I disagree, Mr Pavlina

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

This is, of course, manifest nonsense. Science is a people driven activity, like all human endeavor, and just as subject to fashion and whim. In this case fashion is set not so much by choice of subject matter, but by the way scientists think about the world.

Climategate anyone?

(runs for cover).

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Meai

Hi, I just read one post from him and he's already wrong.

The best first sentence I have ever seen on a forum by a poster. And I'm not being sarcastic.

[Acting Like Godot]

There is a popular misconception that science is an impersonal, dispassionate, and thoroughly objective enterprise. Whereas most other human activities are dominated by fashion, fads, and personalities, science is supposed to be constrained by agreed rules of procedure and rigorous tests. It is the results that count, not the people who produce them.

This is, of course, manifest nonsense. Science is a people driven activity, like all human endeavor, and just as subject to fashion and whim. In this case fashion is set not so much by choice of subject matter, but by the way scientists think about the world.

Not only that - science is dictated by money.

Scientific research requires money. The money can come from different sources - eg corporations; governments; university administrators; philantropic donors.

All these entities want to have a say in where their money is going and how it is going to be applied. All of them have their own missions, priorities and ideas.

------------------------

I'm often amused by arguments that run along the lines of:

"Up to today, scientists have found no proof of [insert paranormal phenomena] and most scientists do not think that it is true."

Usually the person does not realise that:

"Hardly any scientists have actually done any research on [insert paranormal phenomena]. Therefore whether they think that it is true or not carries as little weight as whether your grandmother thinks it's true or not."

[Mounds]

These guys have been at it for over a century and they still don't have something tangible!

Society for Psychical Research - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Hemlock]

Another fun Feynman quote, "I believe that a scientist looking at non scientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Only sort of related, but still fun!

On a side note, paranormal things are quite interesting, but I think I've avoided looking into them much for 2 reasons,

1) I seriously wonder how much of such things are a matter of brainwashing yourself until it's real to you. At which point I don't know how you'd ever know or be able to get back again.

2) I'm still trying to figure out this reality as it is, though I suppose if I'm playing life with only a view of half the playing field that could slow up my progression in understanding even the everyday parts.

And on a side note I think the way the sciences are run is silly. Scientific procedure idealized, is dandy. The scientific industry reminds me of the government in the united states.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Mounds

These guys have been at it for over a century and they still don't have something tangible!

Society for Psychical Research - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"..... they still don't have something tangible."

That just happens to be your opinion. I couldn't find any justification for such a view, in the link you provided.

On the other hand, if you actually check out their website, you'll see abstracts of the many papers that they've published, about many interesting experiments they've done.

Come to think of it, some of these are experiments that I've mentioned in these forums, from time to time.

[TheSolipsist]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

It is extremely unlikely that you can read any one post about subjective reality and grasp the concept.

This is irrespective of whether you would actually agree with the concept or not.

It's extremely unlikely that Meai will be able to grasp any of the concepts being discussed here regardless of how much reading he/she/it does.

[Meai]

You know, I was religious once. I believed in most of the crap that is talked about here.
It's funny how religious people always assume that the other side "just doesn't get it" or doesn't make enough effort to.

[Acting Like Godot]

LOL .... I, for one, am not religious.

[Parthon]

You know, I used to be an Atheist once, I believed in most of the crap they talked about.

It's funny how Atheists always assume that the other side are deluded, mistaken or even stupid and need to be saved from their beliefs by the "One Truth".

1) You need to give up your views before you can experience another.
2) Belief without experience is impossible.
3) Religions, Atheism and even Subjective Reality are just beliefs. We are humans and live in a sea of beliefs. There is no one truth for us. There's scientifically provable physical phenomenon inside of the belief of science, but that too might exist in another layer of undiscoverable potentiality. We just wouldn't know.

Steve and the people on this board are not stupid or mean as you keep trying to point out. They are just trying their best to present to you a view, a new view that's not common out there in the world. The Objective Truth is a belief held by a lot of people, but that doesn't mean it's correct.

Heh, and I just realised that the "Oh Crap" moment is when the only way to any truth whatsoever is to give up the dogmatic view that humans can possess any kind of truth whatsoever.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Meai

You know, I was religious once. I believed in most of the crap that is talked about here.
It's funny how religious people always assume that the other side "just doesn't get it" or doesn't make enough effort to.

Therein lies your problem. A religious person who becomes atheist is just as fanatical no matter which side they are on. All you did was switch your position from, "I believe there is a God and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong" to "I believe there is no God and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong". Well, you're wrong either way. Tee hee.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Meai

You know, I was religious once.

So, what was your brand of religion?

