I disagree, Mr Pavlina

[James81]

Originally Posted by Meai

Oh I fully expect it. People don't like the truth, they just like talking about how cool it would be to have it or that they already have it.

LOL! The TruthTM (see av for more details)

After being on a gigantic crusade for "The Truth" in my own life, I've discovered a lot things about the nature of truth, and I'll share what I've learned with you:

1. The "truth" is relative. We make a lot of truths up, and we do it for lots of reasons, but the most common reason is for protection/survival/coping of some kind.

2. The truths you claim for another (that is, "people don't want to hear the truth") are really just truths that touch on something inside of you. A pervasive need to share the truth with others is kind of like a "Service Engine Soon" light on a vehicle...it means take a look inside of yourself to see why you need to push the truth onto others.

3. The truth feels like a need we have to create meaning for our lives. Without truth, our lives feel meaningless or hollow in some way. So, the reason why people object to YOUR "truth" has little to do with their tastes and more to do with the idea that you are threatening their very MEANING for living. The reason people don't react well to "the truth," is because THEIR truths define who they are. And that definition comprises everything they use to manage their life in this world (survival, protection, etc.).

My thoughts are that if you want to be honest/truthful with people, it helps a lot to do it in a way that isn't so brashly in their face, harsh, or detailed--such as when you quote every little detail of a blog post as if you are taking each point to task for validity.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Meai

In summarry I see no real point in your argument. Yes, there is much we don't understand yet and our science might be flawed in many areas. But how is making stuff up (= SR) going to help?

If the intention is to generate something or think about something that helps (and in what way do you mean "going to help") I do wonder how it is that you are part of a solution.

Trying to believe a concept like SR may not help, you are right.

It maybe that all ideas of models of what reality are bogus. ALL of them. Even science. Just models for approximating reality.

Kill the Buddha when you see him on the road along with all sacred cows now!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by James81

LOL! The TruthTM (see av for more details)

After being on a gigantic crusade for "The Truth" in my own life, I've discovered a lot things about the nature of truth, and I'll share what I've learned with you:

1. The "truth" is relative. We make a lot of truths up, and we do it for lots of reasons, but the most common reason is for protection/survival/coping of some kind.

2. The truths you claim for another (that is, "people don't want to hear the truth") are really just truths that touch on something inside of you. A pervasive need to share the truth with others is kind of like a "Service Engine Soon" light on a vehicle...it means take a look inside of yourself to see why you need to push the truth onto others.

3. The truth feels like a need we have to create meaning for our lives. Without truth, our lives feel meaningless or hollow in some way. So, the reason why people object to YOUR "truth" has little to do with their tastes and more to do with the idea that you are threatening their very MEANING for living. The reason people don't react well to "the truth," is because THEIR truths define who they are. And that definition comprises everything they use to manage their life in this world (survival, protection, etc.).

My thoughts are that if you want to be honest/truthful with people, it helps a lot to do it in a way that isn't so brashly in their face, harsh, or detailed--such as when you quote every little detail of a blog post as if you are taking each point to task for validity.

Ain't it the truth?

I've noticed, too, that the more urgent the need for the other person to get it, the more clear a sign it is that this message is for the messenger.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by James81

1. The "truth" is relative. We make a lot of truths up, and we do it for lots of reasons, but the most common reason is for protection/survival/coping of some kind.

If it's true that "truth is relative" - then THAT statement is the absolute truth. hahaha

[James81]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

If it's true that "truth is relative" - then THAT statement is the absolute truth. hahaha

I went down that rabbit hole yesterday, actually.

If the truth is relative, then saying the truth is relative is true. But if that's true, then the truth isn't relative. But if the truth isn't relative, then how can I ever know it?

*brain overheats*

The truth must be relative. But if it's relative, then it's not relative that the truth is relative.

FUUUUUU

Who's on first? What's on second? Fuuuuuuuck.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by James81

I went down that rabbit hole yesterday, actually.

