only talking to the OP, that not everyone else was supposed to see my post? Maybe I was talking to everyone else who was watching the thread, also. Think about it...

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Angela

Let's say someone comes up to you and says, "Reiki is a load of crappy crappola. It not only doesn't work, it's also harmful and dangerous and it's the cause of the situation in the Middle East, and you should stop doing it or talking about it, reiki717!"

Now, you happen to know that this person has never studied Reiki or had any first-hand experiences with it, despite your having patiently explained and giving demonstrations for free, for years. So maybe you think to yourself, "well, self, that person certainly does have a point of view, and it's not one I'm interested in taking on or even arguing with, because they don't have the experience or knowledge, or the willingness to experience or know, what reiki actually is from my point of view." And you say so, out loud, in your exasperation at that nincompoopery of the situation.

Funny, huh?

The only thing funny about this thread is that it shows how much it matters who says something, for how it will be recieved and interpreted by many.

[James81]

I wrote Steve off because of this post. Then I had some watermelon.

[Mounds]

This post goes to show you why other people shouldn't be idolized. Steve posts something, pretty much everyone identifies with something on the list he and people who would normally not get upset over anything get up in arms.
I think it's one of those "acting outside of expectations" things. Almost everyone identifies or has identified with something on this list. SP is considered to be successful by whatever standards (monetary, developed, ect.) and therefore his opinion matters. Then it becomes "I am x and Steve disagrees with anyone who is x therefore there is something wrong with me".
I identified with two or three things on the list and I can't be bothered if some guy in California who I've never met disagrees with me based on random facts. It would be hypocritical for me to complain about it because I disagree with Lindsey Lohan, Kate Gosselin and the cast of Jersey Shore.
And another thing! Is it me or is Steve Pavlina becoming a spectacle?!? He's like a dancing monkey on a stage and when he does a dance certain people don't like, then the crowd starts throwing tomatoes. Here's his objection and sure enough, some people in the crowd are throwing produce. Trust me on this one, when you take on the view that everyone is on the same level as you, then it's tough to actually care when they make a post that could be seen as unreasonable. It's just as easy to not care.

-Tim

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by Elrond

The only thing funny about this thread is that it shows how much it matters who says something, for how it will be recieved and interpreted by many.

We have a winner!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Elrond

Again, it is strange to me to think that the fact that an OP would disagree with you, it would then invalidate your "disagreement". Do you only have a dialogue with the OP, whenever you post in a thread?

And you're conversation with me is like an alligator pushing a hamster out of a volcano... or something. I don't know what your point is, that it is futile, weird,... funny? Are you assuming that I was only talking to the OP, that not everyone else was supposed to see my post? Maybe I was talking to everyone else who was watching the thread, also. Think about it...

I understand that you were making an announcement, of sorts, and although it was directed at something the OP said, you meant for it to be read by everyone else who is watching the thread. Your announcement, "How incredibly juvenile," is something I would construe as a "disagreement" with the OP, one that has something in common with the posts of the recently banned member who, I believe, inspired this OP.

Why it's funny is, to use a metaphor, it's like if someone (let's call him "Elrond") is invited to a party at the home of someone else (let's call him "Steve"), and Steve says, look, I just had my bouncers kick out a guy who ate a bunch of appetizers and drank up the booze, and then announced loudly, "Steve's wrong and stupid and here's why!" I don't agree, Steve continues, with that guy's disagreement, especially since he hasn't demonstrated the qualities that would have me respect his opinion -- in fact, he has demonstrated qualities that make me reject his criticism as valid.

And then Elrond, a person who has some of the same qualities that Steve has just announced would make him discount the validity of that person's criticism, comes into the party, munching on a raw crudite, guzzling the liquor, and announces to the room at large about Steve's announcement, "How incredibly juvenile!"

You don't see the humor in that?

[VinceG]

Have some watermelon, Mounds!