Me, I'm a recovering Holiness Pentecostal...yet born into a Catholic home with Catholic family. So I got a big ole honkin dose of both extremes of christianity growing up.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Parthon

It's funny how Atheists always assume that the other side are deluded, mistaken or even stupid and need to be saved from their beliefs by the "One Truth".

Ahem.

[Meai]

Therein lies your problem. A religious person who becomes atheist is just as fanatical no matter which side they are on.

That's also what always happens: People automatically assume you are an atheist, when you don't believe in anything. And no, I'm not telling simply because you would already know if you had any clue about anything because there is only a single other system left.
And please meet someone who is really a fanatic. Maybe look in the mirror. Because you sure jump to conclusions very fast. I bet you are convinced as hell.

LOL .... I, for one, am not religious.

A believer in something then, it's all the same. And for the record: I didn't even say you are. Did I pinch your non-religious feelings?

Steve and the people on this board are not stupid or mean as you keep trying to point out.

Steve and the people on this board are stupid!
(see? after I actually write it, your sentence makes so much more sense!)
/hurt feelings ftl

edit: And if you didn't realize it: I stopped trying to have a discussion because it's not possible here. You can close this thread anytime if you want.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Meai

Steve and the people on this board are stupid!

You're on this board.

[Parthon]

Originally Posted by Meai

edit: And if you didn't realize it: I stopped trying to have a discussion because it's not possible here. You can close this thread anytime if you want.

The rest of us are having a plenty good time in this discussion. Just because you don't want to participate, that doesn't mean we can't.

Why so antagonistic?

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by James81

You're on this board.

Lmao! He's a special non-stupid person on this board.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Lmao! He's a special non-stupid person on this board.

I was just watching "The Shawshank Redemption" -- "Everybody's innocent in here!"

[cylon]

I'm not really into changing my beliefs just because someone else might wish they lived in a world where everyone agreed with only them. Good luck with that one. There is too much variety in the world to try to actively convert people to your side, or to try to be a missionary (they're really the same thing though). They have to come of their own free will or they will resent you. This is why "OMG, you people are so stupid" arguments don't win many converts.

You have your beliefs, I have mine, they don't have to compete. We can both go about our lives without our belief systems interfering with each other. Plenty of room for all of us!

[Shariku Onikage]

And so the poor boy is banned it appears.

Gotta feel sorry for him though. Feels like the poor guy (or girl, it was never actually said) wasn't arguing at us by the end of it. I feel he was trapped in the whole religious people verses atheist people debate and just wanted to argue his point over and over.

A shame he didn't go beyond that though and instead just liked to repeat how wrong we all were, even when people seemed to accept some parts of his argument.

Part of me just wonders if he didn't understand. He constantly blabbed about people not making sense and did mention English not being his first language, even though he seemed to write it fine.

Alas...

[a muse]

Why was he banned? I don't think he said anything offensive unless of course he was right!
pmsl

[Angela]

Originally Posted by a muse

Why was he banned? I don't think he said anything offensive unless of course he was right!
pmsl

Same reason anyone else gets banned, I reckon -- for breaking the forum rules they had agreed to follow in posting here.

[a muse]

Do you mean this please Angela
Do not troll - "Trolling," i.e. posting inflammatory, off-topic, highly immature, or insulting messages to provoke a reaction from others, is completely unacceptable and will result in your account being promptly banned.

or did he whine? lol


Actually, isn't the subject of this thread a loose example of trolling?

[James81]

Originally Posted by a muse

Do you mean this please Angela
Do not troll - "Trolling," i.e. posting inflammatory, off-topic, highly immature, or insulting messages to provoke a reaction from others, is completely unacceptable and will result in your account being promptly banned.

or did he whine? lol


Actually, isn't the subject of this thread a loose example of trolling?

He called Steve (and all his members) "stupid."

Let me rephrase that....

He called the owner of the forums (and all his members and the work he spends hours and hours upon)..."stupid."

Are you really asking why he was banned? Maybe a better question would be...why wasn't he banned a whole lot sooner?

[lookcloser]

Why is a muse banned now?
Lol I get all curious when I see a banned member, I try looking if they posted anything 'controversial' recently. Heh, me being nosy

[Angela]

(s)he started a food fight.

[st33med]

Originally Posted by Angela

(s)he started a food fight.

*throws purple potatoes around the forum*

[lookcloser]

Originally Posted by Angela

(s)he started a food fight.

Where was I then?!! ...Ugh I always miss all the fun

[James81]

Originally Posted by lookcloser

Why is a muse banned now?

I think he got banned because the mods, like me, kept thinking his username was "a mouse" and not "a muse", and when they realized that there was a mouse loose in the forums, they had to get rid of it.

[st33med]

Originally Posted by James81

I think he got banned because the mods, like me, kept thinking his username was "a mouse" and not "a muse", and when they realized that there was a mouse loose in the forums, they had to get rid of it.