If the truth is relative, then saying the truth is relative is true. But if that's true, then the truth isn't relative. But if the truth isn't relative, then how can I ever know it?

*brain overheats*

The truth must be relative. But if it's relative, then it's not relative that the truth is relative.

FUUUUUU

Who's on first? What's on second? Fuuuuuuuck.

I am so LOLing!!!

[curiouslyrandom]

Originally Posted by Angela

Ain't it the truth?

I've noticed, too, that the more urgent the need for the other person to get it, the more clear a sign it is that this message is for the messenger.

And THAT is what makes this the thread of the week in my opinion.

[Angela]

My brother has a saying that makes me laugh: "The madder you are, the wronger you probably are."

[Savage]

I wonder what kind of muffin I'll eat this morning while learning more about why I'm wrong. Interestingly, the local organic grocery store in Kelowna is called Choices.

I'm thinking banana nut. Now that's a good muffin!

[anusha]

Originally Posted by Meai

That's like saying "I don't agree that 1+1 = 2. In my opinion it isn't."
Nonsense.

Thats NOT like saying i don't agree that 1+1=2. You're motive is to prove something wrong just Because You don't Think its right.

[James81]

You're wrong, Mr. Steve! Here's why:

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I wonder what kind of muffin I'll eat this morning

The fact that you are wondering about a muffin means that you must not be wondering about other, more important things. Thus you are objectively focusing on the kind of muffin you're going to eat and not on, say, people starving in third world countries.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

while learning more about why I'm wrong.

If you're learning more about why you are wrong, then you are becoming right. So you can't learn more about why you are wrong, because you can't be both right and wrong at the same time. It would rip a hole in the fabric of the universe and allow little imps to seep through and destroy all that is good and right and holy.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Interestingly, the local organic grocery store in Kelowna is called Choices.

Kelowna, if you say right, sounds like "Clown-a"...and if you're just clowning around rather than enjoying your dream, then you must be wrong. But if you are learning that you are wrong, then you are right...hole...fabric...imps. Your fault.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I'm thinking banana nut. Now that's a good muffin!

Everybody knows that blueberry muffins trump banana nut muffins.

[James81]

Yes, sometimes I post just to hear the sound it makes as my fingers clack across my keyboard.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I wonder what kind of muffin I'll eat this morning while learning more about why I'm wrong. Interestingly, the local organic grocery store in Kelowna is called Choices.

I'm thinking banana nut. Now that's a good muffin!

you are what you eat!!

[James81]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I wonder what kind of muffin I'll eat this morning while learning more about why I'm wrong. Interestingly, the local organic grocery store in Kelowna is called Choices.

I'm thinking banana nut. Now that's a good muffin!

LOL

You tripped me up there.

Now, make a suggestion to me and I'll probably believe it.

[Shariku Onikage]

I'm so glad this ascended into absurdism (seriously). It was getting to the point where i couldn't tell if he topic writer guy was just being incredibly sarcastic over his whole argument or he honestly believed the things that were contradicting themselves.

I'm going to go eat waffles until i'm no longer fit and healthy.

[curiouslyrandom]

I think I have some gluten-free vanilla glazed donuts left in the freezer, but I might make a pumpkin or apple pie instead... Subjectively, of course.

[cylon]

One site that discusses subjective reality down, 900 gazillion to go.

Criticize Them All!™

[Meai]

So there is only One Truth™?

The fact that I believe in objective truth should tell you that. And if you jump onto the word "believe" now, please reread the whole thread.

If you really aren't interested in SR, why start a thread just to say you disagree? I don't mean to say that, you did a stupid thing, I just want to know your real motive in posting the thread.

I said it initially already: Because I like to discuss. If I say that it's a hobby, can you believe that? I also think that it would be cool if SR existed and astonishing that people actually do.

Look Mr Pavlina, I'd appreciate it if you didn't post anymore unless you have something of actual value to contribute. Right now you animate members of this board to post spam. It's killing the discussion, and with the attitude you present, I have to assume that this is your intention. Which makes you what? You can put a label on that yourself.

[SethWilliams]

Originally Posted by Meai

Look Steve, I'd appreciate it if you didn't post anymore unless you have something of actual value to contribute. Right now you animate members of this board to post spam. It's killing the discussion, and with the attitude you present, I have to assume that this is your intention. Which makes you what? You can put a label on that yourself.

You do realise this is his message board don't you?

And nope, I don't think he animates the members of this board to do anything. Its there own choice to post what they post.

Love Seth

[curiouslyrandom]

Originally Posted by Meai

Look Mr Pavlina, I'd appreciate it if you didn't post anymore unless you have something of actual value to contribute. Right now you animate members of this board to post spam. It's killing the discussion, and with the attitude you present, I have to assume that this is your intention. Which makes you what? You can put a label on that yourself.

Last time I checked, this was Steve's forum, and you came here specifically because of something he "contributed".

Here, have a donut. I promise there's no spam in it.

[Meai]

Last time I checked, this was Steve's forum, and you came here specifically because of something he "contributed".

erm yes? You are stating the obvious.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Meai

Right now you animate members of this board to post spam.

(you just animated me to post SPAM too)

[anusha]

and you're still not getting it.

[curiouslyrandom]

Look Mr Pavlina, I'd appreciate it if you didn't post anymore unless you have something of actual value to contribute.

You don't seem to think his site has any content worthy of your time, yet you insist he come out swinging to defend his position. Why?

I certainly applaud your tenacity to stick with this, but I do wonder what your point is.

[Meai]

Look guys, forget it. I have posted on a lot of religious / alternative forums, but I have never seen this kind of hostility.

It's fine by me if you don't want a discussion. I can say I tried.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by Meai

Look Mr Pavlina, I'd appreciate it if you didn't post anymore unless you have something of actual value to contribute. Right now you animate members of this board to post spam. It's killing the discussion, and with the attitude you present, I have to assume that this is your intention. Which makes you what? You can put a label on that yourself.

I find his postings of great value. He is out, enjoying life with his girlfriend, while you're here, arguing. It's like the folks who criticize unschooling. They say it's unbelievable, that no one can learn that way, that we're horrible parents... meanwhile, my kids and I are very, very happily living our lives. I think his statements speak for themselves.

Of course, my finding of value is completely subjective.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Meai

but I have never seen this kind of hostility.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by Meai

It's fine by me if you don't want a discussion. I can say I tried.

The possibility exists, that because SR has been discussed here ad nauseam, and your points are not unique or original or well thought-out at all, that folks don't feel the need to give you their time or insight. If you're unwilling to read the other discussions on the forum and do a little bit more research until you come to some understanding of what you're discussing, why should folks take their time to answer your queries?

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by Meai

Look Mr Pavlina, I'd appreciate it if you didn't post anymore unless you have something of actual value to contribute. Right now you animate members of this board to post spam. It's killing the discussion, and with the attitude you present, I have to assume that this is your intention. Which makes you what? You can put a label on that yourself.

Yikes, controlling much?

[curiouslyrandom]

Originally Posted by Meai

Look guys, forget it. I have posted on a lot of religious / alternative forums, but I have never seen this kind of hostility.

It's fine by me if you don't want a discussion. I can say I tried.

It's not hostility that you are experiencing from any of us, it's humor. Most people familiar with subjective reality are pretty happy with life and feel no need to put the hammer down on others.

I must say this a hundred times a day, but...

Reeeeelaaaaax. None of this is as real as you think it is.

p.s.-- it's not much of "discussion" for you to come to a place where people exchange ideas and tell us we're all wrong wrong wrong. You are entitled to your opinions, as are we. Don't be surprised if we don't take you too seriously. Most of us have already been where you are now and moved on.